Hot Weather Woes

[Phx Fusion Energi]

I was extremely dismayed to find out that this really expensive car, purchased explicilty to be able to commute all-electric, will not run in ev-only mode in hot weather (i.e. several months of the year in Phoenix :( ).  Apparently Ford didn't like putting the stress (?) on the batteries when the weather is slightly on the warm side.  Haven't found the trigger point.  I know it very easily switched to gas drive when the temp on the car instruments was 106.  Does OK at 90.  So far my commute that I'd hoped to be all-electric is coming out about half gas, half electric no matter how gently I accelerate when the temp is in the 106 range.

Edited June 11, 2013 at 05:23 PM by Phx Fusion Energi

[Russael]

I know it's inconvenient and somewhat annoying, but I do think it was smart engineering to keep the batteries temperature controlled to increase their longevity.  106 is really hot.  Batteries do best around 74 degrees.  Where your car may run in hot weather, mine is going to run in really cold weather.  I'll do what I can to precondition the car to maximize the EV range I can get out of it, but since I don't have a plug here at work, I'll probably be running the engine when it's below freezing (which it is between December and early April).  You can always pre-condition your car before you leave (if you're plugged in) and crank the A/C to 65 degrees or so, which should hopefully cool the batteries sufficiently for more EV driving, since it uses cabin temperature for heating/cooling.

[howardbc]

Wow, I am also in the Phoenix area but haven't noticed the car switching to hybrid/ICE until the batteries are depleted for EV Auto. The EV range has not changed since I got the car in early April - min-22/max-30 EV miles. But this is a problem I have been expecting with the insanely high temps here in the Summer. I haven't been conditioning (running the a/c before I leave home) my car yet but maybe I should. The car appears to be doing the regen thing well too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[howardbc]

Just now, on the status display (outline of car), I got the message that the engine was running because of battery temperature. I haven't seen that message before. It was 106 degrees outside but the battery appeared to have used all the EV miles it had stored before it went into hybrid/ICE mode. 

 

I always leave my car plugged in all the time. Noticed the charging port door was open when I came out of the supermarket. I think it may open on its own.

 

I was thinking about checking into having one of those solar roof wind turbines installed on the flat roof over my garage. Maybe it would help a little with the heat buildup in the garage. At least it would circulate the air. Right now I've got a box fan running out there but there is no place for the hot air to go. I can't leave the  garage door open. A snake or something else will come in, plus I live in an HOA where they frown upon open garage doors. Anyone have a better idea to keep the garage interior as cool as possible? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Russael]

Anyone have a better idea to keep the garage interior as cool as possible? 

 

 Without some other form of active climate control (air conditioning or a heat pump), no.

 

The only other things I can think of are a white roof and white siding to reflect heat... doing the solar attic fan as you mentioned is good but if it's 106 outside, all you're going to do is move 106 degree air around.

Edited June 12, 2013 at 12:39 AM by Russael

[Earthdog]

I was extremely dismayed to find out that this really expensive car, purchased explicilty to be able to commute all-electric, will not run in ev-only mode in hot weather (i.e. several months of the year in Phoenix :( ).  Apparently Ford didn't like putting the stress (?) on the batteries when the weather is slightly on the warm side.  Haven't found the trigger point.  I know it very easily switched to gas drive when the temp on the car instruments was 106.  Does OK at 90.  So far my commute that I'd hoped to be all-electric is coming out about half gas, half electric no matter how gently I accelerate when the temp is in the 106 range.

 

You are lucky here in Atlanta I have the same issue as you but starting at around 82. Currently Ford is shipping a expanded OBD to try and record more data on the issue. You need to report the issue to the Dealer via the Zone Manager.

 

I think there realize that this is a bigger issue for many people. Get with Ford and help give them the data so we can get a solution. Even if the solution won't work for you and I we can help make the car better.

 

Also checkout the thread in the Battery Section "Hybrid on Due to Battery Temp"

Edited June 18, 2013 at 01:35 AM by Earthdog

[Energized]

I was extremely dismayed to find out that this really expensive car, purchased explicilty to be able to commute all-electric, will not run in ev-only mode in hot weather (i.e. several months of the year in Phoenix :( ).  Apparently Ford didn't like putting the stress (?) on the batteries when the weather is slightly on the warm side.  Haven't found the trigger point.  I know it very easily switched to gas drive when the temp on the car instruments was 106.  Does OK at 90.  So far my commute that I'd hoped to be all-electric is coming out about half gas, half electric no matter how gently I accelerate when the temp is in the 106 range.

 

In order to prevent battery capacity loss like what's happened with the Nissan Leaf, the Energi lowers the batteries use when the batteries are outside a range of 32-113ºF.   This is not the outside air temp, this is the temperature of the batteries. When the vehicle is running and the climate control is on, the batteries are cooled (or warmed) to stay within that range.  A car sitting in the sun for a long period will be hotter inside than the outside air temp and it would take a while to cool the interior and the batteries.

 

The Nissan Leaf doesn't have the option to switch to an engine to propel the vehicle when the temperature is outside a set range, so the Leaf just suffers whatever battery capacity loss might occur.  Personally I would rather have long term battery life in exchange for a lowered use of the battery in some conditions.

 

 

Nissan Leaf owners claim AZ desert heat saps batteries http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/07/nissan-feelin-the-heat-for-degrading-leaf-batteries-in-arizona/

[mczajka]

I noticed over the weekend in 80 degree temperatures that my battery fan was going on when I got into the car when it was parked outside in the sun. The fan would also go on when I was stopped at a traffic light. This was after the battery had been depleted earlier in the day. I haven't had the car go into hybrid mode yet because of the heat.

 

Previously, I only heard the fan go on in my garage when the car was charging.

Edited June 24, 2013 at 02:40 PM by mczajka

[howardbc]

Question: If the EV setting is on "EV Auto," is it safe to pre-cool the car with the garage door closed? If just the electric motor is running, there shouldn't be any carbon monoxide, right? 

 

I haven't been pre-cooling the car - even in tremendous (up to 119 degrees) heat here recently. I have noticed that my EV miles showing on the battery icon drop immediately (and considerably) once I unplug it and turn on the a/c, so I guess I should have been doing the pre-cooling with the plug still connected all this time.

 

I guess it would be safer to open the garage door but just thought I'd ask. Thanks.

[Russael]

If you remote start your car and you aren't on a dead battery, the gas motor should not start while plugged in... but it could if it is insanely hot/cold outside and you're not plugged in.  I remember one person somewhere here in the forums mentioned that his motor DID start while plugged in... can't remember what the circumstance was.

 

The status of your EV mode should not matter.  You can also set your remote start climate mode to either what your last setting was on the MFT, or you can override it in another menu and set it to something in there, which can be different than what you had your normal controls set to.

[larryh]

There is no guarantee that the engine will stay off when you remote start the car, even if the car is plugged in.  If the battery is low, the car is plugged in, and the charger cannot supply enough power, the ICE will probably turn on.  It turned on for me once when the car was plugged, the battery was low, and I had the heater on.  The 120 Volt charger could not supply enough power to run the heater, and the battery could not make up the difference, so the ICE turned on.  I had the car in "run power active" mode, where you don't press the brake pedal before pressing the start button. 

 

If it is 119 degrees, the battery may be too hot to run the air conditioner.  The ICE would have power the air conditioner if the car cannot get enough power from the charger.  The air conditioner can consume up to 5 kW of power, just like the heater.  The 120 Volt Charger can only provide about 1.3 kW when charging.  The 240 Volt Charger can provide about 3.3 kW while charging.  I'm not sure if the car can consume more than 3.3 kW to run the air conditioner (provided the charger can provide the power).

 

To prevent the engine from starting, you would have to get your Go times to work.

Edited June 30, 2013 at 07:30 PM by larryh

[howardbc]

Thanks, everyone. Even as I was typing my question, a little voice was saying to me "You big dummy. Of course you should open the garage door!"

 

I've never done the remote start using MyFord Mobile. Couldn't I just go out into my garage (with the key) and start it that way? To pre-cool it? By the way, it will run when it's 119 degrees outside, because that's what it's been doing, although I wouldn't want to take an 8-hour drive when it's that hot. 

 

I could kick myself now, thinking of all the EV miles I lost for not pre-cooling while plugged in. Well, I'm learning. 

 

Thanks again.

[howardbc]

Ok, just before I left the house this morning I opened the garage door, got into the driver's seat with the key and started the car to cool it down while it was still plugged in. It started the cooling process but it didn't like it (various warning messages) and it soon cut the a/c off even though it was still plugged in. In fact I think the engine powered down too. So that idea of mine didn't work.

 

Is there a way to pre-cool the car via MyFord Mobile for just a few minutes prior to driving away? I don't want to set a recurring "On" time for every day. 

 

The a/c is really good and it doesn't take that long in the morning to cool the car down, but I just thought maybe I could save the EV miles by cooling it down while the car is still plugged in. When the MyFord Mobile app tells me the battery is charged, it will show something like 30-32 miles on the battery, but after I cool it down for just a few minutes, I am down to 24-25 EV miles. 

 

Any suggestions? Or am I just being greedy? 

[Russael]

Just open the garage door and remote start the car (lock, start, start with the keyfob).  It should run for up to 15 minutes (depending on how long you set the auto-off part).  I've had the car shut off on me too while 'starting' it with it still plugged in.

 

One thing got my attention from your post - you were plugged in and the motor DID start?  Or were you just hearing the A/C compressor buzzing away?

[larryh]

Do you have the SE or the Titanium version of the Energi (you mention keys)?   You would have to use MyFord Mobile to do a remote start if you have the SE version.  You could just turn the car on, without starting it, with the charger plugged in.  I would expect the climate control to work and draw power from the battery (at least it does on mine).

Edited July 2, 2013 at 09:34 AM by larryh

[Russael]

I completely forgot that the SE has keys and doesn't come with keyfob remote start.  My bad.  But as larryh mentioned, you can still remote start the car through the MyFord app.

[howardbc]

Hi. I have the Titanium. I really totally forgot about using the keyfob. Like my previous car (Prius), I put the key in a pouch and dropped it in my pocketbook and it's been there since Day One. 

 

So you're saying that the car will know just by using Russael's instructions to turn the Max a/c on? That would still use some of the EV battery's charge, right? Hmm ... I might try but it makes me a little nervous. The heat here (Phoenix) in the Summer is just an unavoidable fact and there's no getting around it. 

[Russael]

Hi. I have the Titanium. I really totally forgot about using the keyfob. Like my previous car (Prius), I put the key in a pouch and dropped it in my pocketbook and it's been there since Day One. 

 

So you're saying that the car will know just by using Russael's instructions to turn the Max a/c on? That would still use some of the EV battery's charge, right? Hmm ... I might try but it makes me a little nervous. The heat here (Phoenix) in the Summer is just an unavoidable fact and there's no getting around it. 

 

There are 2 climate settings for remote start.

 

1.  It will use your last climate control temperature that you set on the MFT, whether you left the system on or off (default setting).

 

2.  The car will automatically set a 72 degree temperature through the left menu of the instrument cluster (AUTO mode), which ignores your MFT climate setting.  Once your car is in run mode, the MFT temperature takes over.

 

If you're on 120v, it will most likely use a little battery to get the temperature to where it needs to be quickly, but once it dials back to maintain, a little energy will go back to the battery as it seems the A/C will only consume about 750 watts once the blower drops to low.  I used the A/C a couple times when it rained and it was hot, and initially, it consumed some 3kw, but after a few minutes, it dialed back to 750 watts or so.  Even so... sacrificing an EV mile or two is a small price to pay to stay in EV mode longer. :)

 

From the Manual (page 129 - 130):

 

REMOTE START (IF EQUIPPED)

The climate control system adjusts the

cabin temperature during remote start.

You cannot adjust the system during

remote start operation. Turn the ignition

on to return the system to its previous

settings. You can now make adjustments.

You need to turn certain

vehicle-dependent features back on, such

as:

• heated seats

• heated mirrors

• heated rear window.

You can adjust the settings using the

information display controls. See

Information Displays (page 84).

 

Automatic Settings

You can set the climate control to operate

in AUTO mode through the information

display setting: Remote Start > Climate

Control > Heater-A/C > Auto. The climate

control system automatically sets the

interior temperature to 72°F (22°C).

In hot weather, the system is set to 72°F

(22°C).

In moderate weather, the system either

heats or cools (based on previous

settings). The rear defroster, heated

mirrors and heated seats are not

automatically turned on

 

In cold weather, the system is set to 72°F

(22°C). The heated seats are set to high

(if available, and selected to AUTO in the

information display). The rear defroster

and heated mirrors are automatically

turned on.

 

Last Settings

You can set the climate control to operate

using the last climate control settings

through the information display setting:

Remote Start > Climate Control >

Heater–A/C > Last Settings. The climate

control system automatically uses the

settings last selected before the vehicle

was turned off.

 

Heated and Cooled Devices

The climate control system controls other

heated and cooled devices inside the

vehicle. These devices (if available, and

selected to AUTO in the information

displays) may also be switched on during

remote start. Heated devices are typically

switched on during cold weather, and

cooled devices during hot weather.

 

 

Page 84 stuff (didn't come out very pretty... it's a chart)

 

Settings (cont’d)

Menu level 2 Menu level 3 Menu level 4 Menu level 5

Heater: – A/C Auto / Last

Settings

Vehicle (cont’d) Remote Start Climate Control

Front Defrost: Auto / Off

Rear Defrost: Auto / Off

Driver Seat: Auto / Off

Passenger Seat: Auto /

Off

Duration 5 / 10 / 15 minutes

Quiet Start On / Off

System Enable / Disable

Edited July 2, 2013 at 08:12 PM by Russael

[mczajka]

Really would appreciate it if any of you running in 80 degree plus temps. can tell me if your battery fan goes on when you a driving? Specifically when you stop at a traffic light or stop in traffic. Thanks! One said it doesn't, but I want to get more feedback.

[howardbc]

Hi, mczajka. I'm in the Phoenix area so the temps are brutal here this time of year. My Titanium is doing great - even when the temp hit 119 degrees. All I have noticed is a message on the main display that the engine is on due to the battery's temperature. This message usually stays on until I get home and turn the car off. I haven't recorded at what temp the message comes on, but it has to be when the temp is well over 105-110. If it's coming on for you when the temp is 80 degrees, you might want to have it checked out, although the higher humidity where you live could be a factor.

 

I'm not driving the car for long periods during this heat but still long enough to get to the grocery store, mall, doctor appointments, lunch, etc. The message never says that it is an alert or anything serious - just that the engine is on due to high battery temp, so I assume that means the ICE is making the fan to come on.

 

Good luck to you. 

[larryh]

It is 93 degrees today.  Yes, the battery fan in the rear is on when I am driving.  It is not very loud, so it is difficult to hear.  Have to turn off climate control, ignore a noisier fan or something else from under the hood, and wait for all the other cars to go away.  I would expect that it would stay on while the car is on or charging and be off otherwise, since charging and discharging the battery is what generates the heat. 

 

The battery fan should not be causing a problem with the 12 volt battery while driving or charging.  At these times, the 12 volt battery should be charging if things are working properly.  If they stayed on for a long time while the car was off and not charging, that would be a problem.

 

Are the battery fans very noticeable on your car when you stop at a stop light?  In my car, you would not know that they are on unless you really tried hard to detect them and the environment is very quiet.

Edited July 18, 2013 at 08:36 PM by larryh

[Russael]

It hit 95 here in Michigan today.  I drove 20 miles (10 miles to the dealership to get a gift for my brother who just got himself a new car... mud flaps. :)) all in EV mode, no climate, windows down, sound system jammin.  Never heard any fans at all until I plugged it in, then the charging fan started up but the battery fan remained off.  Didn't hang out very long to see if the battery fan kicked on or not.

[mczajka]

Are the battery fans very noticeable on your car when you stop at a stop light?

 

Yes. They only go on when the car has stopped. They will even kick on when I get near the car with my keyfob and touch the doorhandle. I'm surprised they go on before I push the start button. I think these fans have a few modes, and the one I appear to be hearing is the higher mode.

Edited July 19, 2013 at 11:39 AM by mczajka

[jeff_h]

It is 93 degrees today.  Yes, the battery fan in the rear is on when I am driving.  It is not very loud, so it is difficult to hear. 

 

Are the battery fans very noticeable on your car when you stop at a stop light?  In my car, you would not know that they are on unless you really tried hard to detect them and the environment is very quiet.

 

We checked ours too, same condition that yes the rear fan is on while driving but is tough to hear, need to have the AC fan and radio turned down to hear it. 

 

Did I read in another thread here somewhere that there are two fans in the rear area?  If so, maybe the small fans are running on our cars during operation (tough to hear) while Mark's car has the larger fan running (easy to hear at stop light)?

 

We will check again today where it will be just as hot as yesterday, the above was wife's report (I asked her to listen while driving) but today we are taking a drive together and I'll listen while driving to check the sound.

[Russael]

We checked ours too, same condition that yes the rear fan is on while driving but is tough to hear, need to have the AC fan and radio turned down to hear it. 

 

Did I read in another thread here somewhere that there are two fans in the rear area?  If so, maybe the small fans are running on our cars during operation (tough to hear) while Mark's car has the larger fan running (easy to hear at stop light)?

 

We will check again today where it will be just as hot as yesterday, the above was wife's report (I asked her to listen while driving) but today we are taking a drive together and I'll listen while driving to check the sound.

 

There are 2 fans, and they're physically the same size.  From the way I see it, there's the battery fan (driver's side) that takes cabin air from the rear deck and exhausts it in to the trunk space under the foam tool bin.  The passenger side fan seems to take trunk air (from the same location... the battery fan exhaust and charging fan intake are about 8 inches from each other) and push it through the battery charger when it's plugged in, and that exhausts behind the passenger side rear seat near the bottom in the cabin.

 

The Hybrids themselves only have 1 fan that takes cabin air and exhausts in to the trunk.