Fob Problems

[jcoop513]

I just got my Fusion Energi Titanium a few days ago, and I've had nothing but software problems with it so far.  The biggest problem I've had is with the keys not working.  When leaving the garage in the morning, it always seems to work perfectly.  Whenever I'm away from home, however, there's been about a 60-70% chance that the fob will fail at the very least to let me in the car.  When it fails, the first indication is that I can't just grip the door handle to get in.  A little more than half the time when that doesn't work, the buttons on the key don't work to unlock the doors or trunk either.  I've been forced to use the keycode on the door to get in multiple times now.  At least that works, so I don't have to pry open the casing on the key to get the metal key inside, and then dismantle the doorhandle to access the hidden keyhole...

 

In addition, when the fob doesn't seem to be working externally, most of the time the keyless ignition won't work in the car either.  I'm forced to stick the fob in the center console to start the car.  Thankfully, that method has yet to fail on me, but I'm certain it will eventually.

 

I had it serviced the first time it happened (the day after I bought it).  The technicians at the dealer couldn't replicate the problem, so they were going to give it back to me.  However, when I went to pick it up, the problem happened again, and I was able to demonstrate it.  They found a TSB related to the problem (13-4-4: http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/pubs/content/~WT/~MUS~LEN/3570/tsb13-04-04.htm), and supposedly applied it by reprogramming 2 modules related to the intelligent access.  It seemed like it was fixed the first 20 hours or so (the first 3 times I started the car, it worked), but the problem just keeps happening now.  I'm taking it back to the dealer to be looked at again, in addition to some other weird software-related issues I've been having (sync crashing at least daily while driving, value charging schedule being ignored, etc).

 

Am I the only one with this problem with the fob?  Has anyone else had this happen and gotten it resolved?

Edited May 7, 2013 at 06:30 PM by jcoop513

[murphy]

Do both fobs do this? 

You don't have both fobs in your pocket do you?  I would expect two fobs transmitting at the same time to be a problem.

 

It could be a week battery in the fob. 

 

I have not had any problem with mine.

[Russael]

Question...  are both fobs doing this consistently or just one of them?  I don't see mention of trading fobs or alternating them to see if it was isolated to one or both.

 

And Murphy beat me by mere seconds. :)

 

I wouldn't think both fobs together would cause an issue... after all, if both spouses go somewhere together, it isn't like one of them is going to leave their keys at home.

Edited May 6, 2013 at 07:06 PM by Russael

[jcoop513]

When I was trying to drive away from the dealer's the first time, I had both fobs with me.  We experimented using both fobs; moving one far away, and trying with each one at a time.  In all cases, we were able to get the message: "No Key Detected" when trying to start the ignition.  Note: this was before the reprogramming, so I haven't done the 2 key test since.

 

I normally just bring one key with me, so when it fails away from home, I can't test with the other one to see if it works any better.  These fobs are gigantic so carrying around both of them all the time is somewhat impractical.  It appears to be more of an issue with the car's hardware/software than with both fobs malfunctioning the same way.  I've tried waving the keys around (always keeping them away from other wireless devices), pressing the buttons in various combinations, etc.  I haven't done any MyKey programming (I think that's what it's called) on either of them, in case anyone was wondering.  I get decent range on the key when the car is responding to it, so I doubt it's a battery issue.  Besides, as I understand it, the fob part of the key is supposed to be able to function without the battery; the battery is for the longer-range button controls.

,

I've only had the car for a few days, and when it happens, the car is always (coincidentally?) sitting in the sun for at least 10 minutes, so I don't feel like spending time in the heat figuring out why it suddenly stopped working.

 

I appreciate the help.  Hopefully the dealer will actually figure out what's going on when they take it back tonight (though I'm highly skeptical at this point).  I'll report back if I find out anything for anyone else having this problem.

[TX NRG]

rjent has a similar problem on this FFH thread http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/6603-no-key-found/

[jcoop513]

Yeah, that's the same problem I've had other than there not being mention of door unlock functionality issues.

I've seen similar mentions of the problem with other Ford cars:

http://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/11082-no-key-detected-and-car-wont-start/

http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/120-5th-6th-gen-electronics-security-audio-visual/169808-no-key-detected.html

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=259729

...

 

I'm thinking this is a widespread defect that crops up in a small percentage of cars with no good way to diagnose it since it's so intermittent.

 

It's at the dealer now, and I haven't heard anything from them yet this time. It didn't happen to me last night when I drove it to the dealer. I had both fobs with me, it was cool and cloudy out, so it hadn't been sitting in the sun this time. It's still probably a coincidence, but I'm trying to keep track of possible environmental causes at this point. For all I know, this is caused by a defective IC or microcontroller that's got a temperature tolerance that's too sensitive or something.

Edited May 7, 2013 at 06:51 PM by jcoop513

[jcoop513]

I just got my car back today.  The service technicians apparently couldn't duplicate my problem despite having it for 3 days.  When they handed me the keys, I was able to produce the problem immediately when I tried to enter the car.  With both keys present, I was unable to use the handle sensors to lock/unlock or start the engine with the push-button start until I placed one of the keys in the center console slot.  The remote buttons again failed to lock/unlock the doors for about 10 seconds, then both started working just fine all of the sudden.  The sensor problem went away after that as well.  After it started working, I was able to trigger the problem again by very quickly opening and closing the door (it was open perhaps 2 seconds), then attempting to lock it with the handle again.  Once it was failing, it persisted until the lock button on one of the remotes was used to eventually lock it (after 15 clicks or so). 

 

This time, I demonstrated this to 3 people including the saleswoman who sold me the car, and one of the technicians.  They are apparently finally going to get on the phone to call the Ford hotline, and I'll hang on to my car for the time being so that I can stop driving these terrible loaners.

 

I fail to see how they were unable to reproduce this problem...  Perhaps they only ever tested it with test equipment hooked up, which prevented the issue from happening?  Although, I must admit that no matter how many times I've tested this in my garage, the problem never seems to occur (either plugged in or not).  In any case, I'm going to push for them to either fix it quickly or give me another car.  I saw my very reliable trade-in on display sitting on the showroom floor today just to rub it in even more...  This is getting ridiculous.  I'm a very unhappy customer.

Edited May 10, 2013 at 12:07 AM by jcoop513

[Russael]

I don't blame you.  I had an issue with my remote start with my Expedition when I first got it.  It would intermittently just crank and crank and never start.  I took it to the dealership SEVEN TIMES, and EVERY TIME I took it there, it worked fine.  The 8th time, I made 2 techs come out and wrestle with things and they finally knocked something loose and were able to replicate it (it was the key sensor override).

 

Now, 14 years later, the remote start doesn't realize the car is running and doesn't release the starter once the truck is running, and the first time it did this, it tried to start the truck while it was already running... nice crunching sound during the second crank attempt.  Needless to stay, I pulled it.  I rarely used it as it was, so bye bye piece of junk. :)

[Mr. Fusion]

This just happened to me today leaving work.

 

I held the unlock button down to lower all the windows as I approached the car. That all worked fine.

 

Then as I tried to start it, I got the "key not detected" message.

 

I tried everything. Lock, unlock... key fob was dead. Now I'm panicking. I get the owners manual out and it says to put it in the console pocket, and that works.

 

I pulled the keys out and put them in the cup holder as I drove away and got the key not detected message again so I put them back in the console and I got home.

 

Manual said sometimes things, like a cell phone can interfere with it. Seeing as though the lock/unlock button didn't work, I'm not buying it.

 

Also, my express up/down loses it's memory often. May be time to take it in...

 

No clue how that pocket even works....

[Energized]

Also, my express up/down loses it's memory often. May be time to take it in...

..

That's happened to me as we'll. It only happened on the front windows, not the back. How frequently do your windows lose their memory?

[Mr. Fusion]

Never the back for me either. I lose the driver side about once a week. Only lost the front passenger side once.

[jcoop513]

Sorry to hear that Mr. Fusion.  This is quite a frustrating problem, indeed.  From what little I've been able to read, placing the fob there is supposed to be as good as plugging in a cable directly from the car into the circuit in the key fob.  If anyone knows more information, I'd appreciate looking at an article, schematics, whatever.  What I've read on the topic amounts to advertising material, and I haven't been able to find more.  I suppose I could read more about it on motorcraft.com (maybe), but I think I'd need to buy a subscription, and whatever info they have may not be worth it.  I've also had that issue with the No Key Detected showing up when you take the key out of the center console.  I put it right back, like you did, but I think the car should get you to your destination with occasional annoying reminders about the key until you either put it in park or turn off the ignition.

 

After taking it in for the fourth time earlier this week, I got them to tell me they think the RTM (radio transceiver module) was bad.  Based on the name, that's probably where I would have started looking...  They are ordering another one, and I am able to continue driving it until they replace it.  Hopefully, that's all it is.  I'll report back when I get it replaced.  The problem has actually been getting worse over time.  The keys work less often than they used to, and I even got it to fail in my garage a couple times the last couple days (where I could never seem to get it to act up).

[jcoop513]

I just wanted to give a quick update.

 

The part came in, and they replaced it yesterday.  After replacing it, I'm told they experienced the problem again today while getting it ready to give back to me, so that's not the fix for this particular issue.

It is pretty hot today, so maybe that's why they were able to get it to happen without me being there.  There does seem to be a fairly strong correlation between failures and the temperature...

[Mr. Fusion]

It did it to me the last 2 days after work. 3 times total. Each time I had held in the unlock to roll down all the windows.

 

82 degrees yesterday, 91 today.

[murphy]

Rolling down all of the windows at the same time puts a significant load on the 12 volt battery.  It would be interesating to open the trunk and connect a voltmeter to the 12 volt battery and observe how low the voltage goes while the windows are in motion.  If it goes low enough it may cause the car to go into battery conservation mode.

[Km4304]

I live in Las Vegas and its been in the upper 90's all week. This no key detected has been happening everyday. The only way I can get into my car is to use the keypad that's located on the door. I'm sure this is a heat related issue. At least I can still start the car by placing the key fob in the center console. Hope they find a fix soon.

[Russael]

Haven't had any issues with this problem just yet.  Warmest it's been is high 80's for me.  However, the interior temperature of the car was pretty high when I got in to it to head home from work.  I bought white to try to keep that under control (as a secondary reason... I saw the car originally in white and knew I had to have it in that color).  Temps are going to fall back in to the upper 70's, low 80's over the next 5 days, but I know it'll get lava hot sooner than later.

[jcoop513]

I picked up my car this morning.  They said it was fixed.  Apparently, a new TSB came out on this issue yesterday or this morning.  From what I have been able to find out here: http://www.vrep.fordtechservice.dealerconnection.com/vdirs/oasis/oareq.asp?broadcast=ON&from=

it should be called TSB 13-05-32.  If anyone knows where I can find it, please let me know.

From what little I was told, it was just another reprogram of the modules with new calibration software.  Hopefully it works.  I should know within a few days.

 

My guess is that the issue Mr. Fusion is having is probably coincidentally linked to the window roll-down issue.  It might possibly be related, but my guess is that's the procedure he happens to follow when approaching the car especially on hot days.  After I found out about being able to roll the windows down that way, I was experiencing the same problem with the handle sensors/startup at about the same rate.  Usually, I would just walk up to the car without trying to fish the keys out of my pocket though, since that's sort of the main reason for the touch sensors and push-button start in my mind.

 

I'm also thinking for those that haven't experienced this problem, that it probably won't happen to you.  If it does start happening, though, it seems more likely to happen on hot days.  It's not a guaranteed condition for failure though.  I hope it doesn't start happening.

 

Anyway, I'll report back on whether it appears to be fixed or not.

[Mr. Fusion]

I hope you're all fixed up. My windows losing the express up/down is very annoying. The "key not present" is scary, but luckily I'm not stranded.

 

If yours is fixed, I'll schedule service.

[Sterlinggray]

6 days after getting the car we have experienced the "no key detected" problem. My wife have spend over an hour on the phone with the Ford tech trying to get it to start again but no luck. Funny thing was the tech told us they have never seen or heard of this issue after looking through their data base. But I just did a simple search on the web I was able to find a link to this article as well as the same problem found in other Ford vehicle.

 

Anyways I started to do some troubleshooting of my own, and at first I was suspecting the two key possibility but I can't seems to dupercate the issue consistently. The other suspicion I have is that the night prior to this issue happening I had just brought a USB flash drive and I loaded with music files and put it into the car. During troubleshooting I pulled out th USB and the car started fine. But again, I can't seems to pin point this at this time with just one try, so I am going to drive the car without the USB for couple of weeks unless this issue happens again without the USB in it.(then I know it is not the USB) If after a couple of weeks and nothing happens, I will put back the USB and see if the "no key found" issue will come back.

 

If anyone else have similar experience or any hints or clues, please post and share. I believe if this is happening with enough of us, and with sufficient leads we can probably find the root cause faster than Ford can. (Unless it is really a software issue)

 

By the way I thought about bring it to the dealer to see if they can help, but after reading all the posts I also didn't see the point of that if I can not reproduce the problem consistently.

[Mr. Fusion]

6 days after getting the car we have experienced the "no key detected" problem. My wife have spend over an hour on the phone with the Ford tech trying to get it to start again but no luck.

So putting the key fob in the little pocket in the console didn't start the car?

[Mr. Fusion]

This just happened to me today leaving work.

I held the unlock button down to lower all the windows as I approached the car. That all worked fine.

Then as I tried to start it, I got the "key not detected" message.

I tried everything. Lock, unlock... key fob was dead. Now I'm panicking. I get the owners manual out and it says to put it in the console pocket, and that works.

I pulled the keys out and put them in the cup holder as I drove away and got the key not detected message again so I put them back in the console and I got home.

Manual said sometimes things, like a cell phone can interfere with it. Seeing as though the lock/unlock button didn't work, I'm not buying it.

Also, my express up/down loses it's memory often. May be time to take it in...

..

clue how that pocket even works....

The saga continues.

It happened to my wife yesterday. 80 degrees and she unlocked by pulling on the handle.

So this proves it's not my individual fob and not related to rolling down all Windows with the fob.

[jcoop513]

The situation has definitely improved with the new TSB: http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/pubs/content/~WT/~MUS~LEN/3586/tsb13-05-32.htm.  I'm no longer receiving the "no key detected" issue, but a couple times when it's been really hot out, I've noticed the car's beeped at me while getting in the car.  I think it's the beep that happens when you try to lock the car while the key is inside; a double beep.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  It's like there's a phantom hand on the door handle as I get in the car (sometimes).  This is a much more annoying problem.  However, the same increase in sensitivity means that when it's raining, the door handles go crazy locking and unlocking in the rain when I'm near the car.  This is the same issue as this topic: http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/903-door-handle-touch-locks/.  I can no longer assume that when I lock it when near the car, it will stay locked as I walk away.  This seems to be a pretty serious security issue.  Anyway, I'm going to try to figure out what's going on, and how often it happens before I talk to the dealer again.

 

The key issues from before happened regardless of a USB device plugged in.  The only difference is that if I plug in my android phone to the USB to charge, it is pretty much guaranteed to crash and reboot SYNC.

Edited June 6, 2013 at 02:13 PM by jcoop513

[Km4304]

The situation has definitely improved with the new TSB: http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/pubs/content/~WT/~MUS~LEN/3586/tsb13-05-32.htm.  I'm no longer receiving the "no key detected" issue, but a couple times when it's been really hot out, I've noticed the car's beeped at me while getting in the car.  I think it's the beep that happens when you try to lock the car while the key is inside; a double beep.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  It's like there's a phantom hand on the door handle as I get in the car (sometimes).  This is a much more annoying problem.  However, the same increase in sensitivity means that when it's raining, the door handles go crazy locking and unlocking in the rain when I'm near the car.  This is the same issue as this topic: http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/903-door-handle-touch-locks/.  I can no longer assume that when I lock it when near the car, it will stay locked as I walk away.  This seems to be a pretty serious security issue.  Anyway, I'm going to try to figure out what's going on, and how often it happens before I talk to the dealer again.

 

The key issues from before happened regardless of a USB device plugged in.  The only difference is that if I plug in my android phone to the USB to charge, it is pretty much guaranteed to crash and reboot SYNC.

 

Thanks for the information. I'll be taking my fusion in soon.

[jcoop513]

So the TSB did seem to solve the problem with the "no key detected" and the handles being unresponsive.  At least it doesn't seem to have happened since I got it back.  The car beeping at me was the key button being pressed in my pocket as I got into the car (I think).  I'm still trying to verify that for sure.  Now that the car is actually responding to key presses, the gigantic key with the huge buttons that are easy to accidentally press is revealing that hidden problem.  The sensitivity is a definite an issue in the rain, but something I can deal with.  Three times now I've noticed the car has unlocked itself as I've walked away from it in the rain.  I just need to remember to pull out my remote and lock the car after walking away if it's raining out.

 

Now I just need to find a small box or solid cover to put the key in so the buttons don't get pressed in my pocket...  That was a terrible design. It happened to me maybe once every couple years with the last key remote I had...

 

Those of you having issues with the key not working may be successful if you take it to the dealer, though.  Let us know if it works for you.  Good luck.