Hybrid Motor on due to Battery Temp

[Energized]

The Energi employs control strategies to keep battery cell temperatures within 32-113ºF.  If temps are below 32ºF, the system will work in a reduced EV mode until the cells get warmed up.

 

From what Earthdog showed in the video, when it was 115ºF in the trunk, it appears the control strategy reduces the amount of EV draw that can occur until the battery temps fall within the 32-113ºF range.   If a car has been sitting in the sun and it's hot outside, I imagine it will take a while for the battery to be cooled below 114ºF for unrestricted EV operation.

[larryh]

You might want to read the following CMAX Energi thread which discusses battery temperature and the ICE turning on:  http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/1293-scangauge-x-gauges-programming-c-max-ffh/

 

Also, the following article:  http://ev.sae.org/article/11705

[Earthdog]

You might want to read the following CMAX Energi thread which discusses battery temperature and the ICE turning on:  http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/1293-scangauge-x-gauges-programming-c-max-ffh/

 

Also, the following article:  http://ev.sae.org/article/11705

 

Very interesting information. I am sitting in the Dealer this am waiting for the Zone Manager. Always nice to have more info.

[Earthdog]

Well that was fun the Zone Manager basically petted me on the head and was very condescending. After him viewing several of your comments they are going to do some through testing. I have asked for copies of the testing and the Tolerance Temps of the batteries. We shall see...  

[Earthdog]

Well just wanted to give an update. The Dealer was finally able to replicate the issue and the car produced a code of P0D8F. As a result they had to completely disassemble the battery pack and install a new S0BDM Module. The best description is this module reads the temp from the batteries. 

 

Cross my fingers!!!

[larryh]

I hope that fixes the problem.  If the temperature sensor is not working correctly, the battery could overheat and be damaged.  At least yours was erring on the safe side--declaring the battery was warmer than it was.  I wonder if there is an easier way for one to read the battery temperature than connecting a ScanGauge to the OBD connector.  Ford should provide a diagnostic mode either on the console or MyFord Touch display to view information such as that.  I guess you can monitor the Empower screen on the console.  The blue outline should normally encompass four-fifths of the range. 

Edited June 21, 2013 at 03:14 PM by larryh

[pluggedin]

Our temps in Tucson have been around 105 degrees for a few weeks now and my ICE is being forced on regularly (sometimes before I even back out of the garage), which in turn is killing my MPG's. If the ICE needs to run to keep the battery within Ford's preset temperature range so be it, but now I am wondering if my SOBDM module is bad too.

 

If changing the module in Earthdogs car works for him I may have to consider a trip to my dealership to have some tests run.

 

One other thing that keeps happening, that didn't happen prior to it getting hot, is my windshield wipers will cycle on and off all by themselves, with not a cloud in the sky. Usually only once per trip...anyone else having that happen?

[Russael]

I personally haven't had any irregularities except with the MFT (sometimes the radio audio won't come back after the backup sensors beep).

 

With 105 degree temps that you're experiencing, I'd say it's functioning as it should.  Keep in mind the Leaf that had all kinds of issues in your locale due to no cooling with the battery.  About the only thing I could recommend is setting your go time temperature to 65 to freeze yourself out and then you may be able to drive some distance before the ICE kicks in since it uses cabin temperature.  The car seems to keep the go time temperature and your climate temperature separate, so once you unplug, your climate setting will take over (I THINK).  I keep my climate control off, but I do have a go time temp set.  Once I go outside to unplug my car, I can hear the climate system running, but once I pull the plug, it shuts down.

 

If you were driving a Focus Electric, I'd bet the A/C would be running constantly to keep the batteries within tolerance.

 

Problem is you live in an extreme temperature zone (extreme heat).  I live in an area that is fairly moderate, although it can get in to negative temperature numbers in the middle of winter (lowest I remember is somewhere around -20F).  High temps rarely go over 100 but they do on occasion.  It's supposed to be in the 90's this week, so I'll be plenty uncomfortable.  Since my work office has been temporarily moved to home, I have no need to drive anywhere now except when I go to the grocery store or go visit someone.  Funny.  Got a new car and now no reason to roll around in it.  Meh.

[pluggedin]

I drove the car about 90 miles, round trip, today in 105 degree temps and the ICE was never forced on. Go figure. Many of those miles were in EV Later but when I switched to EV Now, it stayed there.

 

I may have solved the windshield wiper mystery though. Just before I entered the freeway the wipers cycled on and off once so I pulled over to turn the auto wiper function to off. But when I chose off the wipers came on full time. That confused me at first but when I moved the wiper lever down one notch they stopped. So somehow I had the wiper lever in the wrong position :doh:.

 

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it :confused: .

[Russael]

I drove the car about 90 miles, round trip, today in 105 degree temps and the ICE was never forced on. Go figure. Many of those miles were in EV Later but when I switched to EV Now, it stayed there.

 

I may have solved the windshield wiper mystery though. Just before I entered the freeway the wipers cycled on and off once so I pulled over to turn the auto wiper function to off. But when I chose off the wipers came on full time. That confused me at first but when I moved the wiper lever down one notch they stopped. So somehow I had the wiper lever in the wrong position :doh:.

 

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it :confused: .

 

You have the driver assist package, right?  That includes the auto window wipers.  If you were getting intermittent wipes, check to make sure the glass is clean in front of the camera.  I think it uses that to detect rain (manual mentions a sensor but not the location of it).  Keeping the wiper stick all the way down should be off, first notch is automatic for driver assist, intermittent timed without (or if you turn autowipers off), which is where you apparently had it.  Try adjusting the sensitivity.  2nd notch should be regular wiping speed, and the 3rd notch should be high wiping speed.

 

As far as you not having your ICE kicked on during your last trip... were you driving around with the A/C running and was your car cool on the inside before you started your trip?  From what I saw in the CMAX forum, the battery temp threshold is 115 degrees, so you're teetering right on the threshold when your ambient temperature is over 100.

[pluggedin]

You have the driver assist package, right?  That includes the auto window wipers.  If you were getting intermittent wipes, check to make sure the glass is clean in front of the camera.  I think it uses that to detect rain (manual mentions a sensor but not the location of it).  Keeping the wiper stick all the way down should be off, first notch is automatic for driver assist, intermittent timed without (or if you turn autowipers off), which is where you apparently had it.  Try adjusting the sensitivity.  2nd notch should be regular wiping speed, and the 3rd notch should be high wiping speed.

 

As far as you not having your ICE kicked on during your last trip... were you driving around with the A/C running and was your car cool on the inside before you started your trip?  From what I saw in the CMAX forum, the battery temp threshold is 115 degrees, so you're teetering right on the threshold when your ambient temperature is over 100.

Pushing the windshield wiper lever all the way down (A, in the owner's manual and notch 1 for me) is a single wipe function and that is spring loaded to bring the lever back to a neutral, or off position (0 on the lever) at notch 2. The 3rd notch (B) is for intermittent wiper;

the 4th notch © is for normal wipe and the 5th notch (D) is for a high speed wipe.

 

There were a couple of things I had set wrong on the wipers. I had somehow bumped the lever into notch 3, which is both the intermittent setting AND the "on" position for the Autowipers when the Autowiper function is set to on. I also had the sensitivity for the Auto Wiper function set to maximum and those two things, I am going to assume, caused my wipers to cycle on their own. And, as you suggest, even though I clean the windshield before I leave the garage daily, the system must have seen something on the windshield that it thought was rain and cycled on.

 

As for the ICE being forced on, that is also random. Even though our temps have been between 100 and 105 degrees during the day, our night time temps are around 70 degrees; it was 70 degrees this morning at 6 am. Even with temps at 70-85 degrees in the morning, the car has forced the ICE to come on as soon as I started the car in the garage and remains on, no matter where I have the EV button set to. And yes, I usually have the A/C running when I start the car. What I have not done, while it has been hot, is precool the car before I leave. That's not always possible though, since some of my local trips are a the spur of the moment thing, but I'll give that a shot. 

 

So there are times, like yesterday, when it was already over 100 degrees when I started my trip (hit 105 during the trip) and the ICE was not forced on at all, while at other times, when the temps are under 90, the ICE is forced to come on...even at speeds under 50 MPH. Makes one wonder. 

[Russael]

Yeah, I wasn't counting the spring back notch (the single wipe feature) as anything.  But as you mentioned, you had your sensitivity cranked to max so the system was false tripping.  If you turn your auto wipers back on and dial that back, you should be able to keep the stick at intermittent/auto wipe without it tripping so much.  Still, you're in AZ... I wouldn't expect you guys to get a whole lot of rain as it is. :)

 

For me, I'm a huge fan of aquapel and rainx, so even in a downpour, I still don't use my wipers.  The water just goes away.

 

Addressing your ICE being turned on with the varying temps...  Not sure.  If it were 85 degrees outside and your car was in the garage with the ICE forced on... that's odd (maybe not so much if you had just recently completed a charge).  If your car was sitting in the sun, even in 85 degree temps, the trunk area can get quite warm... red absorbs a fair amount of sunlight as heat, plus with a black interior it makes it even worse.  My white car even gives me a blast of heat when I open the door in 85 degree sunshine weather.  It's supposed to get up to 86 today for me (reduced from 90) but it's going to be really humid.  I'm getting more and more tempted to tint the windows to try to keep some additional heat out.  I'm surprised it didn't come with tint for at least the rear doors and rear window from the factory.  My Expedition did.

 

A way to precondition your car is to remote start it if you typically leave your climate control on when you turn off the car.  Or, if you turn it off, you can override that setting in the left menu of the instrument cluster.  It's default is 'last setting' or you can force it on to a temperature you choose up until you climb in and actually start the car, then your original settings will take over.  Even 5 minutes should help.  Just trying to throw out some suggestions to keep the gas in your tank. :)

[BadRock]

Today I finally experienced this for the first time. Kind of odd as this wasn't one of the hotter days for us. I think it was 96°F when this happened but I have driven several times in 100°F+ days without issue.

 

One thing I noted is that typically in "EV" mode the EV icon is blue under the battery, today it was yellow when this occurred.

 

[pluggedin]

Today I finally experienced this for the first time. Kind of odd as this wasn't one of the hotter days for us. I think it was 96°F when this happened but I have driven several times in 100°F+ days without issue.

 

One thing I noted is that typically in "EV" mode the EV icon is blue under the battery, today it was yellow when this occurred.

 

Badrock, if you are not using recirculated air for the A/C, try that. I was using outside air and when I switched to recirculated air it seemed to help keep the car in EV Now and the engine off. Worth a try.

[larryh]

You can read some C-Max Energi users experience with this at:  http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/1400-clipper-creek-lcs-25-with-dryer-plug-install/page-2

 

Apparently, battery temperature increases rapidly with higher speeds.

[Markn455]

Very interesting information. I am sitting in the Dealer this am waiting for the Zone Manager. Always nice to have more info.

For what it's worth, I live just north of Atlanta and commute to Norcross. I have had my Energi for just about three weeks. I suspect I am driving mine in the same conditions you are. I have not experienced the symptoms you describe. Everything seems to be working as expected.

 

Mark

Ball Ground, GA

[Markn455]

Well just wanted to give an update. The Dealer was finally able to replicate the issue and the car produced a code of P0D8F. As a result they had to completely disassemble the battery pack and install a new S0BDM Module. The best description is this module reads the temp from the batteries. 

 

Cross my fingers!!!

Fantastic. I hope that is the problem.

 

 

Mark

[Griff]

I would only get this problem if I charged it on the rapid charger, while it was hot outside and then immediately began to drive it at highway speeds. It would wait until about the 18th mile and then it would kick on. Its happened twice over 15 or so drives.

[Earthdog]

I would only get this problem if I charged it on the rapid charger, while it was hot outside and then immediately began to drive it at highway speeds. It would wait until about the 18th mile and then it would kick on. Its happened twice over 15 or so drives.

The Battery Temp and a Level 2 Charger shouldn't be an issue unless it just finished charging. Have you tried Preconditioning since you have a Level 2 charger?

[Griff]

The Battery Temp and a Level 2 Charger shouldn't be an issue unless it just finished charging. Have you tried Preconditioning since you have a Level 2 charger?

It would happen when I would use a level 2 charger for 2+ hours and then immediately drive it. Pre-conditioning is not possible because its a pitstop at a public charging station. There's nothing like getting a text telling you your car is done. :)

[Russael]

It would happen when I would use a level 2 charger for 2+ hours and then immediately drive it. Pre-conditioning is not possible because its a pitstop at a public charging station. There's nothing like getting a text telling you your car is done. :)

 

I believe it is possible - just remote start your car when it's done using the app (if you're not in fob range) or the fob itself (this is also assuming you're driving a Titanium) and it will automatically use either A/C or heat to bring the temperature to your last climate setting, whether you left it on or not.  Leave it go for 5 minutes and you should be good.

 

This is, of course, assuming that the public charging station will turn itself back on once charging is done.  I don't see why it won't - it wasn't disconnected from your car and I'm sure the charger knows that.  I've never used one yet, but I will sometime in the not too distant future.  You'd know more about that since you're obviously using one. :)