Hybrid Motor on due to Battery Temp

[Earthdog]

So here I am in Atlanta, GA last Wednesday and its all of 82 degrees with 18 miles of EV remaining and noticed the Hybrid Motor was running. So I flipped over to the info screen and see that I am in Hybrid Motor Mode Due to Battery Temp. Now I admit I am running w/o Climate sunroof open to get all the EV miles I can but.... next day it fine...

 

Is this as to be expected or should I be going back to the dealer 40 miles away?

[pluggedin]

I think I would wait and see if that reoccurs on a regular basis. If it does I would be looking for an explanation as to why it's happening. But good luck with that since you probably know more about the cars system than most mechanics will at this point in time.

 

We have been in the 80's here and I have not noticed being forced out of EV to cool the batteries. And I run the AC all the time.

Edited April 23, 2013 at 03:12 PM by pluggedin

[efudd]

I noticed that my engine comes on when I have close to a full charge, I'm driving in "L", and I'm going down a hill.  I think this is by design.  If there is not enough battery charge acceptance for regenerative braking, then the ICE comes on to slow by engine braking.  This does not happen if I drive in "D", or I'm below say 85% charge (I'm sure this depends on the steepness of the hill).  Are you by chance driving down a hill?

[jsamp]

efudd,

 

Yes, what you describe is by design, and you're right on the explanation.  This behavior has been true of Ford Hybrids since the first Escape.  My '06 Escape will turn on when the hill is too steep, or the battery is too full.  It doesn't even have to be in "L", as using the regen-brakes too much on a hill will cause the engine to fire up sometimes (or it will just switch to friction braking).

[Earthdog]

So here we go again its 86 in Atlanta and again the Hybrid Motor comes on Due to Battery Temp. I have called the Dealer and they are a waste. I love the response bring it in new week and we will look at it... "WHAT its gonna be in the 80's tomorrow not Monday, we are busy it will be Monday until we can look at it"!!!!

 

Anyone got any ideas?

[murphy]

Was the air conditioner running?  It uses cabin air to cool the battery.

[Earthdog]

I did have the AC on also had the car on a Go Time so it had been running for 10 minutes.

[Earthdog]

Wow so I just got off the phone with the Dealer. After my third case of EV Mode changing to Hybrid Mode when the vehicle operates in Outside Temps above 82 degrees I just got shocking news... Per Ford Motor Corp the Service Manager called to inform me that this is normal behavior. 

 

My comment was Ford better STOP selling the Energi in the Southeast hell just about anywhere in the Southern US. I have requested a meeting with the Ford Manager anyone have another suggestion on the best process to follow?

 

I am just completely mind boggled. I am the perfect person for the Energi. I drive 18 miles to and from work and I'm into my 5th week on the same tank of gas with 3/4 remaining. So Ford seems to think I need to go from 349mpg because I use EV to the Hybrid Mode which is seeing 40mpg at best.... I Love my Fusion and such a huge advocate but this is a deal breaker. 

 

I am just speechless to hear that the EV Battery has an operating temp that is so low. Just wow... I will update tomorrow with the actual documentation from Ford....

[murphy]

Here are a bunch of thoughts.

 

Are you running your air conditioner? 

Cabin air is used to cool the battery. 

Do you have anything laying on the shelf behind the rear seats that could block the vents?

I think I read of a case on this forum where the vents were blocked when the car arrived from the factory.

Did you remove the insert in the trunk that holds the tire mobility kit and the battery charger?

It appears (I'm guessing) to form part of the battery cooling system.

[Rhyalus]

I wish I could say that I shared your surprise....  the EV battery does not have enough energy to drive the car, cool everything down including the cabin, and last for 21 miles.

 

We have already discussed on this board that the same will happen in the cold weather... when you start the car and it is freezing outside, the ICE engine will probably need to start to warm up the system.

 

I am on your side - not Ford's....  but the Energi is not a plug in battery driven vehicle with a supporting ICE.... it is the other way around.  This is a hybrid engine with a supporting battery that provides only a few (3%) miles of the total range on a tank of gas.

 

R

[murphy]

That depends on how the car is driven.  None of my trips during the week exceed 11 miles.  My only use of the engine will be on infrequent (maybe 5 times a year) trips out of town and when I force it on to make sure that it still works.  I will use about two tanks of gas in a year.

[Earthdog]

I wish I could say that I shared your surprise....  the EV battery does not have enough energy to drive the car, cool everything down including the cabin, and last for 21 miles.

 

We have already discussed on this board that the same will happen in the cold weather... when you start the car and it is freezing outside, the ICE engine will probably need to start to warm up the system.

 

I am on your side - not Ford's....  but the Energi is not a plug in battery driven vehicle with a supporting ICE.... it is the other way around.  This is a hybrid engine with a supporting battery that provides only a few (3%) miles of the total range on a tank of gas.

 

R

Well In my case I am on 240 charger at my office so the car is remote started (and runs for at least 5 minutes) and set to 74 degree's. The issue is from a standing start or 5 miles into my trip home it will change to ICE when the temp is over 80 outside. 

 

No obstructions to the venting and I am running with AC set at 74. 

 

I am not running out of EV ever the issue is the Batt Temp gets to high. 

[pluggedin]

Well I think that's just a load of crap, frankly! It's been over 90 degree here for weeks and the only time my ICE comes on is when I ask it to. And I assure you I am running the AC...on Max at times. And it's been over 100 degrees here for the past week, I might add.

 

What I have noticed is that I am only getting around 18-19 miles in a full charge and those miles seem to melt away pretty quickly, especially if I am in a hurry and dare to enter the freeway to get where I am going or on the way home.

 

Don't let them baffle you with BS because they don't have an answer to your problem, Earthdog. It's unfortunate but some service department will lie to you just to see if you will believe the lie. If it continues, ask to see your Ford service Rep and make him look you in the eye and tell you it's normal.

[Russael]

I've had an 88 degree day here in Michigan, with my car baking in the sun at work, and rolled home entirely on EV mode.  My speeds don't exceed 45MPH and I didn't use climate.  I don't hear the battery fans going either while driving or after I pull in to the garage.

 

82 degrees sounds far too low to worry about taking the load away from them.  I can see a threshold of 110 degrees, especially while they're being exercised... perhaps there's a hotspot in the battery pack due to a bad cell's internal resistance?  I don't know how many temperature probes they have in the pack, so it's possible that just 1 of them may be malfunctioning.

[pluggedin]

I feel like an update is in order. I drove my car about 60 miles, round trip, at around noon today with the temps just over 100 degrees. I drove the freeway in EV Later but switched to EV Now when I got into town and the engine ran off and on even though I was in EV Now.

As I headed home, in EV Later, and about 10 miles down the road my windshield wipers came so I cycled the switch off and on and the wipers quit running...happily.

When I got close to the house I had about 12 miles left on the EV battery so went to EV Now but the ICE remained engaged as long as power was needed to cool the batter, run the AC and acceleration was deemed necessary by the system. That continued to be the case all the way to the house, even the last two miles when I was going less than 30 mph. That is very unusual for me...first time ever.

On top of all that when I plugged the charger into the car the green light came on the charger, blinked a couple of times and then went solid. The yellow charging light did not come. I unplugged the cord from the car and plugged it back in but got the same result.

So I stood there scratching my head for a moment and decided to start the car while the charger was still plugged into it. As soon as I hit the start button the charging light came on, on the charger, and the car has been being charged for about a half hour now.

Some strange goings on today!

Edited June 6, 2013 at 02:12 AM by pluggedin

[Earthdog]

Well so it looks like the saga will continue. After all the conversations back and forth the Dealer failed to replicate the problem and only called the Ford Hotline. On top of that they even didn't even charge the HV Battery to attempt to replicate the issue. 

 

I sure hope they get me that appt with the Zone Manager because they have some explaining to do...

[pluggedin]

Well so it looks like the saga will continue. After all the conversations back and forth the Dealer failed to replicate the problem and only called the Ford Hotline. On top of that they even didn't even charge the HV Battery to attempt to replicate the issue. 

 

I sure hope they get me that appt with the Zone Manager because they have some explaining to do...

It looks like some of us will have to help bring our Ford service personnel through their learning curve on the Energi. Your guys just seem lazy.

Edited June 6, 2013 at 02:10 AM by pluggedin

[joeblow231]

That doesn't sound right. I've never had my ICE turn on when it was in Auto (unless I mashed the accelerator or had run out of battery) and we've had some stretches of 90+ days now. I usually only turn on the climate control when I'm in EV-later on the highway though.

[Earthdog]

So it happened again today. It was 92 in Atlanta. I finally have a meeting with the Zone Manager next week so lets hope he understands the car.

 

I have a link to todays video its a little long but it shows the switch from EV to Hybrid.

 

[pluggedin]

I have had my ICE forced on a couple times now, since you first posted your story. But today I drove the full 21 miles around town in EV Now, at 105 degree temps...go figure.

[Energized]

So it happened again today. It was 92 in Atlanta. I finally have a meeting with the Zone Manager next week so lets hope he understands the car.

 

I have a link to todays video its a little long but it shows the switch from EV to Hybrid.

 

 

In the video, it appears the vehicle is not in EV Now mode.

 

The message displayed does not mean the battery is "overheating"  it means the system is keeping the battery temperature within whatever design parameters they've programmed in.

 

The system has temperature sensors in the cabin of the vehicle and in the battery.  It apparently uses those two sensors to determine if the battery is within the operating parameter for EV mode. The cabin sensor is measuring the temperature of the air that will be blowing over the battery to cool it.   Keeping the battery temperature below a threshold is done for the long-term health of the battery. 

 

If you look at the battery problems (capacity loss) with the Nissan Leaf in Phoenix, you can see why a PHEV would monitor and react to higher temperatures the way it does.   Since the Leaf doesn't have an engine to use, the Leaf has no choice but to use the battery even when the temperatures are hot even though it may lead to early battery capacity loss. A PHEV has an engine to use so it makes sense to me to keep tighter control of the battery temperature and use the engine if the battery is at its upper range and the air blowing on it from the cabin is not cool enough to sufficiently cool the battery. 

 

 

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/nissan-leaf-owners-in-arizona-say-heat-is-destroying-their-cars-batteries/

 

 

I'm in a hot area during the summer months but haven't experienced anything unusual yet.  I keep a sunscreen in my windshield and I keep the A/C temp at 72 for my personal comfort.  So far that seems to be good enough to stay within the battery's comfort zone.  We'll see what happens in August but regardless I'd take the trade off for longer battery life.

Edited June 13, 2013 at 01:34 PM by Energized

[larryh]

Each of the tick marks on the Engage or Empower display is not 1 kW--it is far more.  The maximum power output of the car is 145 kW.  So the last tick mark should be at least 150 kW. 

 

The more power used from the battery the faster the battery heats up.  There must be a limit to the maximum power that can be drawn from the battery given the current battery temperature before the ICE turns on to prevent overheating the battery.  That box you are referring to in the display indicates the maximum power the battery can output before the ICE turns on.  Does the size of the box change depending on temperature or EV mode, or vary from day to day?  Is it always that size?

 

The trunk is quite warm at 115 degrees.  I wonder if putting the rear seats down so cool air can reach the trunk would help.  As indicated in the previous post, heat significantly reduces battery life so you want to protect your battery from it.

 

I have a 16 mile round trip commute to work.  I leave mine set on Auto EV.  The temperature has not been more than 80 so far.  The engine only came on twice now in two of months and only when I changed the mode to EV Now (which seems strange).  I'm not sure why it did that.  So I just leave it in Auto EV and I don't have a problem.

Edited June 13, 2013 at 02:17 PM by larryh

[Earthdog]

@ engergized and @larryh It was in Auto EV and stays there when this problem starts to show up it changes the mode out of Auto EV. You bring up a good point that I need to make sure they (Ford) understands.

 

The Battery Temp message only occurs in conjunction with the ICE coming on. And the gauge for the KW normally is up around 3/4 of the way with the Blue Hash Mark. Its only when it gets hot the Blue Hash Mark changes.  

 

I have thought about leaving the seat down but the fact is you should not have too. And as an FYI: the cabin temperature was at 74 and I had been driving for about 8 miles before this started. 

[murphy]

Do you have anything on the shelf behind the rear seats?  The air intake for the battery cooling system is through the shelf.

 

Somewhere on one of the three forums (Energi, Hybrid, Blue Oval) I remember reading about a car that was delivered with the air intake blocked.

 

Take a flashlight and look down through the "U" shaped grill and verify that you can see down into the air plenum.

[larryh]

Here is another link regarding temperature and battery life:  http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1077329_how-long-will-your-electric-car-battery-last-it-depends-where-you-live.  For me, living in MN, the expected battery life is greater than for someone living in the South.  Cooling the battery significantly increases its life expectancy.  According to the article, operating the battery at temperatures above 86 degrees impacts battery life.  With air cooling in Phoenix, battery capacity will be approximately 77% after 10 years.  For Minneapolis, it will be about 86% after 10 years.

 

Ford chose to use air cooling rather than liquid cooling to manage battery temperature.  I would be concerned that battery temperature is managed properly to preserve battery life.  If air cooling is not adequate, the only choice available is to turn on the ICE and stop drawing power from the battery.  I'm not sure how much 8 miles of driving heats up the battery.

Edited June 13, 2013 at 09:08 PM by larryh