Energi vs Volt? Advice Pls

[Volt4me]

nice report capt.

 

fuel economy & storage space were my main 2 concerns and we almost never use the rear seats.

 

I was hoping to learn some actual real world mpg figures for the Fords. I have heard that in perfect conditions it is hard to achieve the epa numbers.

 

with the same perfect conditions, you can add 20% to the volts epa numbers, which to me seems to negate any perceived fuel economy savings with the ford.

I don't mean on just a single trip, but what is an average over a month or lifetime to date.

 

I find the only way to really know what these new cars actually do is to talk to people that have them.

 

Of note, I traded my ford escape hybrid for the volt. I loved the escape, but 29mpg is all I could average over 6 years with it.. and I tried.

[Russael]

29MPG with an SUV wasn't bad, especially when you compared it to what WAS available at the time.  I'm going to assume you had the 4 wheel drive model.

 

I was eyeballing used hybrid Escapes for a while, but the only thing that kept me from getting one was the fact that I couldn't plug the dang thing in.  They give you a big battery and no other way to charge it except by braking or idling the motor?  Wasn't happy.  When the Fusion Energi surfaced, knew I had to have it.  :)

 

Anyways... Volt4me and captmable will be 2 guys who embraced new and early technology, along with the rest of us who went with hybrids, Energi's, or any other PHEV for that matter.

[jeff_h]

29MPG with an SUV wasn't bad, especially when you compared it to what WAS available at the time.  I'm going to assume you had the 4 wheel drive model.

 

I was eyeballing used hybrid Escapes for a while, but the only thing that kept me from getting one was the fact that I couldn't plug the dang thing in.  They give you a big battery and no other way to charge it except by braking or idling the motor?  Wasn't happy.  When the Fusion Energi surfaced, knew I had to have it.  :)

 

Anyways... Volt4me and captmable will be 2 guys who embraced new and early technology, along with the rest of us who went with hybrids, Energi's, or any other PHEV for that matter.

 

My wife had an Escape Hybrid, was 4WD, ran just fine but the best average I could get was 29 and best she could get was 25.

 

Anyways... it's nice to have others note the pros and cons of both of these models, and in a civil manner that doesn't slam one or the other as being a <choose your derogatory term here>.... some forums turn into a flame-fest when debate begins about differing brands/models, glad that's not the case here.  Sure this group is obviously biased toward the Energi, but also willing to acknowledge the positive points of other cars as appropriate, etc.

Edited April 19, 2013 at 02:04 PM by jeff_h

[Russael]

Most of us are adults here who have a handle on tact, kindness, politeness, etc.  There's plenty of flamewars on Youtube and people who have no tact (or just don't care due to the anonymity of the internet).  I understand having a passionate opinion on something, but there are smart ways to present it.  I wouldn't expect someone 20 years old to be shopping for or buying a Fusion Energi, Volt, CMAX Energi, or any other car that has a larger sticker on it.

 

I'm biased toward the Ford, others will be biased toward other brands.  I just try to keep an open mind and look at the advantages and disadvantages of each point of view.  It's pointless to make someone upset if you want to have a discussion on something. :)

[rprobst]

I was hoping to learn some actual real world mpg figures for the Fords. I have heard that in perfect conditions it is hard to achieve the epa numbers.with the same perfect conditions, you can add 20% to the volts epa numbers, which to me seems to negate any perceived fuel economy savings with the ford.I don't mean on just a single trip, but what is an average over a month or lifetime to date.

 

At 600 miles, I have burned less than half a tank, so can't yet compute mileage the old fashioned way, but the car computer is reporting my lifetime mileage as 50.5. That's MPG, not MPGe.

 

I should add that I love to floor it in EV mode. I know that's not the most efficient, but it's so darn fun! I have floored it in gas-only (EV Later) mode a couple of times as well. I enjoy the feeling of strong acceleration.

[Volt4me]

Thank-you for listening politely to my Volt experience. Just an fyi, it's an adult crowd over at the gm-volt.com forum as well if you have more technical questions.

 

Yes it was the 4wd escape.

 

Someone brought up the "premium" fuel for the Volt. They did this because a significant percentage of Volts would be driving on the same tank of gas for a year or close to it. Regular gas will go stale sooner than premium.

I also have to use synthetic oil for the ice, so my oil change will cost more too. Again Synthetic lasts longer. I have to go for an oil change every 2 years, not because the oil is dirty, but because that's the shelf life of the oil.

 

Another note on fuel economy. My lifetime mpg on the ice is 35.5mpg so far. almost all of my experience has been through fall winter and a bit of spring. These numbers all but have to get better as summer approaches. 30 - 40 miles on electric then. Now I see 45 and I'm sure I'll soon join the 50miles on a charge club. I don't know how some people get 60 miles on a charge, I don't think I'll ever drive that slow for that long to achieve it.

 

When I was your age, I only had 2 choices, the Volt or the Leaf and I had to wait over 3 months after putting my deposit down.

You guys that are still on the fence have much more to choose from, although I think you still have to wait.

[pluggedin]

- Sight lines are not great front and rear.

Capt 

 

 

nice report capt.

 

fuel economy & storage space were my main 2 concerns and we almost never use the rear seats.

 

I was hoping to learn some actual real world mpg figures for the Fords. I have heard that in perfect conditions it is hard to achieve the epa numbers.

 

with the same perfect conditions, you can add 20% to the volts epa numbers, which to me seems to negate any perceived fuel economy savings with the ford.

I don't mean on just a single trip, but what is an average over a month or lifetime to date.

 

I find the only way to really know what these new cars actually do is to talk to people that have them.

 

Of note, I traded my ford escape hybrid for the volt. I loved the escape, but 29mpg is all I could average over 6 years with it.. and I tried.

Capt, don't forget the rear camera option for sight line issues. I have never had that option before and find it extremely useful.

 

Volt4me, almost all of us have had our cars for less than a month so real world mpg/mpge are not yet available from us. In my case, as an example, I have 720 miles on my car and my lifetime miles are right at 80 mpge. However, my driving is about 80% less than 25 miles, about 18% less than 80 miles and 2% over 100 miles.

 

At the 720 mile mark, my gas gauge is showing a little more than half full (just a tick over). Based on that I am going to guess that I will get around 1,400 miles on one tank of gas, or 14 gallons of gas, if I run the tank dry. That comes out to 100 mpge, which is right on the mark for what the EPA rated the car for. My window sticker shows 100 mpge combined city/highway (gallons per 100 miles & kWh's per 100miles, with 43 mpg combined city/highway gasoline only).

 

What I don't see happening is meeting the 43 mpg gas only city/highway figure, unless part of the driving is done in EV only mode and then it will not be a true gas only figure. It's too early for me to tell but I am going to guess that the gas only figure is going to be somewhere south of 40 mpg.

 

However, I have taken a couple of those 80 mile round trips and my average has been around 46.5 mpge, because I used my 21 mile charge once I got off the freeway in Tucson and used what was left of the battery to get me home, which was mostly freeway driving. Now, if I do more driving in Tucson than normal the overall mileage will surely get closer to that 43 mpg figure, but will still be combined gas/electric.

 

Regardless, I am going to be getting around 1,000 more miles per tank of gas more than I got out of my all gas Camry, that gets around 30 mpg highway. So whether we are driving a Volt, a Fusion Energi or a Tesla our goal is to use less gas then we have in the past and it's working for me.

Edited April 19, 2013 at 02:54 PM by pluggedin

[Volt4me]

"At the 720 mile mark, my gas gauge is showing a little more than half full (just a tick over). Based on that I am going to guess that I will get around 1,400 miles on one tank of gas, or 14 gallons of gas, if I run the tank dry. That comes out to 100 mpge, which is right on the mark for what the EPA rated the car for. My window sticker shows 100 mpge combined city/highway (gallons per 100 miles & kWh's per 100miles, with 43 mpg combined city/highway gasoline only)."

 

Thanks Pluggedin.

 

Most people don't get "mpge", so I don't bring it up. I am at 78mpge lifetime after about 8000 miles. I only started using Voltstats.net since January, so my month by month only goes from that point. Since January, I see I'm averaging about 90mpge per month.

 

I'm sure you are enjoying the quiet smooth ride only an electric can provide. How often do you find yourself smiling when you drive past a gas station?

[pluggedin]

Thanks Pluggedin.

 

Most people don't get "mpge", so I don't bring it up. I am at 78mpge lifetime after about 8000 miles. I only started using Voltstats.net since January, so my month by month only goes from that point. Since January, I see I'm averaging about 90mpge per month.

 

I'm sure you are enjoying the quiet smooth ride only an electric can provide. How often do you find yourself smiling when you drive past a gas station?

If the car didn't have a windshield, I would have bugs on my teeth from smiling so much.

[Energized]

Someone brought up the "premium" fuel for the Volt. They did this because a significant percentage of Volts would be driving on the same tank of gas for a year or close to it. Regular gas will go stale sooner than premium.

 

Per GM, the use of Premium fuel in the Volt is required due to efficiency, and bumping up the EPA ratings.  Fuel freshness can be handled through other strategies if they wanted to.

 

Adam Denison with GM's Volt Communications dept.:

 

'The Volt's unique architecture causes the on-board engine to act more like a generator. As such, premium fuel is required to maximize fuel efficiency. The use of premium fuel in the Volt increases fuel efficiency by five percent or greater over the use of regular fuel. Simply put, premium fuel optimizes this engine's characteristics. Basically, with reduced fuel consumption a key objective, premium fuel is the right solution for the Volt.'"

 

Volt vehicle line director Tony Posawatz:

 

“The Volt is all about efficiency,” he said. “Premium fuel offers the opportunity to have a little bit more spark.”

“Ninety one octane fuel also offers the opportunity to be a little more efficient, he added.

 

 

The use of regular fuel in the Volt will reduce the efficiency of the ICE and the Volt will perform worse in EPA tests.

 

In hybrid mode, the Volt is not an efficient design.    Even with the use of more expensive Premium fuel , the mileage results for the Volt are significantly less than competing hybrid products and more in line with (or lagging)the more efficient non-hybrid compact cars in it's size class. 

[Volt4me]

"If the car didn't have a windshield, I would have bugs on my teeth from smiling so much."

 

That's good. I'm going to have to use that one!

 

 

Energized, I stand corrected, thank-you. I read long ago the stale gas point and never gave it a 2nd thought.

 

Yes, the Volt has its downsides.

Every bodies driving needs are different. As more choices become available, you can pick n choose what fits best for you.

 

I have about a 20 mile round trip commute. If i'm not traveling much afterwork, I only charge at work.

I am a squash enthusiast and often go to neighboring towns to play. When I go to the out of town gyms, I knew my commute would be about 40 miles return. When I heard the 2013 had an extra 3 miles range, it bumped it from almost perfect to perfect for me.

 

As a small business owner, I still have to pay for the electricity to charge technically out of my pocket, but another advantage (again for me) is that about 60% of my volts (electricity) fuel is paid for with before tax dollars.

[pluggedin]

Per GM, the use of Premium fuel in the Volt is required due to efficiency, and bumping up the EPA ratings.  Fuel freshness can be handled through other strategies if they wanted to.

 

Adam Denison with GM's Volt Communications dept.:

 

'The Volt's unique architecture causes the on-board engine to act more like a generator. As such, premium fuel is required to maximize fuel efficiency. The use of premium fuel in the Volt increases fuel efficiency by five percent or greater over the use of regular fuel. Simply put, premium fuel optimizes this engine's characteristics. Basically, with reduced fuel consumption a key objective, premium fuel is the right solution for the Volt.'"

 

Volt vehicle line director Tony Posawatz:

 

“The Volt is all about efficiency,” he said. “Premium fuel offers the opportunity to have a little bit more spark.”

“Ninety one octane fuel also offers the opportunity to be a little more efficient, he added.

 

 

The use of regular fuel in the Volt will reduce the efficiency of the ICE and the Volt will perform worse in EPA tests.

 

In hybrid mode, the Volt is not an efficient design.    Even with the use of more expensive Premium fuel , the mileage results for the Volt are significantly less than competing hybrid products and more in line with (or lagging)the more efficient non-hybrid compact cars in it's size class. 

All of that being true and said, I must say Volt4me's numbers are real world and pretty darned impressive to me. I have a new found respect for the Volt.

[Energized]

"If the car didn't have a windshield, I would have bugs on my teeth from smiling so much."

 

That's good. I'm going to have to use that one!

 

 

Energized, I stand corrected, thank-you. I read long ago the stale gas point and never gave it a 2nd thought.

 

Yes, the Volt has its downsides.

Every bodies driving needs are different. As more choices become available, you can pick n choose what fits best for you.

 

I have about a 20 mile round trip commute. If i'm not traveling much afterwork, I only charge at work.

I am a squash enthusiast and often go to neighboring towns to play. When I go to the out of town gyms, I knew my commute would be about 40 miles return. When I heard the 2013 had an extra 3 miles range, it bumped it from almost perfect to perfect for me.

 

As a small business owner, I still have to pay for the electricity to charge technically out of my pocket, but another advantage (again for me) is that about 60% of my volts (electricity) fuel is paid for with before tax dollars.

 

Not a problem.  I too remember the "marketing spin" early on regarding the Volt's use of Premium fuel and the stale fuel reasoning. 

 

It's true that Premium fuel may last "a little longer" depending on the brand and additives used, however, you wouldn't design a car around variables you can't control, such as an owner's use of Regular fuel or the brand of fuel they use.  To handle fuel freshness constraints, the Volt uses a fuel maintenance strategy not unlike other PHEVs.

Edited April 19, 2013 at 07:08 PM by Energized

[Volt4me]

Thank-you all, it's been a pleasure visiting, I've learned a lot about the Fords in the last two days and even a little about the Volt.

Whatever your choice, once you drive electric I'm certain you'll never buy an ice only car again.

[meyersnole]

Thank-you all, it's been a pleasure visiting, I've learned a lot about the Fords in the last two days and even a little about the Volt.

Whatever your choice, once you drive electric I'm certain you'll never buy an ice only car again.

 

Drop by anytime, always welcome here.