Economizing via Charge limiting and preconditioning

[Ffe]

I'm interested how I might LIMIT my home charging to only x miles of charge / only X kwh.

 

I have a routine where I leave home and drive a couple places then have time to burn on my laptop in a park where there's free charging.  So I don't want to charge at home unless I would need it to reach the park.

 

I've got some full 15a rated zwave metered, relay-controlled 120v nema 5-15 appliance modules.  I've heard that Ford forbids any thing of this sort, but they're quality built and I've used them successfully with space heaters and even air compressors for a number of years.   I saw a couple other Fusion drivers posting about using a hardware on/off timer to control their charge times as well because the ValueCharge thing on myfordmobile.com is junk.

 

I haven't gotten ValueCharge to work the way I wanted it to correctly yet either.  I'd kind of like to be able to keep the cable connected but start and stop charges remotely.  What's the best the ford hardware and infrastructure can do to support that?

 

I've thought about using 'value charge' as 'off' and "charge now" as 'on'.  Then set value charge to have only one tiny slice of time that was cheap and the rest expensive, but that didn't seem to limit it to that cheap slice.

 

Also, if I use external power control to limit when it charges, then I can't pre-condition the car unless it's charged 100% or charging, right?  and at 120v, there's not enough energy supply to precondition and charge at the same time.

 

Is there any chance that precondition would cause the gas engine to run?  (I'm asking is it safe to precondition in the garage)  What about "remote start" via fob and via myfordmobile app and website.  Surely their intention is to initiate climate control, not to initiate combustion of gasoline right?  So are they smart enough to inhibit ICE if the j plug is connected and power is supplied?

[murphy]

The engine should not start if the EVSE is plugged into the car if you activate climate control.  I would hope that remote start does not start the engine if the EVSE is plugged in.   I have not tested that in the 8 years I have had my car.  I don't know if the car knows that the EVSE is connected if the EVSE has no source of power.

Update: The car does know the EVSE is plugged into it when the EVSE is not powered.

 

If you turn the power to the EVSE off, that is the same as a power failure.  The EVSE has a power failure protocol.  All EVSEs have this protocol.  The EVSE will wait a random amount of time of up to 30 minutes before it turns back on.  The purpose is to prevent all of the EVSEs connected to the power company from turning on the instant power is restored.  The load that would present to the power company could knock them back offline.

 

I was never able to precondition my car on 120 volts.  There are only 1440 watts available which won't create much heat in a 5000 watt heater.

With 240 volts there are 3840 watts available which works a lot better.

 

EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment)  It's a special purpose AC power switch.  The charger is built into the car.

Edited March 14, 2021 at 03:48 PM by murphy
added information

[theterminator93]

Others have had poor experience preconditioning on 120V, but it has worked fine for me. The car stays in an attached yet unheated garage which stayed in the mid-upper 30s or more over this winter, with temperatures anywhere from 3 to 40. It kicks on about 40-50 minutes before the scheduled "go" time and while the car isn't all the way up to the set temperature every time, it's very noticeably warmer than inside the garage.

 

I saw reports that the engine can turn on even with the EVSE attached in the cold weather observations thread. Here is the quote:

  

On 11/9/2013 at 4:44 PM, larryh said:

The ICE should not start if GO times are used to precondition the car.  However, if you remote start the car, I can't guarantee that the ICE won't start.  If the high voltage battery is low and the charger cannot keep up with the power required for preconditioning the vehicle, the ICE will most likely turn on.  Warning from the manual:

 

To avoid exhaust fumes, do not use remote start if your vehicle is parked indoors or areas that are not well ventilated.

 

The ICE has started on me when the car is plugged in.

 

[Ffe]

I have also witnessed the ICE start while plugged in.  But I was very much present and messing with things at the time.  I was outdoors.  I had pressed the brake pedal and then igition switch to have as much utility of the car as possible.  I was running my laptop off of the 12v outlet.  Then I started the heat and heated seats and that's when it started.

 

I've noticed the HVB actually decrease in charge percebt during this high combination of power draw.  It'd be nice if the car had an option to reduce heating wattage or use pulse width modulation of the heater coil so that it could still charge somewhat while heating.  I'd appreciate it while I'm inside the car, and I imagine others would appreciate it who want to pre-condition their car without causing ICE to run or lowering the battery from 100%.

[jsamp]

On 3/13/2021 at 7:59 PM, Ffe said:

I'm interested how I might LIMIT my home charging to only x miles of charge / only X kwh.

 

I have a routine where I leave home and drive a couple places then have time to burn on my laptop in a park where there's free charging.  So I don't want to charge at home unless I would need it to reach the park.

 

I've got some full 15a rated zwave metered, relay-controlled 120v nema 5-15 appliance modules.  I've heard that Ford forbids any thing of this sort, but they're quality built and I've used them successfully with space heaters and even air compressors for a number of years.   I saw a couple other Fusion drivers posting about using a hardware on/off timer to control their charge times as well because the ValueCharge thing on myfordmobile.com is junk.

 

I haven't gotten ValueCharge to work the way I wanted it to correctly yet either.  I'd kind of like to be able to keep the cable connected but start and stop charges remotely.  What's the best the ford hardware and infrastructure can do to support that?

 

I've thought about using 'value charge' as 'off' and "charge now" as 'on'.  Then set value charge to have only one tiny slice of time that was cheap and the rest expensive, but that didn't seem to limit it to that cheap slice.

 

Also, if I use external power control to limit when it charges, then I can't pre-condition the car unless it's charged 100% or charging, right?  and at 120v, there's not enough energy supply to precondition and charge at the same time.

 

Is there any chance that precondition would cause the gas engine to run?  (I'm asking is it safe to precondition in the garage)  What about "remote start" via fob and via myfordmobile app and website.  Surely their intention is to initiate climate control, not to initiate combustion of gasoline right?  So are they smart enough to inhibit ICE if the j plug is connected and power is supplied?

 

Unfortunately you are going to find yourself fighting Ford's assumed usage of this vehicle.  Yes, you can limit charging with 'value charge' but there are times when Ford's programming will override that.  For example: if you have a value charge time set, but have a "go time" set as well (where you are going to use pre-heating of the cabin) it will override your value charge time to compensate for the power that will be used in the preheating.  It assumes you want the battery at 100% at your go time.  Thus it will change your charge start time for you to make sure it can reach 100% - how convenient!  Except for people like you and I who want to actually control the charging start/stop times or the stop charge level.  We're out of luck. 

 

The only 2 ways way to stop charging at less than full is to either schedule a value charge shorter than what is needed for a charge (and not use 'go times') or manually go out and unplug it when it has reached your desired charge level.  Sorry.

 

Yes, as I understand it the vehicle "might" start the ICE during preconditioning or remote start if it is cold enough and you have defrost turned on.  The car will try to use the ICE to supplement the battery to get the amount of heat it wants.