What Level 2 Charger did you buy/install?

[larryh]

3.2 to 3.4 kW is the power consumed while charging the HVB.  It is not the energy required to charge the battery.  I haven't actually measured the amount of energy required to charge a fully depleted battery when the meter was connected.  Unfortunately, the meter only provides resolution to the nearest kWh so it will take several measurements to get an accurate value.  Assuming the car says that used 5.8 kWh of plug-in energy (a typical value for a deeply depleted battery when the hybrid battery on the console shows less than 25% charge), I would estimate the amount of electricity from the power company to be between 6.8 and 7.2 kWh based on the measurements I made this week.  If it is less depleted, and the car says around 5.6 kWh (the hybrid battery shows about 50% charge), then the value would be between 6.5 and 6.9 kWh.  So my measurements agree with yours.

 

Note that the meter is measuring the entire energy consumption of the charger throughout the day, even the energy it consumes while not charging.  However, the timer is supposed to use less than 3 W and the charger less than 5 W.  So they should not have large impact on the results. 

Edited September 6, 2013 at 01:08 PM by larryh

[larryh]

If you are wondering how I determined the average power consumed during charging, I simply divided the 17-18 kWh by the total charge time as reported by MyFord Mobile.  I subtracted four minutes from each time to account for the fact that the power slowly decreases from the max to 0 during the last eight minutes of charging.

 

I wish I knew how my meter worked.  It has two bars under the digits displaying kWh.  I would assume that the bars move one digit to the right with each 1 Wh of energy use.  But doing that computation, I only get 2.9 kW.  So that assumption cannot be right.

Edited September 6, 2013 at 08:28 PM by larryh

[murphy]

Have you found any documentation for the meter online?

[larryh]

The meter is shown below.  I think I figured it out.  Kh is 7.2 for my meter.  So each time the bars rotate once across the six digits represents 7.2 Wh of energy.   The bars under the digits appear to simulate the wheel on a mechanical meter.

 

I observed 10 rotations in 75.63 seconds.  I made a movie with my digital camera and then used a movie editor to step frame by frame through the images.  So that corresponds to 0.13222 rotations/sec.  Multiply that by 3600 seconds/hr and by the 7.2 Kh and I get:  3427 watts.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2013 at 09:29 PM by larryh

[larryh]

When the car is not charging, the "Digital Power Indicator" bars below the digits do not move at all, even after 24 hours.  So I can't measure the standy power being used by the timer and the charger.  If the charger uses 5 Watts during standy mode, the bars should move at least 5/1.2 = 4 digits each hour. 

 

I notice on the specifications for the meter, the "Starting Load" for the meter is 12 Watts.  Does that mean the meter does not register any electricity use below 12 watts and I don't have to pay for that electricity? 

Edited September 6, 2013 at 11:18 PM by larryh

[murphy]

I notice on the specifications for the meter, the "Starting Load" for the meter is 12 Watts.  Does that mean the meter does not register any electricity use below 12 watts and I don't have to pay for that electricity? 

That is how I interpret the specs for the meter.  The 7.2 factor is the most common factor for mechanical spinning wheel meters.

[larryh]

Thank you for your reply.  I wish Dakota Electric would use smart meters.  They would make it much easier to track electricity usage.  To get accurate power measurements, I have to make a movie of my meter with my digital camera so I can accurately determine the timing of the Digital Power Indicator.  In addition, the resolution of the meter is only to the whole kWh.  Either I have to take measurements over a long period of time, or again record the meter so I can calculate the current fraction of a kWh.

Edited September 7, 2013 at 12:29 PM by larryh

[Russael]

I just got a letter from DTE about a week ago stating that they're going to be installing smart meters in my locale very soon (currently have a mechanical meter).  I've been looking forward to that since I'm very curious why my electric bill is as high as it is and the monitoring stuff they can do with it now is very attractive.  I just hope I'm home when they install it.  I don't want them doing it while it's 'hot' and connected to the house.  I'd prefer to turn the main off, let him swap the meter, and then turn the main back on.

[larryh]

Comparing my results with http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/687-ge-wattstation-installreview/?p=2486, the average power use reported by Scooter80 using the GE Wattstation 240 V / 30 amp charger appears to be around 3.425 kW.  So I must be computing the power usage correctly from my meter using the Bosch Power Max 240 V / 30 A charger when I obtained 3.427 kW.

[TX NRG]

So if I compute the ratio of power from the electric company used to charge the car divided by the amount of plug-in energy consumed as reported by the car, I get a value between 1.17 and 1.24.  That is far better than the 1.39 ratio for the 120 V charger.  So just by using a 240 V charger, my actual MPGe has increased by 16%.  It appears the 120 V charger is rather inefficient compared to my 240 V charger.  With the 120 V charger, 72% of the energy from the wall outlet is actually used to propel the car.  The rest is wasted.  With the 240 V charger, 83% of the energy is used to propel the car.

Making some general assumptions regarding common usage (one full recharge daily) and costs ($1k L2 charger+install cost?, 12 cents/kWh, etc.) and given the difference in L1 vs L2 charging efficiency, can you calculate the break even point in months to support the L2 charger investment?

[larryh]

It takes almost exactly 1 kWh of energy less to charge a fully depleted battery with a 240 V charger vs. the 120 V charger.   So for a daily full recharge, that would be 365 kWh each year.   At $0.12 / kWh, that would be about $44 per year. 

 

For the charger I selected, the Power Max 30 A, the charger is normally priced at $593.  You receive a 30% tax credit for the charger and installation.  So that would reduce the price of the 30 Amp charger to $415.  It  would then take 9.5 years to recover the cost of the charger alone.  It would typically cost another $350 to install the charger for which you can also get a 30% tax credit. There is also a $450 model with a shorter cord and 15 amps rather than 30 amps. There is also the 20 Amp Clipper Creek for $495.

 

However, with my charger installation, I am able to take advantage of a discounted electric rate from the electric company at $0.0585 / kWh.  With this discounted rate, the total savings would amount to about $200 / year.   My total cost for the charger and installation was $1550 (I had a complex installation), less the 30% tax credit yields $1085.   I would recover my investment in 5 years under these assumptions.  You should check to see if your electric company offers discounted rates for EVs.

 

There are additional potential savings with the 240 V charger:

  . You can charge in just over 2 hours.  So you can charge multiple times throughout the day and travel more in EV mode.

  . You can precondition the car without depleting the battery.  You will reduce range and deplete the battery using a 120 V charger.  I am hoping that this will allow me to commute to work and back entirely in EV mode this winter.  The round-trip commute is 14.6 miles.  I don't think it would be possible with the 120 V charger.

Edited September 9, 2013 at 10:02 AM by larryh

[TheGC1]

Can you list the "Bosch Power Max™ 16A / 12' Cord"? At $449, seems like a bargain.

 

Other versions include the following:

- Bosch Power Max™ 30A / 18' Cord

- Bosch Power Max™ 30A / 25' Cord

 

Thanks!

[meyersnole]

Can you list the "Bosch Power Max™ 16A / 12' Cord"? At $449, seems like a bargain.

 

Other versions include the following:

- Bosch Power Max™ 30A / 18' Cord

- Bosch Power Max™ 30A / 25' Cord

 

Thanks!

I have the Bosch 30A with 18' cord. I like the unit, but I must say I am not a fan of the ordering process.

 

You start out by filling out a survey, they contact you then a contractor comes out to give an estimate.  I got a delivery date for the unit of about 2 weeks post the site survey. The unit did not show up that week, in fact it took about a month longer.  What they did not tell me up front is that I ended up ordering before their first shipment, so it might be better now. Additionally they batch their orders to 100 units at a time before they ship them over from China.

 

All in all it was not too bad, but was frustrated at the time because I was not told upfront about the process. If you want a charger right away this is not the route to go. If you want what appears to be a quality charger at a reasonable price it might be worth it. 

 

The other thing you will have to factor in is the warranty. If you have then just ship it to you for self install, then you will have a 1 year warranty. If you let them install it, I think the warranty is 3 years but the install will not be cheap. I located my unit about 12 feet from my panel and install/parts ran an additional $600. I am happy with the install because I would not want to mess with 240v, and they did a clean install. It also took the professional a couple hours to do it, and it would have taken me double the time at a minimum.

 

There are a few of us who have these chargers, so maybe someone else can share their experience.

 

Edit: The reason I got the 30A version is that I wanted the 18' cord and as I think that one day we might also do a second EV and the cord would reach both sides of the garage. For this car you are right, you will not get any faster charging out of the 30A then the 16A for the Fusion. 

Edited September 11, 2013 at 03:40 AM by meyersnole

[TheGC1]

I have the Bosch 30A with 18' cord. I like the unit, but I must say I am not a fan of the ordering process.

 

You start out by filling out a survey, they contact you then a contractor comes out to give an estimate.  I got a delivery date for the unit of about 2 weeks post the site survey. The unit did not show up that week, in fact it took about a month longer.  What they did not tell me up front is that I ended up ordering before their first shipment, so it might be better now. Additionally they batch their orders to 100 units at a time before they ship them over from China.

 

All in all it was not too bad, but was frustrated at the time because I was not told upfront about the process. If you want a charger right away this is not the route to go. If you want what appears to be a quality charger at a reasonable price it might be worth it. 

 

The other thing you will have to factor in is the warranty. If you have then just ship it to you for self install, then you will have a 1 year warranty. If you let them install it, I think the warranty is 3 years but the install will not be cheap. I located my unit about 12 feet from my panel and install/parts ran an additional $600. I am happy with the install because I would not want to mess with 240v, and they did a clean install. It also took the professional a couple hours to do it, and it would have taken me double the time at a minimum.

 

There are a few of us who have these chargers, so maybe someone else can share their experience.

 

Edit: The reason I got the 30A version is that I wanted the 18' cord and as I think that one day we might also do a second EV and the cord would reach both sides of the garage. For this car you are right, you will not get any faster charging out of the 30A then the 16A for the Fusion. 

Wow, thanks for the great feedback. Based on your comments, if the lead time hasn't improved, I won't go this route. I'm of the mindset that time is money and I'd be willing to pay extra for the satisfaction of having the charger now...

 

Again, thanks for the great feedback.

[larryh]

I placed the order for the Bosch Power Max charger on June 28, about a month after they provided me with an estimate.  They had not started production yet.  I was told that they expected the first units would start shipping in about three weeks.  My unit was not shipped until August 14.  The electrician was busy until August 27 before he could install it.  The power company installed the meter for the charger on September 3.  The electrical inspection occurred on September 10.  You would have to call Bosch to see if they are still backlogged with orders.   I am happy with the charger and the installation. 

 

If you order the unit without installation, you can get estimates from several electricians to get a better installation cost than from the electrician Bosch selects to install the unit.  However, as mentioned above, you only get a one year warranty rather than a three year warranty if you do that.   If you let Bosch install it and get the three year warranty, then all costs to repair/replace the unit are covered by Bosch, including the cost to have the electrician come out and fix the problem or to install a new unit.  But I am not sure that is worth the higher cost.  Bosch selected Mr. Electric to do my installation.  He installed all the Ford Leviton chargers for the local dealers and is also the official installer for Tesla chargers.  I was not overly impressed with him.  I would expected him to have been a bit more knowledgeable about things than he was. 

 

Bosch discounted the price of the original estimate for me--they were apparently more anxious to sell the unit than I was to buy it.  I was not in any rush to install the unit.  I still had the 120 V charger.  Price was more important to me than the time to install.  Anyway, the extra time gave me more time to evaluate possible alternative installations and chargers. 

 

I also chose the 30 Amp charger over the 15 Amp charger.  I had a more complex installation that included a separately metered circuit to get discounted electric rates.  If I am going through all that expense, I am not going to skimp and buy a 15 amp charger over a 30 amp charger just to save $150.  All the other 30 amp chargers that I am aware of  cost at least $200 more than the Bosch charger.   Hopefully, more competition will eventually reduce the cost of chargers. 

Edited September 11, 2013 at 10:42 AM by larryh

[TheGC1]

I placed the order for the Bosch Power Max charger on June 28, about a month after they provided me with an estimate.  They had not started production yet.  I was told that they expected the first units would start shipping in about three weeks.  My unit was not shipped until August 14.  The electrician was busy until August 27 before he could install it.  The power company installed the meter for the charger on September 3.  The electrical inspection occurred on September 10.  You would have to call Bosch to see if they are still backlogged with orders.   I am happy with the charger and the installation. 

 

If you order the unit without installation, you can get estimates from several electricians to get a better installation cost than from the electrician Bosch selects to install the unit.  However, as mentioned above, you only get a one year warranty rather than a three year warranty if you do that.   If you let Bosch install it and get the three year warranty, then all costs to repair/replace the unit are covered by Bosch, including the cost to have the electrician come out and fix the problem or to install a new unit.  But I am not sure that is worth the higher cost.  Bosch selected Mr. Electric to do my installation.  He installed all the Ford Leviton chargers for the local dealers and is also the official installer for Tesla chargers.  I was not overly impressed with him.  I would expected him to have been a bit more knowledgeable about things than he was. 

 

Bosch discounted the price of the original estimate for me--they were apparently more anxious to sell the unit than I was to buy it.  I was not in any rush to install the unit.  I still had the 120 V charger.  Price was more important to me than the time to install.  Anyway, the extra time gave me more time to evaluate possible alternative installations and chargers. 

 

I also chose the 30 Amp charger over the 15 Amp charger.  I had a more complex installation that included a separately metered circuit to get discounted electric rates.  If I am going through all that expense, I am not going to skimp and buy a 15 amp charger over a 30 amp charger just to save $150.  All the other 30 amp chargers that I am aware of  cost at least $200 more than the Bosch charger.   Hopefully, more competition will eventually reduce the cost of chargers. 

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll give them a call and see if they're still more excited to sell than I am to buy. Lol.

[Earthdog]

I just found out that Metro Plugin deal on the Eaton 30amp unit. http://www.metroplugin.com/shop/eaton-level-2/ This unit is selling everywhere and its 999.00 but they are selling them for $695.00. If you don't know Eaton is the new Partner of Ford on the My Energy Initiative http://www.examiner.com/article/ford-introduces-myenergy-lifestyle-to-manage-home-energy-use-and-save-money

 The Eaton Unit is a great solution for 30amps for sure. I know its ore the we need for the Fusion but sometimes future proofing is worth it.

[larryh]

You can get a free 240 V charging station with the purchase of a car if you live in California.

 

http://evsolutions.avinc.com/products/cec/cec_program_overview

Edited September 11, 2013 at 10:53 PM by larryh

[meyersnole]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll give them a call and see if they're still more excited to sell than I am to buy. Lol.

 

Another thing to mention. L2 chargers are not a must for this car, the 120V chargers that come with the vehicle will cover most of the people who buy this car. It takes about 6.5 hours to charge the car with the supplied charger.  Just plug it in when you get home.

 

I bought mine for convenience and the once or twice a week that I come home and leave again in an hour to go out again. With the L2 charger you can get a full charge in about 2.5 hours.

Edited September 11, 2013 at 10:56 PM by meyersnole

[joeblow231]

The Bosch 30 A with 18' cord is out of stock and won't be available until next month. Looking at Amazon and Home Depot a lot of models are out of stock now.

[shaggy314]

Another thing to mention. L2 chargers are not a must for this car, the 120V chargers that come with the vehicle will cover most of the people who buy this car. It takes about 6.5 hours to charge the car with the supplied charger.  Just plug it in when you get home.

 

I bought mine for convenience and the once or twice a week that I come home and leave again in an hour to go out again. With the L2 charger you can get a full charge in about 2.5 hours.

 

Keep in mind that 110 charging is less efficient than a 240, so, in theory, you are wasting a little more power (as heat). Half the power yields 3 times the charge time...

[meyersnole]

Keep in mind that 110 charging is less efficient than a 240, so, in theory, you are wasting a little more power (as heat). Half the power yields 3 times the charge time...

 

True, but if you do not care about the time the amount of power wasted is very small.

 

I got a L2 charger not for the efficiency of the charge, but to allow me to make trips after coming home with out using fuel. Still probably not worth the cost of the charger, but worth it for me.

[SD Diver]

"The peak hour rates from the power company is $0.3785 / kWh."

Wow... just.. wow..

Here in San Diego our rates just went up yet again. $0.29 peak (12:00 pm - 6:00 pm), $0.16 for super off-peak (12:00 am - 5:00 am) and $0.19 for the rest. So I assume that if I charge during super off peak, my 7.5 kwh will cost me $1.20. Better than gas ( $0.06/mile vs $0.09/mile). Math look right?

[SD Diver]

Also, I was able to get the free Areovironment charger when I purchased the car last week. I only need to pay for the permit...

[larryh]

Here in San Diego our rates just went up yet again. $0.29 peak (12:00 pm - 6:00 pm), $0.16 for super off-peak (12:00 am - 5:00 am) and $0.19 for the rest. So I assume that if I charge during super off peak, my 7.5 kwh will cost me $1.20. Better than gas ( $0.06/mile vs $0.09/mile). Math look right?

Yes, the math is correct based on the EPA estimates.  Electricity is expensive in San Diego.  At least you get a free charger.  It will take over five years to recover the cost for mine.  The permit cost me $50. 

Edited September 18, 2013 at 01:32 AM by larryh