Pleasing Ammenities But Lacking In Performance

[Brad Schuck]

First off, I like our new Fusion Energi, it is definitely a step up in styling from our 2010 Fusion Hybrid.

Enough with the pleasantries; we bought our fully loaded Energi Titanium 5 days ago. The first couple of days we charged it overnight and fully charged it indicated 21 miles just like advertised. Two days ago the ‘fully charged’ mileage indication dropped to 17 miles. Our mileage the first couple of days was averaging around 60 mpg. We noticed the drop in “engine only” gas mileage from 40mpg highway in our 2010 to ~25 in the Energi. The engine seems underpowered and strains to maintain highway speeds of 65-70 mph. I drive the vehicle 100 miles per day and just as in our 2010, I maximize the mileage by simple tweaks of operation. I don’t hypermile, just drive it using common sense (no jackrabbit starts etc) and use the battery mode to achieve highway speeds and on upgrades.

Our 2010 was averaging 45mpg (I beat the advertised numbers since the car was new) over a 20,000 mile span when we traded it in. The Energi has dropped to 53 and it’s on its way down with every mile over the exact same route we have driven for 10 years.

 

The trunk is not an issue as, if you bought the car without looking at it, that’s your fault. The fold-down seats are a waste of effort as the maximum height for any cargo going through the area is only about 4-6 inches.

The lane assistance is an annoyance as you cannot turn it off. The Active Park Assist is a waste of time for all but morons who can’t learn. It puts the wheels against the curb which will eventually earn you some wonderful scratches on your wheels. Maybe it helps the people with no range of motion that really shouldn’t be driving anyway.

The BLIS system is wonderful at night. A nice touch that should be standard on all Fords,

 

The upgraded Sony sound system is great. The seats are comfortable. The front view is spectacular.

The map and displays are mediocre at best. We contacted Ford on several occasions since we bought our 2010 to ask them to allow the user to change the colors for the roads and traffic as color-blind people have difficulties discerning the images when they are overlaid on each other. It is only a software change, but Ford doesn’t seem to listen.

 

Over all, the vehicle is a good one, but I expected a great one at $46,000 plus. Ford could have all but shorted out the Volt with this one, but their resistance to change will keep the Volt as it currently is a big competitor (a little engineering humor).

 

Given the performance of the vehicle so far, it falls far short of our expectations and we should have stayed with our 2010.

 

If gas mileage is what you’re looking for, a 2010-2012 smokes the Energi in real world conditions at a much lower acquisition cost and cost of operation. We never once replaced the brake pads on our 2010 and had 105,000 miles on it with over 50% of the pads left at trade-in time.

 

If the new amenities are your pleasure, this is the car for you.

 

[47Minutes]

What were your expectations from a car with up to 21 miles electric range when you drive it 5 times that distance daily?  The majority of your time is spent in Hybrid mode (80 miles roughly).  It sounds like you do a lot of Hwy in those miles for which the Energi is rated at 41.  Now take into account that the EPA rating is most likely not achieved at sustained Hwy speeds of 65-70 mph.  I am assuming these daily miles are done with just a single charge to start off the day.  If you were recharging to a full battery somewhere during these 100 miles and were still dropping in efficiency then I would be more concerned/empathetic.

 

I also had a 2010 FFH and peaked at 45mpg with a sustained 42-ish for the past year.  I have found that the Energi is harder to drive as a Hybrid than my 2010 was.  I'll give you that on the same route with both cars it harder to get the ~45mpg with the Energi when looking solely at its performance as a Hybrid.  But I expected that going in knowing that a full charge would almost get me to work and I had no option to recharge for the 25 mile commute home.  While I wish my efficiency was greater on just my first tank of gas, I can hardly complain because my driving circumstances fall outside of the parameters where the car was designed to operate most efficiently.  (50 mile daily commute on a single charge)

 

At the risk of inciting anger, I don't think the Energi was designed with your type of commute in mind.

[jeff_h]

At the risk of inciting anger, I don't think the Energi was designed with your type of commute in mind.

 

I concur, that's why I got a hybrid instead of Energi for my commute - 60 miles each way and not a way to charge while at work (I asked, but no dice)...

[meyersnole]

I have a little spreadsheet that I made to calculate MPG expectations, and you are pretty close to EPA ratings driving 65-70 mph.

 

If I count electric at 100 MPGe and Gas at 41, the spreadsheet pops out 53.39mpg. As 47minutes points out this car is really designed for those of us with shorter commutes. Its a big car with a big battery. You are comparing the energi to the hybrid which is not really fair. The longer your commute becomes, the more the hybrid start to make sense over the energi. 

 

My commute is 22 miles, and if all I do is drive back and forth to work I burn no fuel. With short little side trips (my norm) I usually pull into the driveway burning less then .05 gallons of gas. I have had the car a month, put over 700 miles on it and have burned about 2.5 gallons, making this car ideal for me.

 

If I had your commute and I was getting over 50 mpg in a car as nice as the fusion I still think I would be pretty happy. 

[Scooter80]

The lane assistance is an annoyance as you cannot turn it off. The Active Park Assist is a waste of time for all but morons who can’t learn. It puts the wheels against the curb which will eventually earn you some wonderful scratches on your wheels. Maybe it helps the people with no range of motion that really shouldn’t be driving anyway.

 

I have to push the button on the end of the turn signal stalk to even turn my lane assist on, so maybe check your settings in the left screen. And if you're learned at parking, why may I ask, would you purchase the parking package?

 

It is strange to me that people complain about their dislike of a purchase this large in this manner. Did you not research before you dropped you $46k+? You've had it for five days. Is a little time before judgement unreasonable? I would expect mileage and efficiency to increase as the engine wears in and you acclimate to its characteristics. It tells you the same in the owners manual. Like some have said already, if you bought this for extended commutes you likely did not research and should have gone with the less costly and more efficient in that role hybrid-only. The plug-in Energi was designed for shorter commutes and those with point-to-point charging available.

 

As for the brakes, maybe after 100k+ miles, your Energi will also have 50% life on them. No way to tell that at the moment. But I dunno how that lifts a 2010 FFH to the penultimate level. A brake job costs a DIY'er all of maybe $300 rotors and pads. I'd think you'd have a hard time complaining of having to do a brake job even at half that mileage. And if you did have to, if half a cent a mile savings in brakes is what lifts a car up on high for you, then you're probably right. The new Fusion Energi wasn't for you.

[Energized]

The first couple of days we charged it overnight and fully charged it indicated 21 miles just like advertised. Two days ago the ‘fully charged’ mileage indication dropped to 17 miles.

 

 

This statement indicates a complete lack of knowledge about the vehicle. 

 

The same can be said for the comment about the Lane Keeping

 

Lane Keeping:

 

 

Note: The system needs to be activated by

the driver at each key cycle.

 

 

 

 

 

Note: The system defaults to off each time the vehicle is started, unless a MyKey® is detected.

If a MyKey® is detected, the system is defaulted to on and the Alert mode is automatically selected.

 

 

 

To turn the system on, press the button located on the left steering wheel stalk. The button must be pressed each time the vehicle is started. The system can be turned off by pressing the button again.

Edited April 10, 2013 at 03:10 AM by Energized

[Brad Schuck]

This statement indicates a complete lack of knowledge about the vehicle. 

 

The same can be said for the comment about the Lane Keeping

 

Lane Keeping:

 

Note: The system needs to be activated by

the driver at each key cycle.

 

Note: The system defaults to off each time

the vehicle is started,

 

To turn the system on, press the button located on the left steering wheel stalk. The button must be pressed each time the vehicle is started. The system can be turned off by

pressing the button again.

It's good to know there are people out there that know more than I do about my vehicle. Thanks. Now for the issues, The system WON'T let me start or stop my driver assist, it comes on by itself without any input put from me whatsoever. The dealer has confirmed this and the car will be returned to me after they fix it. It's good that you can read. Next time try using your brain too.

[Energized]

Try clearing the MyKey function. When MyKey is activated , all safety features are forced on every time.

Edited April 10, 2013 at 02:56 AM by Energized

[Scooter80]

It's good to know there are people out there that know more than I do about my vehicle. Thanks. Now for the issues, The system WON'T let me start or stop my driver assist, it comes on by itself without any input put from me whatsoever. The dealer has confirmed this and the car will be returned to me after they fix it. It's good that you can read. Next time try using your brain too.

 

Yikes! He pointed out a defect in your car that even you were apparently not aware of as you didn't mention in your post and he gets flamed for it?! Cool off dude. We can't make you happy with your car if you don't want to be. We can only try to help you come to terms with your gripes.

[Brad Schuck]

I have to push the button on the end of the turn signal stalk to even turn my lane assist on, so maybe check your settings in the left screen. And if you're learned at parking, why may I ask, would you purchase the parking package? It is strange to me that people complain about their dislike of a purchase this large in this manner. Did you not research before you dropped you $46k+? You've had it for five days. Is a little time before judgement unreasonable? I would expect mileage and efficiency to increase as the engine wears in and you acclimate to its characteristics. It tells you the same in the owners manual. Like some have said already, if you bought this for extended commutes you likely did not research and should have gone with the less costly and more efficient in that role hybrid-only. The plug-in Energi was designed for shorter commutes and those with point-to-point charging available. As for the brakes, maybe after 100k+ miles, your Energi will also have 50% life on them. No way to tell that at the moment. But I dunno how that lifts a 2010 FFH to the penultimate level. A brake job costs a DIY'er all of maybe $300 rotors and pads. I'd think you'd have a hard time complaining of having to do a brake job even at half that mileage. And if you did have to, if half a cent a mile savings in brakes is what lifts a car up on high for you, then you're probably right. The new Fusion Energi wasn't for you.

We purchased the Energi Titanium because the SE can't be ordered with the upgraded Sony sound system. The Active Park came with it, so I'm not complaining about an option I bought and didn't need. I charge my vehicle at night, drive it 45 miles in the morning to work, charge it at work and drive 45 miles back home. Is this too much to ask of this vehicle? When the mileage dropped from 60 to 51 today and the battery range dropped from 21 to 17  to 15 FULLY CHARGED, I brought it into the dealer. They have confirmed ALL of my concerns and will have the car for several days. When you find an article from Ford that states the vehicle is not designed for 45 mile trips I would love to read it. And yes, I expect a 46,000 dollar car to performed right out of the gate. The tax incentives are only for the energi so the cost of the hybrid was the same or close.

[Energized]

  and the battery range dropped from 21 to 17  to 15 FULLY CHARGED, I brought it into the dealer.

 

Again, this statement reflects a total lack of understanding of what you are reading.  

 

I can instantly change the estimated range by 5 mpg by sitting in my driveway. 

 

p.s.  I have no idea what you're talking about regarding your 45 mile commute.  We're you expecting to go 45 miles non-stop in EV mode? 

Edited April 10, 2013 at 03:11 AM by Energized

[Brad Schuck]

I have a little spreadsheet that I made to calculate MPG expectations, and you are pretty close to EPA ratings driving 65-70 mph.

 

If I count electric at 100 MPGe and Gas at 41, the spreadsheet pops out 53.39mpg. As 47minutes points out this car is really designed for those of us with shorter commutes. Its a big car with a big battery. You are comparing the energi to the hybrid which is not really fair. The longer your commute becomes, the more the hybrid start to make sense over the energi. 

 

My commute is 22 miles, and if all I do is drive back and forth to work I burn no fuel. With short little side trips (my norm) I usually pull into the driveway burning less then .05 gallons of gas. I have had the car a month, put over 700 miles on it and have burned about 2.5 gallons, making this car ideal for me.

 

If I had your commute and I was getting over 50 mpg in a car as nice as the fusion I still think I would be pretty happy. 

You didn't read my post. The first thing I said is I like my Energi. I'm not in love with it,but I like it. My comments on performance are right on the mark. I don't post "feel good" or "feel bad" statements unless I point that out. I don't defend any manufacturer as I own several Fords, Chevys and Pontiacs. They all have their good points and bad ones. The car should be able to average about 65mpg based on the use of the battery mode switch and my commute. The car should not be discharging going downhill with the accelerator released. I'm sure it will get there eventually, but right now it has problems. If this was a $15K or less POS I would not like it either but the added cost adds insult to injury.

[Brad Schuck]

Again, this statement reflects a total lack of understanding of what you are reading.  

 

I can instantly change the estimated range by 5 mpg by sitting in my driveway. 

Can you do it with the car plugged into a 240V level 2 charger?

[Scooter80]

I think maybe the problem, as you are now alluding to, is a defect in your car.  It seemed your original post was to do with the 2013 Fusion Energi as a whole and had some erroneaous material in it when looked at that way.

 

Now, if Ford can't fix the problems you're exhibiting and they have confirmed, then I can see your dissatisfaction.  But, even re-reading your original post again, leads me to believe you just weren't going to be happy.  

 

I for one hope Ford can address your problems and you come out happier on the other end.  I'm sorry you had to get the bad egg, but I guess there's always one.

[Brad Schuck]

Again, this statement reflects a total lack of understanding of what you are reading.  

 

I can instantly change the estimated range by 5 mpg by sitting in my driveway. 

 

p.s.  I have no idea what you're talking about regarding your 45 mile commute.  We're you expecting to go 45 mile non-stop in EV mode? 

Just for you. I drive 45 miles each way and around 10 miles at lunch, 45 * 2 = 90 + 10 =100. With two FULL charges in between. If the car gets around 20 miles per charge then the total hybrid commute each way is around 25 miles. If I get 999.9mpge EV miles for 20 miles and 40mpg for 25 miles and 10 EV miles at lunch, I should use around .6 gallons of gas each way resulting in a staggering 91 MPG. It ain't happening and I don't expect it to. But I do think it should be around 60 with concessions for driving conditions.

[Brad Schuck]

I think maybe the problem, as you are now alluding to, is a defect in your car.  It seemed your original post was to do with the 2013 Fusion Energi as a whole and had some erroneaous material in it when looked at that way.

 

Now, if Ford can't fix the problems you're exhibiting and they have confirmed, then I can see your dissatisfaction.  But, even re-reading your original post again, leads me to believe you just weren't going to be happy.  

 

I for one hope Ford can address your problems and you come out happier on the other end.  I'm sorry you had to get the bad egg, but I guess there's always one.

As the evidence of my experience is based on my only PHEV vehicle, unless one were to own several of them, I can only assume that this is the way they are. No offense meant and none taken.

[Energized]

Can you do it with the car plugged into a 240V level 2 charger?

 

Yes, absolutely. 

 

What you're reading is not the level of the battery, it is only a prediction of range based on a variety of inputs that constantly change. 

 

It sounds as if you are trying to read it like a fuel gauge, it is not.  It is like a Miles-to-Empty meter on a full gasoline car, its the computers best guess of the future.

 

 

How many gallons of gas have you put in the car so far?

 

 

 

Have you tried clearing the MyKey yet which forces the Lane Keeping on?

Edited April 10, 2013 at 03:41 AM by Energized

[Energized]

 The car should not be discharging going downhill with the accelerator released.

 

Is your A/C on, or your lights when this is happening?    The A/C will show a draw going uphill or downhill.

Edited April 10, 2013 at 03:34 AM by Energized

[Brad Schuck]

Is your A/C on, or your lights when this is happening?    The A/C will show a draw going uphill or downhill.

I drive with the climate off as this is a major drain on the system and I really don't need it. Opening the moonroof to the inclined position and cracking the back windows is perfect for me. The DRLs don't draw off the system, they draw off the 12V, so the dealer says. The battery distance to hybrid only mode is based on my driving. As I have been getting around 60mpg, according to Ford, I should see 21 every time it is fully charged. It won't go down 20% one day and then another 12% the next. At that rate the battery would be useless in about 5 days.

When they get it fixed I will report what the problem was, good or bad.

 As far as the ammenities of the car, they are what I expected otherwise, I would not have bought it. The issue with the colors on the nav screen should be addressed as an issue with the ADA so everbody can use the information they put out.  If you are going to put adjustable pedals for short people, then put adjustable colors for color-blind people. I am neither, but members of my family are.

[Scooter80]

I'd like to echo that the battery DTE gauge on display is NOT a charge level, but a rough estimate based on past trips and current behaviors. EVERYTHING will factor into it. I verified this just tonight. Unhooked from charger it showed 19 miles. While enroute to work, I played with climate, turning it off and then truly off, manually disabling the a/c compressor, and I gained 2 miles. Turned a/c compressor back on with climate still in manual and lost the 2 miles again on the gauge. Repeated once more with same result. Btw, as seen in other postings to this forum, it takes an extra step or two to truly disable the a/c compressor. Simply turning climate off doesn't do it!

 

And I believe ANY 12v accessory or function (yes, headlights) will drain the hybrid battery as it is the hybrid battery that charges the 12v battery from what I understand. I haven't spent a lot of time in the engine bay to see if there is a true alternator or not, but have heard the HV battery does the charging, not an alternator.

Edited April 10, 2013 at 06:32 AM by Scooter80

[Brad Schuck]

I'd like to echo that the battery DTE gauge on display is NOT a charge level, but a rough estimate based on past trips and current behaviors. EVERYTHING will factor into it. I verified this just tonight. Unhooked from charger it showed 19 miles. While enroute to work, I played with climate, turning it off and then truly off, manually disabling the a/c compressor, and I gained 2 miles. Turned a/c compressor back on with climate still in manual and lost the 2 miles again on the gauge. Repeated once more with same result. Btw, as seen in other postings to this forum, it takes an extra step or two to truly disable the a/c compressor. Simply turning climate off doesn't do it!

 

And I believe ANY 12v accessory or function (yes, headlights) will drain the hybrid battery as it is the hybrid battery that charges the 12v battery from what I understand. I haven't spent a lot of time in the engine bay to see if there is a true alternator or not, but have heard the HV battery does the charging, not an alternator.

There is a display on the left panel that indicates accessory battery draw. Mine indicates zero as the only thing I use is the radio that I can truly control. As my commute is in LA with the most severe load being an overpass, I would truly expect the full range of the battery to be the maximum. I drive at a moderate 62mph because that was the most efficient speed for my 2010 and it is a starting point for this model.The thing that worries me the most is the engine only gas mileage indicator won't go above 25mpg unless I take my foot off the pedal entirely in which case the car slows down VERY quickly, like there is a drag on it. The dealer stated that the CMax has had the same issues and that it needs a "break in" period of around 3 to 4 thousand miles for the brakes to "let go" whatever that means. If the brakes are dragging for 3 or 4 thousands miles that's a poor design, not a defect.

[Brad Schuck]

I'd like to echo that the battery DTE gauge on display is NOT a charge level, but a rough estimate based on past trips and current behaviors. EVERYTHING will factor into it. I verified this just tonight. Unhooked from charger it showed 19 miles. While enroute to work, I played with climate, turning it off and then truly off, manually disabling the a/c compressor, and I gained 2 miles. Turned a/c compressor back on with climate still in manual and lost the 2 miles again on the gauge. Repeated once more with same result. Btw, as seen in other postings to this forum, it takes an extra step or two to truly disable the a/c compressor. Simply turning climate off doesn't do it!

 

And I believe ANY 12v accessory or function (yes, headlights) will drain the hybrid battery as it is the hybrid battery that charges the 12v battery from what I understand. I haven't spent a lot of time in the engine bay to see if there is a true alternator or not, but have heard the HV battery does the charging, not an alternator.

If the hybrid battery charges the 12V battery, the engineers at Ford have dropped the ball. If one were to need 12V it only takes a DC to DC converter at a lot less weight to do this. Current modules for that much power would weigh less than a tenth of what a battery weighs and be much smaller. I would certainly hope that this isn't the case.

[Scooter80]

If the hybrid battery charges the 12V battery, the engineers at Ford have dropped the ball. If one were to need 12V it only takes a DC to DC converter at a lot less weight to do this. Current modules for that much power would weigh less than a tenth of what a battery weighs and be much smaller. I would certainly hope that this isn't the case.

What you're saying makes sense for sure, but then, since we know there IS a 12v battery in the car, try to account for those who can go for weeks, months, or a year without the ICE kicking on. How are we charging the 12v battery then? We know Ford has accounted for this lack of use of the ICE on the fuel side as they have programmed in a "fresh fuel cycle." There is no "top off 12v battery" cycle for the ICE.

 

I am sure there IS a dc-dc converter, for the specific purpose of keeping the 12v system charged and healthy. There is the obvious lack of storage on the 12v side with only a dc-dc converter and no battery, that would cause other problems and make the hybrids (plug-ins or straight hybrids) an altogether different animal than a conventional car. Something I am sure they're not willing to do for cost/trim/model line continuity reasons.

Edited April 10, 2013 at 07:29 AM by Scooter80

[Scooter80]

There is a display on the left panel that indicates accessory battery draw. Mine indicates zero as the only thing I use is the radio that I can truly control. As my commute is in LA with the most severe load being an overpass, I would truly expect the full range of the battery to be the maximum. I drive at a moderate 62mph because that was the most efficient speed for my 2010 and it is a starting point for this model.The thing that worries me the most is the engine only gas mileage indicator won't go above 25mpg unless I take my foot off the pedal entirely in which case the car slows down VERY quickly, like there is a drag on it. The dealer stated that the CMax has had the same issues and that it needs a "break in" period of around 3 to 4 thousand miles for the brakes to "let go" whatever that means. If the brakes are dragging for 3 or 4 thousands miles that's a poor design, not a defect.

 

You're absolutely right. Having to break in brakes in order for them to "let go" would be a flaw in a design. A dangerous flaw. And ridiculous for your dealer to suggest is the case. I think you should try to get your dealer to elaborate and if they continue on this line, you need a new dealer.

 

I can tell you my brakes are not and never have been engaged in the least when I let off the gas. Now, that is physical friction brakes. Regenerative braking WILL engage at release of the accelerator, but I'm sure you knew that. And the drag that those cause during coasting would be nothing close to a friction brake dragging. It is not designed in to have the friction brakes drag during beak-in. So, if you truly are experiencing this, you ARE experiencing a defect. The norm for regen braking/coasting drag is equal to that of a conventional ICE's drag. Since an Atkinson cycle ICE mated to an eCVT does not provide this drag when running, let alone when not, they have programmed the regen brakes to provide this drag to forward motion, and boost to battery. Hopefully your dealer was referencing THIS drag and maybe there is some sort of firmware tweak to modify this normal behavior to be more to what you're used to. Again, I hope your dealer follows through and can make it right.

[47Minutes]

I am sure there IS a dc-dc converter, for the specific purpose of keeping the 12v system charged and healthy.

 

From the warranty...

 

The following hybrid parts are covered during this extended coverage

period: high-voltage battery, hybrid continuously variable transmission,

Inverter System Controller (ISC), DC/DC converter, high-voltage

battery connector, battery pack fan assembly, thermistor probe, Hybrid

Battery Pack Sensor Module (HBPSM), Battery Energy Control Module

(BECM), and the PHEV onboard charger.