A/C Compressor does not turn off

[Hewlettk]

Made a little trip to the Dealership after 9 days of owning the car...

Even after reading the Manual, I couldn't figure out how to turn off A/C Compressor

without shutting down the Climate Control System.

According to the Owner's Manual, there are 3 apparent ways to turn the A/C off and on.

1. The 'touch screen' A/C soft key (with a green indicator showing when it is on)

2. The 'touch pad' A/C button below the screen (with a green light showing the A/C is on)

3. Voice Command "A/C On" or "A/C Off"

Any of the above turns off the light next to the A/C button.

However, the A/C Compressor is still running!!!

 

Ford claims, this is the way it was engineered to work. People on this Forum and the Fusion Hybrid forum know this is not right.

The Dealer suggested this 'Workaround'

1. Go into the Climate Control section of the MFD 

2. Press the Dashboard Vents ventilation soft key option below the AUTO softkey on the MFD.

3. Touch the A/C button bottom middle of the MFD

This is the only way to disengage the A/C compressor and gain 3-4 miles of EV range.

The Climate Control System does not work according to the instructions in the Manual.

No other Ford car or truck works this way.

I would like to know that Ford knows of this defect so they can fix it in their next upgrade.

 

Ford Fusion Energi Titanium 2013 638 mi.

Edited January 28, 2014 at 04:47 AM by Hewlettk

[47Minutes]

I noticed the exact same behavior on my Energi Titanium.  Did your dealer not have any options for correcting this climate control behavior?  I was planning to go visit mine this weekend.

 

I think expected solution would be simply turn off the AC from the button or the touch screen and have that  just work.  That is what I would expect.

[Hewlettk]

I am happy I am not the only one with this issue. Thank you 47 Minute! Apparently this is a programming issue.

 

The good news is David at Ford Autonation Delray knew the workaround to get the compressor to turn off. :-)

 

The bad news is Ford is in denial there is a problem. David said "you have to spend time with the owners manual".

Following the OM instructions does not get the A/C compressor to turn off. :-(

 

Thank heavens for Dave though. Felt like I was a Martian when I described the problem to the SA. He was very patient and willing to accept I wasn't nuts when I described the issue though.

 

And yes, there are really two problems.

First the A/C should shut off when you touch the "A/C" button or the touch screen and

Secondly, the system should go off auto when you touch "Auto" button. And back on auto when you touch it again. That is how a lot of other cars work!

 

Hoping Ford addresses this next software upgrade! Wonder if they know?

 

[meyersnole]

I have a question of how to tell the AC is still on if the light is off?  I have not had the pleasure of running the AC yet, while still technically being in the south it really has not been hot enough here to run the system yet.

[Energized]

Based on previous vehicles I've owned with Auto climate control systems, it's working as designed. 

 

As long as you have the system in "Auto", the system will do what it takes to get the interior to the desired temperature and that includes automatic control of the A/C and automatic control of where the air comes out. 

 

You can not have it in "Auto" and also manually command the A/C compressor off.  This makes sense because Auto means the system is automatically doing what it takes to get to the desired temp, and that can't happen if the system can't use the A/C.  You only really have complete manual control of the A/C compressor when the system is out of "Auto" mode.

 

As noted, the method to get out of Auto mode is to press one of the manual modes, like the Vent button, then you can manually control the A/C. 

 

Pressing either the capacitive "Auto" button or the resistive "Auto" button, will not take it out of Auto mode.  This makes sense because you have to instruct the system what mode to put it in to instead of Auto, like Vent, Floor, or Defrost for example.   The "Auto" buttons are only really used to change from manual mode back to Auto mode.

 

Another item to note, you mentioned the A/C button "with a green indicator showing when it is on", mine is orange not green. 

 

 

Here's a message board post for a Toyota RAV4 from way back in 2006 that describes a similar functionality.  Therefore, I don't think this is a design issue and I would not expect any changes to be made.

 

"When in auto mode, then the light will be on to inform the driver that the ac compressor will cool if needed, though at low ambients very little or no cooling will be done, after all you did select "Automatic" mode so the car will try to maintain the temperature set point however it can without intervention from the driver, if the driver needed to turn the ac on and off, then it wouldn't be automatic.

In short the ac light serves no purpose other than to provide the driver with a little entertainment turning the light on and off for no aparrantly good reason."

 

http://www.rav4world.com/forums/99-4-3-mechanical/62729-climate-control-limited-c-light-2.html

Edited April 6, 2013 at 04:08 PM by Energized

[rprobst]

The other way to tell that the AC compressor is still on is to look at energy consumption in the left-side screen. I could not get that to go to zero until I used the climate screen to select a ventilation option and turn off Auto.

 

Look, it could be easier! In my beloved '98 Audi, there is a button to turn the compressor off. Nothing more complicated than that. There is also an Auto button, which turns the compressor on as needed.

 

Since people who buy Energis care about energy consumption, Ford needs to update the software to make it easy to turn off the compressor when not wanted.

Edited April 6, 2013 at 04:36 PM by rprobst

[Energized]

Ford needs to update the software to make it easy to turn off the compressor when not wanted.

There is no need to update the software, the functionality to do what you describe already exists.

 

What you want is manual mode, the system already has a manual mode and that mode lets you have full control of the A/C. Just press the A/C button on and off as you wish.

Edited April 6, 2013 at 09:00 PM by Energized

[Hewlettk]

Energized, you are absolutely right, we want manual mode. So when the light next to the "AUTO" button is out, the system should be in manual mode, I think you would agree so far?

Now we want the A/C compressor off, so we push the "A/C" button and the light goes out. We are in manual mode since the AUTO light is out, but the A/C compressor keeps running. So there is a software/control issue here and it needs to be fixed.

You say the functionality exists, because you can go into the Climate Control panel and illogically push some other button to disengage the AUTO mode, but it is nonsensical and completely not in keeping with how every other Ford product I have driven functions(or any other make I have driven), and doesn't relate to the buttons with the lights.

 

I have had cars from Ford, Toyota, Volkswagen, Acura, BMW, Mercedes, and Land Rover, and they (including the Fords) will keep the A/C compressor off if turn off the A/C compressor. The ONLY time the Climate control overrides the A/C off button on most cars is when you activate the windshield defrost mode to assure the widow clears quickly.

[Hewlettk]

Responidng to your earlier post regarding the A/C light being simply for entertainment, you neglected to quote the entire post which explains that in a car with a clutchless variable displacement A/C compressor the compressor is always on.

The problem with your argument is the Fusion Energi does not have a variable displacement A/C compressor.
The Energi (and Hybrid Fords and Toyota/Lexus) use an electric A/C compressor (because the engine is not turning to power an A/C Compressor). And the compressors in our cars don't need to be variable displacement, engineered for greater efficiency accross all engine speeds, since they are not hooked up to the engine.

The entire post from http://www.rav4world...-c-light-2.html reads:

" The principal of a clutchless ac compressor is simple enough, the ac compressor will be running all the time that the engine is running. even when the light is off. the flow of refrigerant is controled by a diverter valve that when no ac is needed will pass the refrigerant flow through an internal loop. As ac is needed more and more, then the valve will direct more refrigerant to the expansion device. this flow is controled by means of various sensors reporting to the HVAC controler monitoring cabin temperature, air off temperature ambient temp, water temp etc....

When in auto mode, then the light will be on to inform the driver that the ac compressor will cool if needed, though at low ambients very little or no cooling will be done, after all you did select "Automatic" mode so the car will try to maintain the temperature set point however it can without intervention from the driver, if the driver needed to turn the ac on and off, then it wouldn't be automatic.

In short the ac light serves no purpose other than to provide the driver with a little entertainment turning the light on and off for no aparrantly good reason. If the compressor fails, then the rubber shear clutch will shear allowing the ac pully to spin rather than allowing the drive belt to burn through and causing the car to be stranded, the car can then be driven to your nearest dealer who will be delighted to present you with a suitably hefty bill "

And an explanation of the variable displacement clutchless A/C can be found here
http://blogs.howstuffworks.com/2009/06/30/how-do-clutchless-auto-air-cconditioner-compressors-work/ and reads as follows:

"As long as you have gone to the trouble of installing a variable displacement pump, you can eliminate the clutch. The swash plate on the compressor can be set to a flat position so that the compressor doesn’t do anything as it rotates. To “turn on” the compressor, the swash plate simply moves to an angled position."

And finally the RAV4world post says "after all you did select "Automatic" mode" someone shouldn't be able to turn off the A/C Compressor. Logically de-selecting "Automatic" mode should allow us to turn off the A/C Compressor.

[Hewlettk]

Sorry, the variable compressor link got cut short. It is:

http://blogs.howstuffworks.com/2009/06/30/how-do-clutchless-auto-air-cconditioner-compressors-work/

[Energized]

Manual Mode is activated by selecting any of the following symbols:

 

Vent

Floor

Vent/Floor

Defrost 

Defrost/Floor

 

You can tell you are in Manual Mode by looking for two things:

 

1) both "Auto" lights go off

 

2) the white outline and word "Auto" around the Vent, Floor, etc symbols disappears and the word "Auto" moves over to the fan speed, indicating the Fan is still in Auto.

 

 

While in this level of Manual Mode, the Fan speed stays automatic. 

 

To go into Manual fan speed mode, select + or - and the white outline around the fan disappears and the word "Auto" over the fan symbol goes away.

 

While in either level of Manual Mode, pressing the A/C button will manually select and deselect the A/C function.

 

 

If your system does not operate the way I described then you may have a problem which is possible since you stated your system has green lights instead of orange when in Auto. 

 

I have no idea why you would have green lights instead of orange.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited April 6, 2013 at 10:53 PM by Energized

[Hewlettk]

Energizer,

 

In this picture of the Climate Control System, A/C Compressor shouldn't be on. Do you agree?

 

47Minutes seems to be having the same problem.

 

Hewlett

Edited April 7, 2013 at 12:02 AM by Hewlettk

[47Minutes]

In reference to Hewlett's attached photo and my own expectations for my Energi, I would expect the AC to NOT be running with the configuration noted in the photo.  Just because the direction the air takes to the cabin is still set to "auto" doesn't, in my mind, mean the AC should be expected to run when the indicator light for AC is not illuminated to inform me that it is in use.

 

Why even have an AC button if turning it off from that button doesn't do anything but turn out the light on the button?

 

In my 2010 Fusion Hybrid if I powered on the climate control it, by default, always started out in AUTO.  Most times this meant the AC was on though not always to cool.  If I pressed the AC button to disable the light, it also disabled the AC compressor.  Doing this also caused the AUTO light to turn off effectively putting it into manual mode.  At this point all other settings remained where they were when it was under auto.  If the air direction was on vent it continued on vent, if on the floor it continued on the floor.  I never had to give the system a 2nd input of manually setting the air direction in order for the AC to actually go off. 

 

It was simple, press the AC button and the light goes out and compressor stops.  Press it again, light goes on and compressor comes on. 

Edited April 7, 2013 at 02:23 AM by 47Minutes

[Russael]

I have a 1999 Expedition with the ETAC system.  If I keep the system in auto it will kick on the A/C compressor but doesn't indicate as such in the display.  The only way I can make A/C show up is by hitting one of the A/C buttons.  Not sure if it runs when it's cold, but I know it does when I hit defrost.  Almost all of the time, I choose manual modes (such as feet and defrost, which will bring warm air to the windshield but NOT run the A/C compressor).  I usually drive with the windows down in summer, but if it rains, I'll sometimes choose the vent option.  When it gets unbearably hot (usually around 95 is where my tolerance is at), I'll just hit 'auto' and the A/C kicks on, but again, doesn't indicate on the display that the compressor is on... I can just hear it engage.

 

The truck's fuel economy is bad enough without that thing running.  I think I've actually used the A/C fewer than 30 times for the life of the truck so far. :)

 

As far as the image above goes with the Fusion's temperature control... I would think the A/C would run in that setting if my truck is of any indication.  Choosing the vent mode and taking it out of auto should turn the compressor off (same with feet, and should be the same with feet/defrost).

 

The auto setting is pretty agressive with the compressor from my experience which is why I don't use it.  I just let it automatically control the fan speed and I'm good. :)

Edited April 7, 2013 at 02:44 AM by Russael

[47Minutes]

But it doesn't make sense that the AC indicator is off when the compressor is on.  If it is by design that it still runs when the air direction control is still set in auto, fine.  But have the two AC labeled indicators show as much and turn the lights on so we know that's what it's doing.

 

In my 2010 changing any setting caused auto to disengage and any setting other than the one you changed remained in the operation that auto had it on.  If I changed the fan it took it out of auto and the AC would continue to run.  If I changed it from vent to floor, the fan continued at the same speed and the AC would keep running.  If I turned off the AC the fan continued at the same speed and the air direction remained wherever auto had it set.  This makes sense.

 

In this car, it operates the same way with the exception of turning off the AC.  That seems to be the only change from auto that will keep the rest of the settings running in auto.  I don't feel the driver should have to select AC off and then Vent to actually make it go off.

[Russael]

I understand your point completely.  However, Ford has chosen to let auto mode be fully automatic without additional indicators of what subsystems are running (A/C compressor, and in the Fusion's case, the electric heater).  This is what I'm used to and expected the Fusion to do the same thing.  I do not plan on running it in automatic mode.  However, it will automatically adjust temperature (if I set it for 72, it'll warm up to 72, but if ambient temperature is too high, it'll just keep running the fan at full speed since it'll never get cooler than ambient) and should also automatically adjust fan speed.  I just direct what type of climate I want... vent, feet, feet and defrost are the options I expect to choose, unless it's 95 degrees outside, and then I'll just hit the auto button.

 

If you picked vent and feet and touched the A/C button, then you should get an indicator light that the compressor is running.  But again, in full auto mode, it isn't going to show any indication of what other systems are active.

 

I'll have to ask my friend who has a 2012 Focus with the ETAC system if it shows if the A/C compressor is running or not while in auto mode.  I THINK hers does, but NOT in the MyFord touch display... she's got a second climate control display under the radio that shows it.

Edited April 7, 2013 at 03:25 AM by Russael

[Energized]

Energizer,

 

In this picture of the Climate Control System, A/C Compressor shouldn't be on. Do you agree?

 

47Minutes seems to be having the same problem.

 

Hewlett

Based on your photo, it is working exactly as I would expect and as it was designed. 

 

In the mode you selected in the photo, the A/C compressor is still in Auto mode, only the fan is in Manual mode.

 

You can tell this because the white line and the word "Auto" around the air flow buttons are still showing.  This signifies that you are STILL in one of several Auto modes.  You are in the Auto mode that allows the A/C to come on to control temp. 

 

As I explained earlier, there are actually different levels of Auto Mode and different Manual modes.  

 

The Auto mode you are depicting in the photo is the Auto mode that allows the computer to retain control of the A/C compressor (along with the auto selection of where the air comes from, among other things).   

 

You entered this particular level of Auto mode by manually changing the Fan speed.  Note that there is no white line or word "Auto" above the fan indicator.

 

The lack of an amber "Auto" light on the lower panel, and the lack of a blue "Auto" light on the touch screen only indicates that the system is not in the FULL auto mode.  Those lights are illuminated when in FULL Auto mode.    Think of those buttons as short cuts to FULL AUTO.

 

In summary, what you pictured above is MANUAL FAN mode, but AUTO Air Flow/Temperature control.  In this mode the computer controls the compressor but not the fan speed.

 

My previous post indicates how to get into the MANUAL mode that allows the driver full control of the A/C compressor.

 

You will know you are in the proper mode when the white line and the word AUTO above the air flow symbols disappear.

Edited April 7, 2013 at 11:37 PM by Energized

[47Minutes]

I think I'll use some tape to just cover up the AC button on the center console as it really serves no purpose.

 

 

Now I'm not really going to do that.  I am simply, and clearly, frustrated going from my 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid which would "full manual" whenever I changed ANY of the climate settings as dictated by the auto mode.  Be that airflow, fan speed or hitting the illuminated AC button (which, btw, did actually turn off the AC compressor in that car).  Now I get 1/2 manual (1/2 auto) when I use the AC button and have the additional step of changing the magical airflow setting off auto to get what I actually want.

 

I get it's a minor thing to bitch about, but it is a bit of a pain to have to pull up climate control on MFT to gain access to the all powerful airflow controls and make two selections.  I'm going to connect with a buddy of mine that a Fusion S and see how his behaves since he doesn't have the MFT for control of the climate.  It might be the same thing.  And if it is, I'll still be unhappy. :baby:

 

~Distracted Driver

[Energized]

If pressing the "Vent" button is too much work, keep in mind you only have to do it once.  

 

Once you are in Manual mode it will stay in Manual mode until you press Auto.

 

While in Manual mode you have full control of the A/C operation, you can press the A/C button on and off all you want.

 

 

 

Personally, I like the flexibility offered by having a partial manual mode.   

 

If I get in to a hot car and the A/C is blowing full bore with the fan on super high, I can manually lower the fan speed to make a phone call without affecting the "Max A/C" operation and it's automatic transition to normal A/C operation.  The system automatically recirculates air until the cabin temperature is sufficiently reduced.  When done with the phone call I can just press the Auto button and I'm back in full auto mode again and let the fan do its thing.   This can all be done by simply pressing the fan button on the lower panel or the touchscreen.  Both work.   If I was in full manual mode I would have to be pressing  MAX AC,  then normal AC, along with manually adjusting the fan speed.

 

The Voice controls will also put the system in Manual mode or Auto Mode, it recognizes lots of commands for the Climate system.

 

For Example:

 

say <CLIMATE>   wait for tone

 

say <VENT>   or  <MANUAL>  or  <AUTO>

 

the system automatically goes out of Auto mode and into Manual mode without pressing anything on the touch screen

[shaggy314]

Ok, I was able to play along using the MFT iPad app. It leads me to a question to you that have the 2013 system: In my current car, I have a mode where, with the sunroof cracked open, no A/C fan on, I get a fairly nice vent flow through the car that most times I never run the a/c or heat as I can change the temp without any power from car. In short the airflow through the vent without a fan and my adjusting just the temp is usually enough until sub 50's and over 85's... using no power.

 

Can I do this on the 2013 Fusion? Or I am spoiled by my 1993 technology (cheapness)?

 

It sounds like the vent with A/C off, if I set a temp, will run either a fan or the compressor, yes?

Edited April 9, 2013 at 04:34 PM by shaggy314

[Energized]

AFAIK there is no way of having the Vent mode on without the fan also running, although I haven't tried that.  In Vent mode you can control the A/C on or off.

[Hewlettk]

"Why even have an AC button if turning it off from that button doesn't do anything but turn out the light on the button?"

 

Great question 47minutes

 

Headed to the dealership tomorrow to sort this out, (and the two right windows on the car don't raise and lower fully).

 

So glad there are logical Energi owners out there.

 

rprobst and 47Minutes have it right. You should NOT have to go to the Multi Function Screen to turn off the A/C compressor.

 

Page 123 of the Owners manual states "  A/C: Press the button to turn air conditioning off and on. " (nothing about going to the MFD, choosing an airflow button, etc.)

 

The manual makes perfect sense.

 

Every A/C car out there BMWs VWs Toyotas (turned in my Prius Five 35,000mi for the Energi) Range Rovers, and including the Fords and Lincolns I drive on a regular basis (family and rentals) all turn off the A/C compressor when you hit the A/C button.

 

In reference to Hewlett's attached photo and my own expectations for my Energi, I would expect the AC to NOT be running with the configuration noted in the photo.  Just because the direction the air takes to the cabin is still set to "auto" doesn't, in my mind, mean the AC should be expected to run when the indicator light for AC is not illuminated to inform me that it is in use.

 

Why even have an AC button if turning it off from that button doesn't do anything but turn out the light on the button?

 

In my 2010 Fusion Hybrid if I powered on the climate control it, by default, always started out in AUTO.  Most times this meant the AC was on though not always to cool.  If I pressed the AC button to disable the light, it also disabled the AC compressor.  Doing this also caused the AUTO light to turn off effectively putting it into manual mode.  At this point all other settings remained where they were when it was under auto.  If the air direction was on vent it continued on vent, if on the floor it continued on the floor.  I never had to give the system a 2nd input of manually setting the air direction in order for the AC to actually go off. 

 

It was simple, press the AC button and the light goes out and compressor stops.  Press it again, light goes on and compressor comes on. 

Edited April 15, 2013 at 03:45 AM by Hewlettk

[rprobst]

Headed to the dealership tomorrow to sort this out.

 

Please let us know what you find out.

[Hewlettk]

Well the car is at the dealership having the RF and RR windows repaired.

No word from the SA about the A/C compressor, so I called the Ford Customer Relationship Center 800-392-3673  and am given Case number CAS-2456xxx. Transferred to Geraldo. He listens to my problem and passes me to Philip in the EV department. Philip listened to the problem and called someone in another division at Ford. When he returned, Philip told me the reason the driver can't turn off the A/C compressor is because it is needed to "cool the battery pack". I made the observation that if that were true, then turning off the Climate Control system would overheat the battery pack, so this explanation, while plausible, probably isn't 100% accurate. There are fan(s) in the back of the car to cool the charger and battery pack. You can hear them running when the car is charging. Philip then said he can't help me because the AutoNation Ford dealership would have to acknowledge that an issue exists. The dealership would then be able to access Ford's technical resource department to fix the issue. I said that would be OK, but that David at AutoNation didn't seem willing to recognize there was an issue (reasoning that David at the AutoNation dealership gave me the MFD workaround and didn't admit there was an issue), therefore I am in the catch 22 position of not getting the problem solved, either through AutoNation or with Philip at Ford. Philip responded he couldn't help me any further and would pass the problem to the supervisory level. I should expect a call from the Service Manager or a Regional Manager at AutoNation within the next 4 business days and a call from Ford within the next 2 hours. I have a new case number CAS-2457xxx.

[47Minutes]

Thanks for taking up the torch.  I look forward to your updates.  I'm trying to get in to my service advisor to go over my list of "what the...?" and this one is on it.  I got bothered about it again this morning.

 

All weekend I operated climate as outside vent only and AC off.  I have learned that just turning climate on and off will have it resume my last settings with the exception of the fan speed which always seems to come on as auto.  This morning I decided to shortcut and just hit the fan speed button.  This put the climate on, AC ON and airflow set to Auto.  Though the "Auto" light was not on to indicate full auto.  So I had to hit the airflow for vent and the AC button to get the compressor off.

 

It just shouldn't have to be a multi-step process in my opinion.