Driving after the hybrid battery fails?

[Tayla89]

I just bought my roomates 2015 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium. It has 81k miles on it, and is under warranty to 100k miles. 

Mechanically, it checked out under inspection. The tech did warn me about how expensive it is to repair/replace the hybrid battery.

 

If/when it fails (hopefully at high mileage), will the engine still able to run with the secondary battery? I haven't called Ford yet, but I'm guessing they are not taking calls rn ?

 

Thanks ya'll! Hope you're practicing good hygiene and social distancing. Stay healthy ❤️

Tay

[jsamp]

There is only one HV battery.  The computer reserves the last ~20% for  of it for Hybrid mode.  If the battery fails completely, neither EV nor Hybrid mode will work.  I'm not sure the car will run at all with a failed battery.  If the battery degrades severely, it will still run in hybrid mode.  I haven't heard of any failed batteries (yet).

[Ffe]

I had a Toyota Prius for ELEVEN YEARS and not only did its HV battery never fail, it genuinely worked great in the last month before I sold it.  (due to a snow-related crash)

 

There's a failure rate for every part you can imagine.  Even bolts fail some percent of the time.  But I'm strongly wondering if it there's not also a lot of fear mongering BS from battery haters.

 

Gas-powered vehicles are an enormous industry.  In my city, their hatred of Tesla for instance is so pronounced that all the dealers threatened to leave the city's annual Auto Show if Tesla was allowed in to fairly compete.

 

So I'm not sure, but I think it's possible that the HV batteries simply don't go bad on any reasonable time scale worth worrying about.  A car you use every day on public streets will get destroyed on average what, every 20 years? 15 years?  Or you'll want something new by then anyway...  Maybe the old addage about worrying about how expensive it will be to replace the traction battery is nonsense.  I sure hope so!

 

And on the flipside, I've seen videos of HV battery repair.  Not recommended by the manufacturers of course, and nothing to take on lightly...  But in the times they do fail it'susually just one cell out of dozens.  Replacing one cell can't be that expensive. 20-30 bucks in for the cell w/shipping and a few hours time.

[murphy]

You didn't include hazardous duty pay for working around 350 volts DC.  It doesn't make you jump, it kills you.

The battery is supposed to last the life of the car.  If the battery was dead there would be no way to start the engine.  The car does not have a traditional starter motor.

[Ffe]

That depends where it bites you, but I don't want to break things, especially if I'm what's getting broke!  I have a pair of HV gloves that I'd probably use while initially disarming the pack, and bisect the cells into ~20v groups before testing them individually.  They don't see much action, but I got them to do hot work on 277/480 and they're good for ten years, rated 22kv I think.  It was in the kv range.  I wasn't thinking about DC when I picked them out but I bet they'd do fine.

 

I'm actually thinking of taking the online courses from Weber University's automotive dept.  The professor is the WeberAuto youtube channel, which is an INCREDIBLE resource learning how PHVEs work, the Fusion Energi in particular!  So I bet it would be money well spent.  And the first class is on HVDC safety.

 

All that said, as long as the warranty is good, I'm not going to waste my time fixing a covered part!  That's Ford's responsibility!

[stevon]

Tayla89,

 

Well, that depends if the car moves or not. With an ECVT you need a partially functional battery at least.  See:

 

The Fusion and other hybrids use the electric motors to apply torque and rpm to the road wheel, thus replacing a traditional transmission with lots of gears and multiple clutches (automatic). In a traditional ICE car, the Autonomous transmission uses a separate system of gears, clutches and/or a torque converter taking power from (engine) to apply torque and rpm to the road wheel. In the Fusion Energi/hybrid, all of the electronics will still need to function to move/shift/start the car. Your range may degrade but you still need some battery at least. It's not like you can remove the traction battery and still have a drivable car.

 

Stephen

Edited March 22, 2021 at 04:57 PM by stevon
ECVT how it works

[ProDigit]

My review is of the hybrid, not the energi. 

If you want to extend the life of the energi, never charge it over 80-85%. But if you must, charge it on a 120v outlet, not an L2 charger, and time the charging, so the battery will hit close to full just before you drive off. Don't let it sit with a fully charged battery for too long.

 

The Ford fusion hybrid battery will more than likely retain it's full power and range up until 100k miles. After this, it slowly degrades. Mine made it to 94k miles before a noticeable drop in ev range and power was noticed by me. From other users, it seems the battery will slowly continue to degrade, and this is shown in less and less ev range and overall MPG.

While new the ffh could get close to 50mpg, at 100k miles that average is closer to 45mpg, and at 125k miles, it's closer to 40mpg. At around 150k miles the average MPG hovers around 37mpg, and at 175k miles the hybrid battery is basically only used to kickstart the engine, with hardly any ev range left.

 

The best thing you can do, is but a second hand hvb off ebay, have it shipped to a local mechanic, and swapped out. You should find deals from $1k to $2k. They should last you at least another 80k to 120k miles. Installation fees shouldn't be more than $500, as it's quite literally 4 bolts, a fan blower and some cables to disconnect.

 

Changing it out at the dealer costs $7k. It'll be new, but it won't be a bargain at those prices.

Edited July 30, 2023 at 05:45 PM by ProDigit
Energi section update.

[jsamp]

You say you are talking about a hybrid, then talk about HV charging, then compare life of a hybrid.  You're mixing your metaphors, so to speak.  Battery life on a hybrid will be longer than an Energi.  Some Energi's have started showing significant degradation in ~30k miles.  I babied mine and it stayed great until ~90k (still doing good, but not great at 110k).  That's as much due to how you drive it as anything. 

 

Yes, charging to only ~80% is a good way to extend the life of the battery.  That is why the hybrids stay in a narrow range of SOC.  Charging 240V vs 120V hasn't been proven to make any difference on battery life.  I'm not saying you're wrong, but nothing proves you right either.  240V charging is still in the <.5C range so not hard on the battery.   Worst things are high drain rate (lead foot in EV mode), high temps, and keeping battery at 100% too much.  These are mostly Energi issues as the hybrid will always use the ICE upon demand and always keeps the battery in the middle SOC range.

[jsamp]

On 7/30/2023 at 10:36 AM, ProDigit said:

 

The best thing you can do, is but a second hand hvb off ebay, have it shipped to a local mechanic, and swapped out. You should find deals from $1k to $2k. They should last you at least another 80k to 120k miles. Installation fees shouldn't be more than $500, as it's quite literally 4 bolts, a fan blower and some cables to disconnect.

 

Changing it out at the dealer costs $7k. It'll be new, but it won't be a bargain at those prices.

 

Another good option is Greentecauto.com.  They have 2013-2015 Fusion hybrid batteries for <$3k with a 3 year warranty.  They have garages around the country and even offer mobile installs (for a price).