The difference in my home electric bill was....

[jeff_h]

Pick up a Kill-A-Watt and put it between the wall outlet and the charger.  It will tell you exactly how many KWH it took to charge the battery.

 

Thanks for the tip, I just ordered one.

[meyersnole]

Pick up a Kill-A-Watt and put it between the wall outlet and the charger.  It will tell you exactly how many KWH it took to charge the battery.

My last charge of a fully depleted battery took 7.09 KWH.

 

http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4400-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1366503790&sr=1-1&keywords=kill+a+watt

 

I have that exact kill-a-watt

[Scooter80]

6.8kWh used today for a full charge.  At 9.8 cents or so per kWh, this costs me less than a can of Coke! Certainly less than the snide remarker's Starbucks!

 

I charted the Charge Profile for everyone's enjoyment:

 

[murphy]

Wow.  I pay 16 cents per KWH.

It will go down during June through September when the power company gives me a $30 per month rebate to allow them to control my air conditioning compressor.  When they have an approaching system overload event they start cycling the compressor off and on every 15 minutes for the duration of the event.

[Scooter80]

Wow.  I pay 16 cents per KWH.

It will go down during June through September when the power company gives me a $30 per month rebate to allow them to control my air conditioning compressor.  When they have an approaching system overload event they start cycling the compressor off and on every 15 minutes for the duration of the event.

 

Well, they only give me $10/month for that luxury. IF they use it.

[FusionEnergi]

My home electric bill, while chargingfor a full month, was cheaper than the last 4months without the car. I looked at the May statements from the past 3 years to get a better guess. I am using possibly $5-$20 more of electric. It is just so hard to tell. I now have over 900 miles on the car and only 1.6 miles is from using the engine. For the most part I am using it as an EV.

[howardbc]

Okay, this is the deal for me. I was way over-estimating what I was being charged. I believe the actual charge to be only 18+ cents for 9 hours. I charge my car after 9PM. I buy electricity from Pear Energy who charges me 2 cents a kilowatt hour over what my former utility company, APS, charged me. (Pear supplies energy from wind mills - seriously - and the 2 cents is well worth it to me.) 

 

So the price from 9PM until midnight is .057 + 2 cents x 3 hours = 6.171 cents;

 

Then from 2am-6am = .041 + 2 cents x 6 hours = 12.246 cents;

 

Total to charge car if it takes 9 hours = 18.417 cents.

 

I'm not a mathematical whiz so let me know if I am way off base. If I drove every day (which I don't) the extra charge would only be around $5 a month. 

 

Call your electric company and find out exactly what they charge for the hours you'll be charging. That's what I did with APS and with Pear Energy. I forgot to ask what they charge on the weekend. 

 

 

[murphy]

I don't have all of the special rates.  It's a one rate for everyone all of the time utility. 

 

I take my monthly electric bill amount and divide by the number of KWH used.  The result is 16 cents per KWH. 

 

I suspect you are quoting the charge for generation and forgetting the distribution, transmission, and infrastructure charges.

[TX NRG]

So the price from 9PM until midnight is $.057 + 2 cents x 3 hours = 23.1 cents;

 

Then from 12am-6am = $.041 + 2 cents x 6 hours = 36.6 cents;

 

Total to charge car if it takes 9 hours = 59.7 cents.

 

(corrected the math)

[fpliptak]

I recently installed a Kill-A-Watt (120V) between the outlet and the Level 1 changer and got the following (limited) data:

 

Date               Charge Time (apx)     kWh Used     Rate ($/kWh)     Cost           Battery Status

05/18/2013     5:30                            7.87               0.13917             $1.10         < 25%

05/19/2013     1:45                            2.08               0.13917             $0.29         50-75%

 

Need to get more data over a longer period of time for any good statistics but at least it is a start.

 

p.s. love the Kill-A-Watt

[frank]

 

That will get me about 22 miles. In my Acura that would have cost me slightly over 1 gallon of premium, or just over $4. Happy EVing! :shift:  

 

im new and have a stupid question but i keep seeing people say about 22 miles so if the car is fully charged you are only getting 22 miles? i though it is supposed to be around 100 electric miles (slow speeds) before gas motor kicks in :headscratch:  or am i thinking all wrong here?

[murphy]

im new and have a stupid question but i keep seeing people say about 22 miles so if the car is fully charged you are only getting 22 miles? i though it is supposed to be around 100 electric miles (slow speeds) before gas motor kicks in :headscratch:  or am i thinking all wrong here?

You are thinking all wrong.  Even the all electric Focus doesn't get 100 miles.

[Russael]

im new and have a stupid question but i keep seeing people say about 22 miles so if the car is fully charged you are only getting 22 miles? i though it is supposed to be around 100 electric miles (slow speeds) before gas motor kicks in :headscratch:  or am i thinking all wrong here?

 

Like Murphy said, that's not quite right... the window sticker is fuel economy numbers.  If you look just below the 100MPG, you'll see EPA driving range for each mode.  EPA estimates for Gas + Electricity (assuming you're driving in EV auto and aren't driving all that efficiently), you can go up to an estimated 21 miles combined highway/city before switching to hybrid mode, where you can go an additional 600 miles.

 

While in the first mode, your EPA estimated fuel economy is 100MPG, since they expect you to run mostly in battery mode which is a lot more efficient than the engine running.  When you bounce back to hybrid mode, after you deplete the battery, your EPA estimate becomes 43MPG.  The more you charge and are able to plug in (such as your destinations and at home), you can keep those fuel economy numbers a lot higher.  If you ran exclusively in EV mode due to the durations of your trips, charging at destinations, etc, yes, you can stay at 100MPG or more.

 

However, I tend to treat the car like a video game and keep trying to beat my 'score'.  My current estimated driving range using EV mode is about 31 miles.  That's without climate control and all surface street travel.  With climate (air conditioning at this time), it sinks to about 24 EV miles.  Without climate, my MPGe numbers float between 150 and 190.  With, about 115MPGe.  I can't comment on hybrid mode as I have not yet run that.  So yes, you can get crazy high MPG numbers with the car, but that all depends on distance traveled and if you run out of battery power while out and about.

[frank]

Like Murphy said, that's not quite right... the window sticker is fuel economy numbers.  If you look just below the 100MPG, you'll see EPA driving range for each mode.  EPA estimates for Gas + Electricity (assuming you're driving in EV auto and aren't driving all that efficiently), you can go up to an estimated 21 miles combined highway/city before switching to hybrid mode, where you can go an additional 600 miles.

 

While in the first mode, your EPA estimated fuel economy is 100MPG, since they expect you to run mostly in battery mode which is a lot more efficient than the engine running.  When you bounce back to hybrid mode, after you deplete the battery, your EPA estimate becomes 43MPG.  The more you charge and are able to plug in (such as your destinations and at home), you can keep those fuel economy numbers a lot higher.  If you ran exclusively in EV mode due to the durations of your trips, charging at destinations, etc, yes, you can stay at 100MPG or more.

 

However, I tend to treat the car like a video game and keep trying to beat my 'score'.  My current estimated driving range using EV mode is about 31 miles.  That's without climate control and all surface street travel.  With climate (air conditioning at this time), it sinks to about 24 EV miles.  Without climate, my MPGe numbers float between 150 and 190.  With, about 115MPGe.  I can't comment on hybrid mode as I have not yet run that.  So yes, you can get crazy high MPG numbers with the car, but that all depends on distance traveled and if you run out of battery power while out and about.

thanks guys for the answers, i think i got it now...im thinking about purchasing the fusion energi but still learning all the lingo and doing research.

 

so if my work is 35 miles away half city half hwy i will get an estimated 21 miles driven then it will start using gas only right? is that what you mean by switching to hybrid mode?

[murphy]

The number of miles you get out of a full battery charge depends on how the energy is used.  The mileage estimate is based on how the car has previously been driven.  Air conditioning or heat on reduces the range.  High speed driving will reduce the range because the faster you go the higher drag from pushing air out of the way will require more power.  Once the battery is empty the car operates the same as the hybrid version of the car.  My longest regular trip is 10.5 miles on city streets so I run most of the time on electric power.  In the 2.5 months since I got the car I have used about 2.6 gallons of gasolinee.

[Russael]

thanks guys for the answers, i think i got it now...im thinking about purchasing the fusion energi but still learning all the lingo and doing research.

 

so if my work is 35 miles away half city half hwy i will get an estimated 21 miles driven then it will start using gas only right? is that what you mean by switching to hybrid mode?

 

I quasi answered your 35 mile commute question in your other thread.

 

21 miles battery range is an EPA estimate.  That range varies WIDELY.  The car has a lot of varying modes too to try to keep your EV miles in check.  If you spend 35 miles on surface streets and 35 miles on the expressway (70 miles round trip), you're getting pretty close to the 'break even' point of getting the Fusion Hybrid over the Fusion Energi.  If you drive with climate on as Murphy mentioned, that REALLY puts a massive dent in the range you can get from the battery.  My estimated battery range hovers between 30 and 32 miles... but when I turn the A/C on, it drops to about 23 - 24.  The heater will make it even worse, especially if it's cold (batteries do not perform well in cold... so I expect my estimated range to drop probably to 26 in winter without climate... don't want to think about it WITH climate... yay for pre-conditioning).  To answer your question, once your battery depletes, it goes back to a hybrid mode, which EPA estimates at 43MPG combined.  There is no 'gasoline only' mode for these cars.

 

If you're able to charge at your destination, then I would highly encourage the Energi.  If not, then it's kind of a coin toss.  From estimates I ran, the Energi will come out ahead as far as fuel costs go, but just barely.  With your commute, the Energi's upfront cost will never beat what you would've spent on the hybrid.  From a pure economics standpoint, the Hybrid would benefit you the most (lower initial cost, better hybrid EPA numbers) but for fuel savings itself, the Energi beats the Hybrid up to around 90 miles of commute... then the hybrid even beats the energi for fuel savings (using epa numbers, NOT by people's driving techniques).

 

My work commute is a whopping 6 miles 1 way, so in essence, I bought an electric car for my work commute, but I can still take the car anywhere I want without range anxiety.

[FusionDad]

We have two plug-in cars: the Fusion Energi since May 2013 and a Toyota Prius Plug-in since April 2012.

 

We charge via an L2 Leviton charger and also via a dedicated 240V outside plug and a modified Toyota EVSE cord (see www.EVSEUpgrade.com for details).

 

The Leviton L2 charger is hard-wired to a Dominion Virginia Power 2d electric meter, provided for free via Virginia's stimulus funds and installed at our cost.  This meter is on a special Dominion Virginia Power EV plan, which ranges from an inclusive 5.8 cents between 1 Am and 5 AM to an inclusive 17.2 cents between 6 AM and 10 PM , year-round.  Guess when we use the Leviton charger?

 

The other house-meter-wired 240V plug we use during the day, i.e. mostly during the weekend, and that one charges at an inclusive rate of 11.3 cents.  Also, when we happen to need to charge both cars, we use both cargers, which is convenient - again, this mostly happens on the weekends.  Both cars get charges every night.

 

Since late May 2013, i.e. about three billing cycles so far, our average cost of charging both cars at least 30 times per car per month, and really around 40+ times / car / month, averages out to an inclusive eight $$/month.  Inclusive = utility delivery, fuel and "contract" costs beyond pure electricity use.

 

Since between my son and myself we pretty much always "burn" all the traction battery energy in both cars almost every day, we get a minimum of [11 miles (Prius) + 23 miles (Fusion)] x 30 days = about 950 combined EV miles /month for the said 8 USD.  He heeee..  I like it.

 

Oh BTW - the added speed of two 240V charging points is what makes this both possible and very flexible.

 

Those who do not wish to pay a grand or so for a L2 charger should investigate www.EVSEUpgrade.com.  We upgraded the Toyota EVSE in August 2012 and never regretted it, especially now with two Plug-in vehicles in the household.

[Energized]

We have two plug-in cars: the Fusion Energi since May 2013 and a Toyota Prius Plug-in since April 2012.

 

We charge via an L2 Leviton charger and also via a dedicated 240V outside plug and a modified Toyota EVSE cord (see www.EVSEUpgrade.com for details).

 

The Leviton L2 charger is hard-wired to a Dominion Virginia Power 2d electric meter, provided for free via Virginia's stimulus funds and installed at our cost.  This meter is on a special Dominion Virginia Power EV plan, which ranges from an inclusive 5.8 cents between 1 Am and 5 AM to an inclusive 17.2 cents between 6 AM and 10 PM , year-round.  Guess when we use the Leviton charger?

 

The other house-meter-wired 240V plug we use during the day, i.e. mostly during the weekend, and that one charges at an inclusive rate of 11.3 cents.  Also, when we happen to need to charge both cars, we use both cargers, which is convenient - again, this mostly happens on the weekends.  Both cars get charges every night.

 

Since late May 2013, i.e. about three billing cycles so far, our average cost of charging both cars at least 30 times per car per month, and really around 40+ times / car / month, averages out to an inclusive eight $$/month.  Inclusive = utility delivery, fuel and "contract" costs beyond pure electricity use.

 

Since between my son and myself we pretty much always "burn" all the traction battery energy in both cars almost every day, we get a minimum of [11 miles (Prius) + 23 miles (Fusion)] x 30 days = about 950 combined EV miles /month for the said 8 USD.  He heeee..  I like it.

 

Oh BTW - the added speed of two 240V charging points is what makes this both possible and very flexible.

 

Those who do not wish to pay a grand or so for a L2 charger should investigate www.EVSEUpgrade.com.  We upgraded the Toyota EVSE in August 2012 and never regretted it, especially now with two Plug-in vehicles in the household.

 

Isn't 7.7kWh x .058/kWh x 30 days more than $8 ?

 

I'm jealous because I pay more than .30 per kWh which means it costs me more to drive in EV than it does to drive on unleaded.

[pluggedin]

Energized, unless you live in a tunnel, you need to go solar. At .30 per kWh you are being raped.

[jeff_h]

Energized, unless you live in a tunnel, you need to go solar. At .30 per kWh you are being raped.

 

isn't that a typical rate in California?  Don't know if that is where Energized is located, but did see a post from a CA member a while back who posted a rate of somewhere around there.

[dlb92]

Wow, you guys all crazy I pay 8.9 cents/kwh.  You need to elect better politicians or something. Build more power plants or something.

 

Anyone measured a ClipperCreek L2 charger with a kil-a-watt?

Edited August 24, 2013 at 03:12 AM by dlb92

[murphy]

Wow, you guys all crazy I pay 8.9 cents/kwh.  You need to elect better politicians or something. Build more power plants or something.

 

Anyone measured a ClipperCreek L2 charger with a kil-a-watt?

Is that the total amount of your bill divided by the number of kWh?

My generation charge is 8.36 cents per kWh but after adding the distribution charge and the fixed service charge it comes to 15.9 cents per kWh.

 

 

The Kill-A-Watt is a 120 volt device.  An L2 charger is a 240 volt device.  A 240 volt power meter costs slightly over $100.

[dlb92]

They have an energy charge and a fuel charge and that adds up to 8.9 cents under 1000kwh and 10.95 cents over 1000 kwh.  The only other charge is 9.8% tax and a $10.50 customer charge each month.

 

Including the tax and everything on average I paid 11.3 cents per kwh last month (used 1542 KWH)

 

I know the 240 meters are expensive that's why I don't have one and I'm asking if anyone else had one ;) .

Edited August 24, 2013 at 01:22 PM by dlb92

[murphy]

I know the 240 meters are expensive that's why I don't have one and I'm asking if anyone else had one ;) .

I have one that is permanently wired to my Leviton charger.  I record all power usage to charge the car.  I have never gone to the trouble of matching what I got from the wall with what ended up in the battery.  The efficiency is what it is and isn't going to change so there is no point in recording it.

[FusionDad]

Isn't 7.7kWh x .058/kWh x 30 days more than $8 ?

 

I'm jealous because I pay more than .30 per kWh which means it costs me more to drive in EV than it does to drive on unleaded.

Our electric bill increased by about eight USD since late May.  There are variables every month, and a three month average is indicative but not equal to a three year average etc.  Both cars have lithium ion batteries which should never be completely charged/discharged and their software thus never lets the traction batteries completely discharge or completely charge, so no two car charges are likely to have exactly the same values.  Based on a year's reading of PriusChat blog about the Prius plug-in, exact calculations via electric meter values, Kill-o-Watt values and other displays are fascinating, endless and in the end never really satisfying.  So, our empirical real-life measure, with two plug-in cars, a separate EV electrical utility meter on a Time-of-Use rate and a regular house meter with a separate 240V car plug, comes to "about" eight USD of electrical cost to charge these two beasties.  There was one month with a higher electricity use but that might have been due to guests in the house, some party activity, etc.  Because we mix the use of our standalone EV TOU charger and the regular 240V plug on the house, with two cars coming & going it's too bothersome to keep track of the monthly mix of which charging source was used more.

 

However this breaks out to a gasoline/mile cost comparison, daily short-commute EV driving is much much much cheaper within the range of the EV traction battery(ies).  By Summer 2014 we'll have more solid figures, but for now, I hope this is helpful to others.  BTW, we live in Northern Virginia.