2015 Ford Fusion EV battery charge/range

[Cheri]

I have a 2015 Ford Fusion Titanium Energi. Im wondering if there is something wrong with the EV Battery system. I live in western washington state, with mild winters and temps averaging about 40-45 F. The battery only charges to 11,12, sometimes 13 miles. (Sometimes only 9 miles). My fusion has very low mileage of 27k.  I thought these were supposed to have a 20 mile EV range???  Any advice, thoughts or input appreciated.

[murphy]

When the temperature drops below 70°F the battery efficiency starts to drop.  If you have the heat on, that comes from a 5 kW resistance heater.  Energy used to heat the cabin is not available to propel the car  You will only get the advertised range if neither the heater nor the air conditioner is in use and the temperature is above 70°F.  Speeds above 55 mph will also reduce the range since the air drag on the car increases with the square of the speed.  Like all cars you only get the advertised range if the car is driven the same as the EPA test cycle that determined the number.

 

[Cheri]

Understood about the battery range with heat on, etc.  But forget driving.- Vehicle charged all night, charge has completed.  I unplug the charge cord and without driving anywhere, it has only charged to 9, 10, 11 sometimes 12 miles.  It has never once charged to over 13 miles.  Is that 'normal'?  That's no where close to a 20 mile charge.  Is that because it's not 70 degrees outside?

[murphy]

1 hour ago, Cheri said:

Understood about the battery range with heat on, etc.  But forget driving.- Vehicle charged all night, charge has completed.  I unplug the charge cord and without driving anywhere, it has only charged to 9, 10, 11 sometimes 12 miles.  It has never once charged to over 13 miles.  Is that 'normal'?  That's no where close to a 20 mile charge.  Is that because it's not 70 degrees outside?

My car has been sitting in the garage for 7 days.  The temperature in the garage is 46° F.  I turned the car on and the indicated range is 17 miles.  I turned the heater on and the range dropped to 12 miles.

 

The electric only part of the battery is 5.6 kWh when new.  A measurement of how many kWh it takes to charge from 0% to 100% would be helpful.   I have power meters installed in my garage that can give me that data.  If you don't there is a meter called a "Kill A Watt", manufactured by P3, that can be used.  It plugs into a standard 120 volt 15 amp outlet.  The EVSE that came with the car is plugged into it.  It measures volts, amps, watts, volt amps, hertz, power factor, kWh, and hours.  kWh is the one of interest.

 

https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Electricity-Usage-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU/ref=sr_1_5?crid=W79BPYXMHEXT&keywords=p3+killawatt&qid=1581097053&sprefix=P3+%2Caps%2C148&sr=8-5

 

When it goes below freezing I get about 10 miles from my battery.

It is difficult in cold weather to analyze a battery.  It's a lot easier when the temperature has been 75° F for several days so the battery is fully up to temperature.

 

[JATR4]

2 hours ago, Cheri said:

Understood about the battery range with heat on, etc.  But forget driving.- Vehicle charged all night, charge has completed.  I unplug the charge cord and without driving anywhere, it has only charged to 9, 10, 11 sometimes 12 miles.  It has never once charged to over 13 miles.  Is that 'normal'?  That's no where close to a 20 mile charge.  Is that because it's not 70 degrees outside?

The range is based on previous driving.  For example, if you drive at 70 mph with the AC on the battery charge will show a number based on that driving--not a very high number.  If you drive at 45 mph a few times the battery range number will most likely increase.  The battery charge number is based on previous driving and includes heating and cooling and heated seats.  The number doesn't mean much since your actual range will depend on your actual driving.  The range number is informational only and is an indication of what to expect if you drive like like you did on previous trips.

 

The battery on my 2013 has deteriorated and the charge range is usually between 14-17.  If I turn on either the AC or the heater, that number decreases immediately.

Edited February 7, 2020 at 06:17 PM by JATR4

[Cheri]

I'm going to try turning EVERYTHING off in the car and I will repost what the battery reads after an overnight charge.  I looked at that kill-a-watt p3, but I have my car plugged into an outside outlet on my house, with the cover and all, the p3 wont physically fit on the outlet.  I'm going to look to see if I can find one with a short lead so I can report the KwH.   Another question, the lighted charging ring at the on the car, I noticed that the 4th quadrant does not light up.  Only 3 of the 4 lights light up then the charge stops.  Is that not coming on because the battery wont fully charge under 70 F or does that mean the light went out?   Thanks for all the feedback, very helpful!

[Cheri]

10 minutes ago, JATR4 said:

The range is based on previous driving.  For example, if you drive at 70 mph with the AC on the battery charge will show a number based on that driving--not a very high number.  If you drive at 45 mph a few times the battery range number will most likely increase.  The battery charge number is based on previous driving and includes heating and cooling and heated seats.  The number doesn't mean much since your actual range will depend on your actual driving.  The range number is informational only and is an indication of what to expect if you drive like like you did on previous trips.

 

The battery on my 2013 has deteriorated and the charge range is usually between 14-17.  If I turn on either the AC or the heater, that number decreases immediately.

I'm going to have to do some trips where I drive under the most ideal conditions on EV and see if that makes any difference.  I guess I expected the car to have an EV range closer to the listed range when its basically like new.  It has 27K on it.  Thanks for the info!

[murphy]

56 minutes ago, Cheri said:

I'm going to try turning EVERYTHING off in the car and I will repost what the battery reads after an overnight charge.  I looked at that kill-a-watt p3, but I have my car plugged into an outside outlet on my house, with the cover and all, the p3 wont physically fit on the outlet.  I'm going to look to see if I can find one with a short lead so I can report the KwH.   Another question, the lighted charging ring at the on the car, I noticed that the 4th quadrant does not light up.  Only 3 of the 4 lights light up then the charge stops.  Is that not coming on because the battery wont fully charge under 70 F or does that mean the light went out?   Thanks for all the feedback, very helpful!

If you watch the ring when charging begins it will sequence through all 4 segments.  I'm betting that one has burned out.  I had my ring replaced under warranty for missing segments and I now have it turned off because it will only burn out again and this time it will be out of warranty.

 

Look at your My Ford Mobile account for how much charge was used for a trip.  Unfortunately, at least on my 2013, for a charge it just says it was charged to 100%.

[Cheri]

1 hour ago, murphy said:

If you watch the ring when charging begins it will sequence through all 4 segments.  I'm betting that one has burned out.  I had my ring replaced under warranty for missing segments and I now have it turned off because it will only burn out again and this time it will be out of warranty.

 

Look at your My Ford Mobile account for how much charge was used for a trip.  Unfortunately, at least on my 2013, for a charge it just says it was charged to 100%.

Yeah, it must be burned out as I've never seen it come on.  When I plug in, the first 3 quadrants each flash but not the fourth.  When I purchased the car in October, I purchased a full bumper 2 bumper Ford factory warranty, so I'm hopeful I can get the ring replaced under warranty.  I was hesitant to buy the warranty, then last night I had several error codes flash on the display, "Hill start assist unavailable, Traction control not avail; service Advance Trac."  Now I'm relieved I got it.  I guess the beast needs to go in for service. 

I'm pretty sure my charge is listed as 100% even though it's only for 10 miles.  The display shows each time I park/start what percentage of charge remains.  If it charges to 10 and I use 5, it says 50% of charge remains. I'm embarrassed to admit that I've never gone online and registered with My Ford Mobile.  The dealer mentioned it but didn't explain any benefits of, so I just never got around to it.  I'm a procrastinator. 

[jj2me]

5 hours ago, Cheri said:

I'm going to have to do some trips where I drive under the most ideal conditions on EV and see if that makes any difference.  I guess I expected the car to have an EV range closer to the listed range when its basically like new.  It has 27K on it.  Thanks for the info!

 

If you do make such a trip, you can make the trip so that it gives you information on your battery's current capacity.  Charge to 100%, reset a Trip Meter so the mileage and kWh readings are zeroed, go on that ideal drive in EV mode at moderate speeds with no heater or A/C, 40-50 mph or less would be great. When the battery drains fully and the car automatically switches to EV-later and the engine comes on, pull over and shut the car off, and look at the left display for kWh and miles driven. Yours will be less than 5.6 kWh.  How much less will help explain what you're experiencing, or whether it's partly that the car is calculating low like JATR4 explained.

 

Note that if you use the Kill-A-Watt method to calculate battery capacity, there's some efficiency loss from the wall to the battery that needs to be accounted for.   Multiply the Kill-A-Watt's reading by .72 (this is what Ford uses for its sticker calculations).  

 

A third way to get battery capacity in kWh is to get an OBDII app and dongle and get the readings directly from some PID that estimates this value.

 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 at 11:53 PM by jj2me

[jsamp]

3 hours ago, jj2me said:

 

If you do make such a trip, you can make the trip so that it gives you information on your battery's current capacity.  Charge to 100%, reset a Trip Meter so the mileage and kWh readings are zeroed, go on that ideal drive in EV mode at moderate speeds with no heater or A/C, 40-50 mph or less would be great. When the battery drains fully and the car automatically switches to EV-later and the engine comes on, pull over and shut the car off, and look at the left display for kWh and miles driven. Yours will be less than 5.6 kWh.  How much less will help explain what you're experiencing, or whether it's partly that the car is calculating low like JATR4 explained.

 

Note that if you use the Kill-A-Watt method to calculate battery capacity, there's some efficiency loss from the wall to the battery that needs to be accounted for.   Multiply the Kill-A-Watt's reading by .72 (this is what Ford uses for its sticker calculations).  

 

A third way to get battery capacity in kWh is to get an OBDII app and dongle and get the readings directly from some PID that estimates this value.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Cheri said:

I'm going to have to do some trips where I drive under the most ideal conditions on EV and see if that makes any difference.  I guess I expected the car to have an EV range closer to the listed range when its basically like new.  It has 27K on it.  Thanks for the info!

 

One clarification on what jj2me said.  The test ends when the car switches to Auto (hybird) mode.  This will not be when the engine fires up... that happens later.  The switch to Auto mode happens within ~15-30 seconds after the charge reported by the car on the center screen is 0%.  The left dash screen will flash showing Auto mode with EV and EV Later grayed out.  That is the point at which you should record the kWh used and compare that to 5.6 from a new battery.  You don't technically have to stop the car as the Trip Meter tells the kWh live all the time.

[JATR4]

21 hours ago, Cheri said:

I'm going to have to do some trips where I drive under the most ideal conditions on EV and see if that makes any difference.  I guess I expected the car to have an EV range closer to the listed range when its basically like new.  It has 27K on it.  Thanks for the info!

The 27K doesn't mean much since my 2013 only has 32K after 6+ years.  And my HV battery has definitely deteriorated.  In later years Ford removed the number from the battery screen because it confuses many people.  Note that when the battery gets to zero charge another battery screen appears.  It slides from right to left and may or may not show a charge.  That battery screen has no number.  You will get a little more EV range before the ICE starts if that battery screen shows a full charge.  That charge won't last long.  Be sure to leave the charging cable connected for an hour or two after the HV battery sends the signal that it is fully charged.  That is when the small 12V battery is charged.

Edited February 8, 2020 at 03:57 PM by JATR4

[jsamp]

13 hours ago, JATR4 said:

In later years Ford removed the number from the battery screen because it confuses many people.  Note that when the battery gets to zero charge another battery screen appears.  It slides from right to left and may or may not show a charge.  That battery screen has no number.  You will get a little more EV range before the ICE starts if that battery screen shows a full charge.  That charge won't last long.  Be sure to leave the charging cable connected for an hour or two after the HV battery sends the signal that it is fully charged.  That is when the small 12V battery is charged.

 

I was aware there was a change, though I have not seen it to know exactly what happens.  That second battery screen is the Hybrid portion of the battery.  If you get to that after depleting the plug-in portion, it will run that down to the middle of that range and then fire the ICE up (assuming no hard acceleration during that time).

[Cheri]

On 2/7/2020 at 7:06 PM, jsamp said:

 

 

One clarification on what jj2me said.  The test ends when the car switches to Auto (hybird) mode.  This will not be when the engine fires up... that happens later.  The switch to Auto mode happens within ~15-30 seconds after the charge reported by the car on the center screen is 0%.  The left dash screen will flash showing Auto mode with EV and EV Later grayed out.  That is the point at which you should record the kWh used and compare that to 5.6 from a new battery.  You don't technically have to stop the car as the Trip Meter tells the kWh live all the time.

Based on all the feedback here, I have performed two tests on the EV battery. Both tests are with all climate control turned off, no headlights and speeds ranging from 25 - 45 mph .

Test #1: AUTO mode (careful not to activate ICE). 45 F,  21.6 MI. 5.1 kWh.  

Test #2: EV now mode, 40 F,  22.6 MI. 5.1 kWh.

Not bad considering it's only 40 to 45 degrees outside. I don't think I could expect much better if it were 70° outside.  I guess there's nothing wrong with my EV system and I've just been draining the battery on climate control.

[murphy]

The 5 kW resistance heater on for 1 hour is the entire capacity of the battery.  It's not that bad since as the cabin warms up the current to the heater drops.

If you have a 240 volt EVSE you can warm the cabin using wall power before you leave (240 volts x 16 amps = 3840 watts). 

It doesn't work at 120 volts because only 1440 watts is available (120 volts x 12 amps).

 

[jj2me]

I've found that using the steering wheel heater makes a surprising difference in comfort when the temps hit below 40°F.  I rarely bother turning on the seat heater.

[jsamp]

17 hours ago, Cheri said:

Based on all the feedback here, I have performed two tests on the EV battery. Both tests are with all climate control turned off, no headlights and speeds ranging from 25 - 45 mph .

Test #1: AUTO mode (careful not to activate ICE). 45 F,  21.6 MI. 5.1 kWh.  

Test #2: EV now mode, 40 F,  22.6 MI. 5.1 kWh.

Not bad considering it's only 40 to 45 degrees outside. I don't think I could expect much better if it were 70° outside.  I guess there's nothing wrong with my EV system and I've just been draining the battery on climate control.

 

5.1kWh on a cold day isn't bad at all.  Your mileage will improve a little on a nice 70+ degree day, but probably only by a couple of miles.

 

16 hours ago, murphy said:

The 5 kW resistance heater on for 1 hour is the entire capacity of the battery.  It's not that bad since as the cabin warms up the current to the heater drops.

If you have a 240 volt EVSE you can warm the cabin using wall power before you leave (240 volts x 16 amps = 3840 watts). 

It doesn't work at 120 volts because only 1440 watts is available (120 volts x 12 amps).

 

 

Pre-heating does work on 120V, however it will steal from the battery to make up what the plug lacks.  I've done it a few times and it will use ~10% of the battery in 15 minutes.

[Paul Creed III]

I have used Go Times on both my 2017 and 2019 Energi’s while plugged in at home on 120 and the HVB always shows as fully charged when I climb in - no apparent use of the HVB to pre-heat, even in Ohio winters. Granted, the pre-heat doesn’t do too much to melt the snow and ice on really cold days but it does help a bit. YMMV

[jsamp]

17 hours ago, Paul Creed III said:

I have used Go Times on both my 2017 and 2019 Energi’s while plugged in at home on 120 and the HVB always shows as fully charged when I climb in - no apparent use of the HVB to pre-heat, even in Ohio winters. Granted, the pre-heat doesn’t do too much to melt the snow and ice on really cold days but it does help a bit. YMMV

 

Good point.  I was talking about using remote start with the heat/defrost on.  That is when it will draw from the battery.  I think you are correct that on "Go Times" it will only use whatever the plug can deliver.  In fact, it will change your charging start time automatically if it thinks it won't have enough time to get to 100% AND then heat the car by your go time.  I've seen that before.   The drawback there, as you noted, is it will only draw 1440W which is about the same as a hair dryer on high setting.

Edited February 14, 2020 at 05:34 AM by jsamp