Is there any value in driving in L

[g-luv]

I just got a 2019 Fusion Energi and previously had a Chevy Volt. In the Volt driving in L was an acceptable method of passively increasing battery regeneration. I always drove in L and preferred being close to one pedal braking along with the paddle on the steering wheel to add more regeneration.

Does driving in L on the Fusion safely add more regeneration and car slowing assistance or does it work more like a traditional ICE and just use the engine to and transmission to slow the vehicle?

[murphy]

It puts regeneration on the go pedal and it can be used to modulate the amount of regeneration.  Max regeneration is with your foot off of the go pedal.  As you press on the go pedal the regeneration decreases until you reach the crossover point where there is no regeneration or acceleration.  It only uses the engine if the HVB is fully charged.  Fuel is not sent to the engine in this mode.  The engine is basically an air pump to provide back pressure.  The only downside is that the brake lights do not come on during regenerative braking on the go pedal.  I don't consider it a big deal because I drove a stick shift car for many years and the brake lights don't come on when you down shift to slow down.

 

I have driven exclusively in L since late 2014.  I almost never use the engine since I don't use the Energi as a long distance car.

[ptjones]

If you have extra energy regen is a way of storing it, but regen is only at best 80% efficient and it would seem to me that being in L all the time maybe over using regen when you don't need it. I very rarely use it and like to coast when I can. I like to be involved in my driving experience. :) I imagine most don't want to put that must effort in to it.

 

Paul 

[murphy]

If you have extra energy regen is a way of storing it, but regen is only at best 80% efficient and it would seem to me that being in L all the time maybe over using regen when you don't need it. I very rarely use it and like to coast when I can. I like to be involved in my driving experience. :) I imagine most don't want to put that must effort in to it.

 

Paul 

As I said I don't use the engine and I want every bit of energy back that I can get.  It also makes the Energi drive the same as my other car which is a Tesla.

[ptjones]

As I said I don't use the engine and I want every bit of energy back that I can get.  It also makes the Energi drive the same as my other car which is a Tesla.

What did you get?

 

Paul

[murphy]

What did you get?

 

Paul

2016 model S90D. 

I previously had a 2014 model S85. 

I gave up on Ford taking electrification seriously.  The latest Energi is what, 25 miles electric.   The Honda Clarity is 47 and a friend got well over 50 from his.

 

The Energi is now used for short runs to Lowe's, supermarket, dentist, doctor etc.

[ptjones]

Do you make any long trips, I would think the FFE would be more practical.  I'm looking at the New Escape Plugin, little bigger than CMAX and 30 mile range and I figure should be able to get upto 40 miles anyways. :)

 

Paul

[murphy]

Do you make any long trips, I would think the FFE would be more practical.  I'm looking at the New Escape Plugin, little bigger than CMAX and 30 mile range and I figure should be able to get upto 40 miles anyways. :)

 

Paul

My brother is 265 miles away.  I've made the trip twice in the FFE and about 25 times in a Tesla.  There are now 8 supercharger locations on the route and a few more under construction.  I only stop once about half way.  My car has lifetime free supercharging although I actually paid up front in the price of the car.  The rated range of my car is 288 miles but I would never go that far just like I wouldn't drive a gas car until the tank was empty.

[ptjones]

I typically get 650-700 miles on a tank on the FWY and only takes 15 min. to full up, grab something to eat and make pit stop.  EV on long trips you need to have plan where to stop to get charged and have the time to do it.  Your 265 mile trip works good for you if you can charge up at your brothers. :)   I thought I heard Tesla was going to start charging for charging. :)  FORD is going to start taking reservations for the Mustang MachE Nov. 17.

 

Paul

[murphy]

I typically get 650-700 miles on a tank on the FWY and only takes 15 min. to full up, grab something to eat and make pit stop.  EV on long trips you need to have plan where to stop to get charged and have the time to do it.  Your 265 mile trip works good for you if you can charge up at your brothers. :)   I thought I heard Tesla was going to start charging for charging. :)  FORD is going to start taking reservations for the Mustang MachE Nov. 17.

 

Paul

There is a supercharger 4 miles from my brother's house.  There is another one under construction 16 miles north of his house.  Charging is a not an issue.  Model 3 owners have to pay for charging.  Early model S and X owners do not have to pay.

[ptjones]

Most of my traveling is about 500 miles or more one way, 1750 miles to AZ.

 

Paul

[rbort]

Driving in L is not the best idea, sometimes its too much regen.  If you regen more than necessary and have to step on the accelerator again to make it to that red light well then you lost that battle and used more energy.  Its always best to coast and not use the accelerator at all.  You can regen with D or L or use the brake to vary regen manually.  L has its place but its place is not all the time.  You have many tools available to you with this car, even hill decent and N when necessary, you have to use the right setting for the moment.

 

L is handy when you see a hill coming up or when you want to slow down on the highway because someone got in front of you, or you want to slow down to take the exit.  Driving in L all the time I would expect that you would end up being less efficient, and overheating the HVB more due to heavier regen all the time.  You start learning to keep moving to the red light and regen hard at the end with L to slow down to a stop where is you start slowly decelerating from a distance with light regen that would be better for the HVB.  That also in turn gives the light a chance to turn green so you can skip stopping all together, a win win situation.  Any speed you save even 5mph is better then none (coming to a full stop).  Here is a simple example to teach you what I mean:

 

You're driving and 2000 feet ahead a light turns yellow...

 

a) you keep stepping on the gas in L to keep moving towards the light (wasting battery) and when you get close you remove your foot and regen hard to slow down where finally you press the brake below 5 mph and come to a full stop waiting at the light.  Hard regen = battery temp rise.

 

b) you immediately stop pressing the accelerator (gas for short above) and coast in D with light regen slowly losing speed towards the light.  This takes longer to arrive at the light and there is nowhere to go anyways (red light ahead).  Some people might get anxious behind you but stay calm if they want they can pass and race to the light to slam on the brake (stupid).  Coasting in D is low regen better for the battery and you stopped using any battery since you stopped pressing on the gas 2000 feet ago.  This way when you arrive at the light you use the brake to regen as necessary (will be lower since you have less speed) and make the full stop if necessary.  In option b you'll have more battery left than in option a and you'll have a cooler battery also.  Regen is not 100% back of energy so you always lose at least 10% if you accelerate and then regen back.     Finally in option b taking longer to get to the light means there is a chance it will turn green and many times it does when you still have 20mph speed then you just step on the accelerator and keep going, sometimes passing the stupid person who raced to the light around you because they were stopped but have no worry they will floor it just to get ahead of you as quickly as possible since that's the only way they will feel good (that they passed you) :)

 

It takes time to learn how to drive this car, but its alot of fun to do it!!  I love all the options, keeps you busy making the best decisions for the road ahead.

 

-=>Raja. 

Edited November 17, 2019 at 05:23 PM by rbort

[ptjones]

We did testing in the CMAX Hybrid Forum and it looks like the best you can get back from ICE from ICE output of 100% is 80-70% back and saw some FORD info that somewhere said 80% regen back and electric motor is 90-95% efficient. Even at 70% that is a lot better than 0% for non Hybrid(ICE) vehicles.

 

My How to get great gas mileage videos thread explains this to optimize for the best MPG's.

 

Paul

[jsamp]

You're driving and 2000 feet ahead a light turns yellow...

 

a) you keep stepping on the gas in L to keep moving towards the light (wasting battery) and when you get close you remove your foot and regen hard to slow down where finally you press the brake below 5 mph and come to a full stop waiting at the light.  Hard regen = battery temp rise.

 

b) you immediately stop pressing the accelerator (gas for short above) and coast in D with light regen slowly losing speed towards the light.  This takes longer to arrive at the light and there is nowhere to go anyways (red light ahead).  Some people might get anxious behind you but stay calm if they want they can pass and race to the light to slam on the brake (stupid).  Coasting in D is low regen better for the battery and you stopped using any battery since you stopped pressing on the gas 2000 feet ago.  This way when you arrive at the light you use the brake to regen as necessary (will be lower since you have less speed) and make the full stop if necessary.  In option b you'll have more battery left than in option a and you'll have a cooler battery also.  Regen is not 100% back of energy so you always lose at least 10% if you accelerate and then regen back.     Finally in option b taking longer to get to the light means there is a chance it will turn green and many times it does when you still have 20mph speed then you just step on the accelerator and keep going, sometimes passing the stupid person who raced to the light around you because they were stopped but have no worry they will floor it just to get ahead of you as quickly as possible since that's the only way they will feel good (that they passed you) :)

 

It takes time to learn how to drive this car, but its alot of fun to do it!!  I love all the options, keeps you busy making the best decisions for the road ahead.

 

-=>Raja. 

 

In CA if you do option b 3 cars will pass you and get in your lane in front of you.  A few lights in a row and soon you miss the next light because there were more cars in front of you than could get through the light.  Yeah, it's stupid, but you'll get run off the road if you are too slow.  I stay in D and try to moderate the braking so I just come to a stop without losing any regen to friction brakes.

[rbort]

Believe it or not I'm driving here in California the last 2 weeks and I'm driving (not speeding) on the freeway at 65mph and I have not been run over.  You know, everyone says you can't you have to drive 80 or you're going to get killed.  I also see some police on 15 trying to catch people who are speeding.

 

On the side roads I'm doing what I normally do and if people get ahead then they do they are stupid to race to the lights and slam on the brakes.  Doesn't matter to me I'm not in any rush but I know what you mean.  I did drive to Arizona and learned that over there when you put a signal people actually slow down and let you in.  Here in California people are crazy I saw a motorcycle race past me in the second lane (I was in the far right), then cut on a diagonal not even 50 feet infront of the car in front of me and right into the exit.  I don't know how he made it looked like he was past the exit at least well past the solid lines that you're supposed to be inside to take the exit.  Too many people in a rush around here, but it is what it is.  I just keep a watchful eye on my surroundings and if I drive the speed limit on a side road sometimes I get tailgated.  In that case if I feel they are too close I blink the hazard lights for them to send a signal to their stupid brains.  Sorry to complain but yes I've seen alot of crazy stuff like that.

 

-=>Raja.

Edited November 20, 2019 at 05:38 PM by rbort

[jsamp]

Driving in L is not the best idea, sometimes its too much regen.  If you regen more than necessary and have to step on the accelerator again to make it to that red light well then you lost that battle and used more energy.  Its always best to coast and not use the accelerator at all.  You can regen with D or L or use the brake to vary regen manually.  L has its place but its place is not all the time.  You have many tools available to you with this car, even hill decent and N when necessary, you have to use the right setting for the moment.

 

...

 

a) you keep stepping on the gas in L to keep moving towards the light (wasting battery) and when you get close you remove your foot and regen hard to slow down where finally you press the brake below 5 mph and come to a full stop waiting at the light.  Hard regen = battery temp rise.

 

 

I think you're over-thinking this.   The brake can regen harder than 'L' can.  So braking at max regen is worse than slowing down in 'L' because that would create more heat in the battery than L would.  Yes, gradually slowing down, whether in L and moderating the regen, or in D with a gentle brake foot, would be best.  But I don't think braking is any better for the battery and could even be worse.  Since you can feather the accelerator pedal to reduce or even nertralize the regen, L can be a convenient way to slow as necessary without moving your foot to the other pedal.

[Fgolman]

As far a brake pedal foot is concerned:

 

https://jalopnik.com/what-is-left-foot-braking-and-why-you-should-know-how-t-1792139182

 

I've been using my left for my entire life except in manual transmission cars (which we still have one). I've always felt it more natural in an automatic to use left foot. Definetly quicker reaction time.

[SuPaTooX]

Let's keep this simple.

 

I use L on and off while I drive.

In traffic definitely L.

Red light ahead L.

 

My tip with using L. Engage L with slight pressure on the gas, this will minimize the sudden surge of max Regen.

 

 

With all this great advice, has anyone achieved a 100% brake score?

[jj2me]

Where I drive in crowded, hustling NJ, I'll do that only if my rear view mirror tells me it's safe. Otherwise, I want the brake light keeping them away from my expensive-to-repair rear bumper sensors.

[ptjones]

Pretty much impossible to have Life Time Score of 100%, brake once with less than 100% the best you can do is 99%.   I did have 99% for quite awhile until I started doing more City so now I have 97% with 240k miles.

 

Paul

[SuPaTooX]

I used to think 100% was impossible, until I got it the other day. I will need to test it out again but my driving score is closer to 70%. Even when I have some fun my mpg is still in the 40-50 range.

[SuPaTooX]

Where I drive in crowded, hustling NJ, I'll do that only if my rear view mirror tells me it's safe. Otherwise, I want the brake light keeping them away from my expensive-to-repair rear bumper sensors.

Absolutely. I keep a close eye on my rearview and usually flash my brakes if they are to close.

[rbort]

Absolutely, my driving score is very often 99 with 100% brake score.  But you have to drive like a grandma and anticipate everything.  Easier to do around town not on long trips down the highway.

 

-=>Raja.

[rowekmr]

WOW I learned a lot here. I have had 3 plug ins and didn't know about the L function. I am amazed at the skills and techniques you have figured out to maximize efficiency. I am looking to get a 4th one soon and will try the L.

I would pre heat/cool and drive in Chicago cold winter with no heat and windows cracked to prevent fogging while I was dressed like I was in Antarctic and would squeeze efficiency to keep the gas engine from coming on during my 14 mile trip to/from work (would plug in at work). I laugh now that I think of it.

[JATR4]

I have been driving in L for several years on my 2013 Energi.  I see no downside to driving in L.  I also have a 2018 Volvo XC60 T8 (PHEV) and drive it in B (same as L in the Energi).  The Volvo has a turbocharged 4-cylinder engine that makes it very fast.   My Energi battery has degraded and 15 miles EV is only possibile under ideal conditions.  We get about 20 miles EV in PURE on the Volvo  before the hybrid tales over.

 

My overall mpg on the Energi is 140+ and have only used 220+ gallons of fuel in 6 years (31K+ miles).  Mostly short trips near town. 

 

I actually like the simplicity of the Energi but the Volvo is fun to drive even if it is an SUV.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2020 at 06:54 PM by JATR4