4cylinder Posted February 25, 2019 at 05:15 PM Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 at 05:15 PM I live in a rented townhouse so I can't install a Level 2 charger (even if I could, I'd just be giving my landlord a very expensive gift when I move out). The only outlets in my garage are the GFCI type, and ever since I bought the car I've been charging from that outlet. 99% of the time it's never a problem, but when there is extreme cold (e.g. the deep freeze that SE Michigan endured during the last week of January, which saw temps plunge to -25C), the outlet has a tendency to trip - and it'll keep tripping within seconds of me resetting the switch as long as the car remains plugged in. The only solution is to wait for the weather to warm up (fortunately it doesn't need to be TOO warm - at least -15C is good for the most part). During these cold snaps, I literally cannot charge my car indoors anymore. Thus, I'm seeking the help of those with a more advanced understanding of electric circuits. Specifically, what exactly do you think is causing the GFCI to trip, and why does it exclusively happen during extreme cold? These are the possible culprits I've gathered from some Googling:The heating system in my house works overtime (I can hear it whirring loudly) during such weather, and my townhouse's grid can't handle the load of both the heater and an EV charging at the same time, so it sacrifices the garage outlet.The extreme cold causes the car to draw more current from the outlet to keep the battery warm while charging (I am least confident about THIS theory as I believe GFCI doesn't protect against current surges)There is some kind of earth leakage in my townhouse but it doesn't manifest except in extreme cold (if that even makes any sense...). If this is the real issue I could probably get my landlord to fix it, but the inability to reproduce it outside of extreme cold might make it hard to diagnose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsamp Posted February 26, 2019 at 08:44 PM Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 at 08:44 PM I can't see #1 as being the culprit because the GFCI outlet doesn't know what your heater is doing. Unless the heater is causing a voltage drop on the entire house, the GFCI is blind to the heater. #2 shouldn't be it either because the car limits the 120V current at 12A, so it should never go up. My guess would be that for whatever reason the GFCI itself is sensitive to the cold and causes it to trip more readily than normal. Just my guess though. 4cylinder and jdbob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4cylinder Posted February 26, 2019 at 09:07 PM Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 at 09:07 PM (edited) Interesting... I didn't think of the GFCI circuitry itself being sensitive to the cold, but that does sound plausible. The grid in my townhouse isn't of the highest quality - for example the circuit breaker trips within seconds when I have my TV on and a space heater active at the same time in my living room! Meanwhile my electric toothbrush charger always trips the GFCI in my bathroom within 2-3 hours, forcing me to reset it every morning. Is there such a thing as the GFCI circuitry "going bad" over time, or just being "low quality"? My townhouse was built in 2001 if that's relevant. Anyway, this annoyance does make me glad to have a PHEV rather than a full EV (for once) - otherwise I would be in trouble and might have to go out and freeze my behind off to charge at a public Level 2 station lol. Can't wait till I can get my own home and actually install a proper charging station... Edited February 26, 2019 at 09:10 PM by 4cylinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted February 26, 2019 at 09:49 PM Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 at 09:49 PM It is possible that the Ford EVSE sends a small current through the ground connection to verify the ground connection exists. That is what a GFCI is designed to detect.None of my EVSEs are on a GFCI circuit and never will be. My refrigerator is also not on a GFCI circuit. See if the circuit you are using has any fluorescent lights connected to it. The spike coming from the ballast when the light is turned off will trip a GFCI. jj2me, 4cylinder and jsamp 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsamp Posted February 27, 2019 at 01:37 AM Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 01:37 AM Even worse than GFCI is the new Arc Fault breakers that are required for bedroom circuits. They are designed to sense an arc between hot and neutral (not ground). So often a motor like your vacuum or fridge or even hair dryer will trip the thing because it senses the "arc" in the motor. jj2me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4cylinder Posted February 27, 2019 at 11:22 PM Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 11:22 PM It is possible that the Ford EVSE sends a small current through the ground connection to verify the ground connection exists. That is what a GFCI is designed to detect.None of my EVSEs are on a GFCI circuit and never will be. My refrigerator is also not on a GFCI circuit. See if the circuit you are using has any fluorescent lights connected to it. The spike coming from the ballast when the light is turned off will trip a GFCI. My garage has a door opener and a crappy old light bulb as far as I can see. There is just one pair of outlets connected to the same GFCI switch. Also, the tripping has only happened during extreme cold - do you know if that could impact the wiring or grounding somehow? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted February 28, 2019 at 12:41 AM Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 at 12:41 AM My garage has a door opener and a crappy old light bulb as far as I can see. There is just one pair of outlets connected to the same GFCI switch. Also, the tripping has only happened during extreme cold - do you know if that could impact the wiring or grounding somehow? Thanks.In extreme cold, opening a door into the garage would allow warm air in which would have a much higher humidity. If it hits a cold area condensation can form. Are the cover plates for the outlets made of metal? If they are change them to plastic to see if that solves the problem. Condensation is not normally a conductor of electricity but it might be allowing a very small current to flow from the hot prong to the ground prong of the outlet. That is what the GFCI is looking for. Another test, assuming there is a door from the house directly into the garage, would be to not use that door to get into the garage but instead use the main garage door to get into the garage to see if that solves the problem. Opening the main garage door, or a man door that comes in from outside would let cold dry air into the garage instead of warm humid air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgolman Posted February 28, 2019 at 01:59 AM Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 at 01:59 AM Have my FFE on a GFI outlet and only once or twice had it ever popped. No particular rhyme or reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timewellspent Posted February 28, 2019 at 07:27 PM Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 at 07:27 PM Have my FFE on a GFI outlet and only once or twice had it ever popped. No particular rhyme or reason. Same for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgolman Posted March 1, 2019 at 12:36 AM Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 at 12:36 AM I think the mechanical and electrical components sensitivity in them vary widely, even in same brand. I have a couple in a bathroom that were all installed at the same time and one pops with just a minimal plug in of a USB charger. The others don't. 4cylinder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4cylinder Posted March 1, 2019 at 05:12 PM Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 at 05:12 PM In extreme cold, opening a door into the garage would allow warm air in which would have a much higher humidity. If it hits a cold area condensation can form. Are the cover plates for the outlets made of metal? If they are change them to plastic to see if that solves the problem. Condensation is not normally a conductor of electricity but it might be allowing a very small current to flow from the hot prong to the ground prong of the outlet. That is what the GFCI is looking for. Another test, assuming there is a door from the house directly into the garage, would be to not use that door to get into the garage but instead use the main garage door to get into the garage to see if that solves the problem. Opening the main garage door, or a man door that comes in from outside would let cold dry air into the garage instead of warm humid air. Makes sense! Unfortunately (or rather, thankfully!) the polar vortex is long over and won't be back for quite some time (hopefully) so I can't run a test now, but I've saved this info in my notes for the next time the cold blast hits my area. My outlets are plastic so that can be ruled out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4cylinder Posted March 1, 2019 at 05:15 PM Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 at 05:15 PM I think the mechanical and electrical components sensitivity in them vary widely, even in same brand. I have a couple in a bathroom that were all installed at the same time and one pops with just a minimal plug in of a USB charger. The others don't. In my two-bathroom townhouse, there is one GFCI switch in one bathroom that also controls the outlet in the other bathroom, so if there's a trip in one bathroom, both bathrooms' outlets stop working and I have to reset. My electric toothbrush charger trips it every day within 2-3 hours of resetting. A space heater will trip it within 1 minute. Looks like mine are just super sensitive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzicman61 Posted March 1, 2019 at 05:26 PM Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 at 05:26 PM If your toothbrush charger is tripping your GFCI I'd say that outlet is going bad. Seems like I read something a while back that each time a GFCI trips it gets weaker. I'd either replace it or have an electrician check it out. 4cylinder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PackN1 Posted June 24, 2019 at 01:27 PM Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 at 01:27 PM I have GFCI in the garage with the 120v charger... no issues unless I remote start the car... if I remote start in winter or summer while charger plugged in it trips gfci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted June 24, 2019 at 03:04 PM Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 at 03:04 PM GFCIs trip on an imbalance in current between the hot terminal and the neutral terminal. Some EVSEs verify the ground connection is present by sending a small current through the ground terminal. That current could trip a GFCI because it isn't going through the neutral. If the input to the EVSE is inductive, the kick back while the magnetic field is building or decaying can also trip a GFCI. I only have GFCIs in the bathrooms, kitchen, and laundry room. I had to rewire my kitchen to get the refrigerator off of a GFCI. I don't need a refrigerator full of spoiled food because a GFCI tripped when I wasn't home to detect it. The only GFCi in my garage is a plug in unit that I use when using AC powered tools in the yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PackN1 Posted June 24, 2019 at 10:14 PM Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 at 10:14 PM Law here all kitchen, bath, basement, garage, outdoor have to be gfci Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted June 24, 2019 at 11:23 PM Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 at 11:23 PM Law here all kitchen, bath, basement, garage, outdoor have to be gfciMy house was built in 1957, GFCI didn't exist back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russael Posted June 25, 2019 at 02:57 AM Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 at 02:57 AM I originally installed a 240v GFCI circuit breaker that goes to my air compressor and EVSE. No problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PackN1 Posted June 26, 2019 at 03:16 PM Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 at 03:16 PM Curious then if you precondition the car (without gfci problem while plugged in) does the charger kick in right away to replenish the loss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted June 26, 2019 at 03:25 PM Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 at 03:25 PM Curious then if you precondition the car (without gfci problem while plugged in) does the charger kick in right away to replenish the loss?Preconditioning (GO Times) with a 240 volt EVSE is done using wall power. Preconditioning with the 120 volt EVSE is also done using wall power which makes it almost worthless since only 1440 watts (120 volts times 12 amps) is available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russael Posted June 26, 2019 at 11:24 PM Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 at 11:24 PM Curious then if you precondition the car (without gfci problem while plugged in) does the charger kick in right away to replenish the loss? Preconditioning is as Murphy says. Remote start will use the maximum power of the particular accessory that is running until your set temp is reached. A/C draws about 3000 - 3500 watts, the heater 5000 or more. A 240v EVSE can keep up with the air conditioner, but cannot with the heater... it'll use both wall and battery. If it's super cold, like around 10 F, there is a significant chance the ICE will come on even if it is plugged in. I've also seen my EVSE automatically kick on at various times to top off the 12v battery. PackN1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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