heeldrag Posted November 28, 2018 at 01:21 AM Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 at 01:21 AM Hi all, I have been considering buying an FFE for the past few days and started doing some research (thank you so much for the vast amount of info here). I started by perusing the used selection on sites like cars and carvana (carvana has about 70) and have found prices between $15k-$20k depending on year/mileage. I was going to pull the trigger this past weekend but i started reading about battery degradation on here and got spooked. It seems to me like it would be a much better deal to buy an older model brand new (I found a couple 2017s for around $23k) and utilize the $4000 tax credit. Would it still work for older year models? Thanks in advance for your insight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsamp Posted November 28, 2018 at 05:37 PM Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 at 05:37 PM Yes, the tax credit works as long as it is a "new" car (1st registered owner). Doesn't matter what year the car is. So this is a good option for you. If you find an older one you like, and the seller will let you, do an extended test drive where you start with a 100% charge, reset a trip odometer, and drive in EV until it switches to hybrid mode (left screen will tell you - it is still driving in EV, but the mode has changed). The resulting kWh used on the trip odometer tells you the battery's health: 5.0-5.6 kWh - really good4.5-5.0 kWh - fair4.0-4.5 kWh - weak3.5-4.0 kWh - poorbelow 3.5kWh - really bad. Several things can affect the results, including temperature that day. These numbers are best measured at 68°F, and lower temps will result in lower numbers, but that is still okay. Of course, the number of miles on the car can have a large affect as well, so an older car is less likely to have >5.0, but it is not impossible. A newer car with less than 5.0 has been abused. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickEnergi Posted November 28, 2018 at 06:52 PM Report Share Posted November 28, 2018 at 06:52 PM Just to throw it out there... A 2019, in SE Michigan, can be had for $35,490 less a $9,757 rebate (leasing) or less a $2,000 rebate and $4,600 tax credit (purchase). Not $20k though. A 2018, if you can find it, could be had for $32,295 less an $11,507 rebate (leasing) or less a $2,500 rebate and $4,000 tax credit (purchase). That leasing price is real close to your $20k for a brand new 2018, if you can find one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj2me Posted November 29, 2018 at 07:26 AM Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 at 07:26 AM Sync 3 (the better version of Sync) started on 2017s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickEnergi Posted November 29, 2018 at 12:25 PM Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 at 12:25 PM Yes, the tax credit works as long as it is a "new" car (1st registered owner). Doesn't matter what year the car is. So this is a good option for you. If you find an older one you like, and the seller will let you, do an extended test drive where you start with a 100% charge, reset a trip odometer, and drive in EV until it switches to hybrid mode (left screen will tell you - it is still driving in EV, but the mode has changed). The resulting kWh used on the trip odometer tells you the battery's health: 5.0-5.6 kWh - really good4.5-5.0 kWh - fair4.0-4.5 kWh - weak3.5-4.0 kWh - poorbelow 3.5kWh - really bad. Several things can affect the results, including temperature that day. These numbers are best measured at 68°F, and lower temps will result in lower numbers, but that is still okay. Of course, the number of miles on the car can have a large affect as well, so an older car is less likely to have >5.0, but it is not impossible. A newer car with less than 5.0 has been abused. Good luck! I've looked back over our Trip & Charge logs (I save them to PDF weekly), and we have never exceeded 5.1kWh since acquiring the vehicle in late September (brand new 2018). Disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsamp Posted November 29, 2018 at 06:22 PM Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 at 06:22 PM I've looked back over our Trip & Charge logs (I save them to PDF weekly), and we have never exceeded 5.1kWh since acquiring the vehicle in late September (brand new 2018). Disappointing. That's interesting and disappointing. I don't have an explanation for why that would be. Did you specifically do a trip where you only drove from full to the switch to hybrid mode? That is the test I'm referring to where you get ~5.6kWh. A full charge from the middle of hybrid mode to 100% would be more (~6.5kWh). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4cylinder Posted December 1, 2018 at 01:30 AM Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 at 01:30 AM I bought a 13 month old car, that is now 25 months old, and it still shows 5.4 kWh used on a full charge (same as the day I bought it). That is indeed weird... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heeldrag Posted December 1, 2018 at 01:47 AM Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 at 01:47 AM Thank you to everyone for the replies! Just to throw it out there... A 2019, in SE Michigan, can be had for $35,490 less a $9,757 rebate (leasing) or less a $2,000 rebate and $4,600 tax credit (purchase). Not $20k though. A 2018, if you can find it, could be had for $32,295 less an $11,507 rebate (leasing) or less a $2,500 rebate and $4,000 tax credit (purchase). That leasing price is real close to your $20k for a brand new 2018, if you can find one. Wow, this is great information. I'm actually checking out a few brand new 2017 SE models tomorrow and I will keep this in mind when negotiating the price. I will definitely inquire about any leftover 2018 models they might have as well. I'll update with the results tomrrow. Hopefully I'll be an energi owner LOL. Also, based on jsamp's information about testing, it's pretty much a crapshoot to buy one of these of carvana since you don't know how previous driver treated the battery. Crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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