L1 charging amperage requirements

[Earthdog]

Wow, I'm not smart enough to figure all of that out. I'll just wait for your posts.

Murphy,

 

Can you help me with a few questions? I am going to go to Lowes and buy all the parts and the electrician said he will install the breaker and outlet for $75.00 in labor.

 

So I want a switch like you did to stop the draw so my thought was the following items:

 

GE Level 2 Wall mount

1 dual gain box

1 Square D 30amp breaker

1 50 amp duplex outlet

1- Plate Cover

 

Am I missing anything or would you get anything different?

 

TIA,

Jeff

[murphy]

Murphy,

 

Can you help me with a few questions? I am going to go to Lowes and buy all the parts and the electrician said he will install the breaker and outlet for $75.00 in labor.

 

So I want a switch like you did to stop the draw so my thought was the following items:

 

GE Level 2 Wall mount

1 dual gain box

1 Square D 30amp breaker

1 50 amp duplex outlet

1- Plate Cover

 

Am I missing anything or would you get anything different?

 

TIA,

Jeff

 

According to the Lowe's web site the GE unit has a built-in button for zero energy usage so you don't need a separate switch.

The GE is listed as 7.2 KW instead of the normal 7.6 KW.

That gets it down to 30 amps instead of the 31.7 required for a 7.6 KW unit.

The question is what plug is installed on the GE unit.  My 3.8 KW came with a 6-20P plug installed.

I think the next larger size is a 6-50P plug.

If the GE unit has a 6-50P plug then you need a 6-50R outlet and a cover plate to match.

Is the electrician supplying the wire?  I doubt it unless that was $75 plus materials.

For a 30 amp circuit you need 10 gauge wire with two conductors and a ground. 

The white wire must be wrapped with red tape at both ends to indicate that it is not a neutral.  Hopefully the electrician knows this.

240 volt circuits do not use a neutral normally.

Is there a spare 30 amp dual breaker in your power panel or do you need to purchase one for the panel?

Is there space for an additional dual breaker in your panel?

 

A 30 amp device on a 30 amp breaker would make me nervous.

I would go to at least a 40 amp breaker which requires 8 gauge wire.

Breakers are sized to protect the wire.

[Earthdog]

According to the Lowe's web site the GE unit has a built-in button for zero energy usage so you don't need a separate switch.

The GE is listed as 7.2 KW instead of the normal 7.6 KW.

That gets it down to 30 amps instead of the 31.7 required for a 7.6 KW unit.

The question is what plug is installed on the GE unit.  My 3.8 KW came with a 6-20P plug installed.

I think the next larger size is a 6-50P plug.

If the GE unit has a 6-50P plug then you need a 6-50R outlet and a cover plate to match.

Is the electrician supplying the wire?  I doubt it unless that was $75 plus materials.

For a 30 amp circuit you need 10 gauge wire with two conductors and a ground. 

The white wire must be wrapped with red tape at both ends to indicate that it is not a neutral.  Hopefully the electrician knows this.

240 volt circuits do not use a neutral normally.

Is there a spare 30 amp dual breaker in your power panel or do you need to purchase one for the panel?

Is there space for an additional dual breaker in your panel?

 

A 30 amp device on a 30 amp breaker would make me nervous.

I would go to at least a 40 amp breaker which requires 8 gauge wire.

Breakers are sized to protect the wire.

Murphy,

 

Thank you so very much.

 

Ok I will go for the 40amp breaker then. They are providing the wire (all of 2 feet) and the rigid conduit. We are replacing an 80Amp breaker for an old warehouse furnace thats now gas.

 

Sorry to drive you nuts with questions. So since the GE is 7.2kw not 7.6kw is it not the right purchase for the future? Should I buy something else the $899.99 was a fair deal and they were going to price match me to $849.00?

 

Thanks again for you time and expertise. 

[murphy]

It's hard to say. 

The difference between 7.2 and 7.6 would only matter at the beginning of the charge cycle.

 

I don't have my car yet so I don't know what the charge profile looks like. 

 

Based on other battery charging systems they start off at a high level but quickly start reducing the charge level.  It can't stay at full current for the whole charge especially with Li-Ion batteries.  It has to sort of sneak up on the full charge condition because it is dangerous to overcharge a Li-Ion battery.  That is the reason all Li-Ion batteries have built-in charge controllers to prevent overcharging.

[howardbc]

Wow, my head is spinning. I haven't picked up my Fusion Energi yet but am getting a little nervous about the charging process. I will be going with just the 110/120v wall outlet to begin with since I am retired and don't drive every day.

 

I have an electrician (Mr. Electric, who installs garage chargers for Ford) coming out next week to look at my setup. He won't charge me anything just to come out and look, so I figure that can't be bad. I think I will wait to charge the car until Mr. Electric (Arizona electrician) does an inspection. That will be 4 days after I pick up the car and I'm not planning on any long trips before the electrician comes out. 

 

Just a little nervous about unintentionally over-loading the circuit. Am I being a ninny?

 

Bobbie

 

[Scooter80]

Assuming your electric panel is safe, you will not have any issues charging. If you overload the circuit, your fuse will blow or your breaker will trip. That's what they're meant for. And, should they do so, you will know you need a new, higher capacity feed to charge your car. Now as far as safety in the long run, you will want to determine how many outlets are othe circuit you plan to use to charge with the 110-120v charger. The manual recommends a dedicated outlet, but if you're only using the one outlet at a time, then multiple outlets on the circuit is fine. Not ideal, but still safe.

 

Myself, until I get my GE Wattstation chargepoint up, I have a garage outlet right below the panel in my garage. It is the only outlet on the circuit, but I use it for power tools and such when I'm not charging. It is also used to power the cable tv booster amp 24/7. This is very little power draw, but nonetheless still shows a dedicated circuit and outlet for the 110-120v charger is a bit overkill IMHO.

 

 

 

(Edited to restore formatting. Grrrr!! Why won't it keep it when it is posted?!!)

Edited April 1, 2013 at 11:26 PM by Scooter80

[pluggedin]

Wow, my head is spinning. I haven't picked up my Fusion Energi yet but am getting a little nervous about the charging process. I will be going with just the 110/120v wall outlet to begin with since I am retired and don't drive every day.

 

I have an electrician (Mr. Electric, who installs garage chargers for Ford) coming out next week to look at my setup. He won't charge me anything just to come out and look, so I figure that can't be bad. I think I will wait to charge the car until Mr. Electric (Arizona electrician) does an inspection. That will be 4 days after I pick up the car and I'm not planning on any long trips before the electrician comes out. 

 

Just a little nervous about unintentionally over-loading the circuit. Am I being a ninny?

 

Bobbie

Yeah Bobbie, I think so. First, the breaker in your electrical box will trip if you overload the circuit and, second the car will not accept the charge and show a fault has occurred. Double protection.

 

However, there are others far more qualified to answer this then I. Maybe they will wade in.

[47Minutes]

I am planning to put my house on the market in a couple months so I'm not interested in spending the $ on install for a 240v charger right now.  In my garage I have two existing outlets.  One is on the ceiling where the GDO is plugged in.  I believe this one to be on the same circuit as the family room based on the label.  This one would be pretty usable if not for being on the ceiling as I need to take the included charger with me to work to plug in.  Otherwise, the "family room" is rarely used during the hours in which I charge so it is effectively dedicated.

 

The 2nd is a GFI plug on the back wall and is linked to two other GFI plugs in the house.  A kitchen one where the coffee pot is and the guest bathroom that only gets used for a night light.  Where I had my concerns about using this one is I have a spare fridge in the garage that is plugged into this outlet.  Fortunately, all of my breakers are at least 20 amp.  I looked up the fridge and found that at peak load it pulls 6 amp.  So with the 12 amp from the charger I figured I'm ok.  I've been charging it there for a week with no issues.  Now come summer in TX the fridge may be pulling closer to that 6 amps and things may change, but I hope to be out of the house by the time the temps really make that box work harder.

 

It isn't ideal as it is not dedicated, but I'm not putting any money into this house that I don't have to get it sold.  I'm pretty comfortable with the GFI outlet being able to trip on overload and also the 20 amp breaker.  Alternatively I would have to look at climbing a ladder every night and morning to hook up unplug the charger to take it with me for work charging. 

[rspray]

Anyone have any reason why the following L2 charger (for $595!) wouldn't work for the Energi?

 

http://www.clippercreek.com/products.html

[murphy]

 

I'm pretty comfortable with the GFI outlet being able to trip on overload and also the 20 amp breaker. 

GFI outlets don't trip on overload.

They trip when the currents in the hot wire and the neutral wire are not exactly equal.

That would indicate that current is going somewhere it isn't supposed to, like through someone's body.

[murphy]

Anyone have any reason why the following L2 charger (for $595!) wouldn't work for the Energi?

 

http://www.clippercreek.com/products.html

Give us a hint.  There are 6 chargers on that page and none of them have prices.

[Mr. Fusion]

Anyone have any reason why the following L2 charger (for $595!) wouldn't work for the Energi?

 

http://www.clippercreek.com/products.html

This thread talked about it. It's the LCS-25. Sounds like it should be fine on the Energi's

 

http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/1034-march-madness-sale-on-clipper-creek-240v-charger-595/

 

I ordered it (Shipped today), so I hope it's all good!

[rspray]

Yes, the LCS-25 is the model I was referring to.

[Earthdog]

This thread talked about it. It's the LCS-25. Sounds like it should be fine on the Energi's

 

http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/1034-march-madness-sale-on-clipper-creek-240v-charger-595/

 

I ordered it (Shipped today), so I hope it's all good!

 

These guys have a local office for me, they were kind enough to give me a loaner to test and it being installed Friday so I will let you know.

[rprobst]

This looks like a great charger. Small size and a good price. Mr Fusion and Earthdog, I'm very interested in your opinions after you've tried it.

[Mr. Fusion]

This looks like a great charger. Small size and a good price. Mr Fusion and Earthdog, I'm very interested in your opinions after you've tried it.

 

Will do. Although I was just told my Energi ETA got pushed back to 4/12, which is the day before a 12 day vacation, so it'll probably sit at the dealer for 2 weeks.

[pluggedin]

Will do. Although I was just told my Energi ETA got pushed back to 4/12, which is the day before a 12 day vacation, so it'll probably sit at the dealer for 2 weeks.

Well, I hate to hear that. But, assuming you are not driving on your vacation, the car will sit anyway.

[Mr. Fusion]

Well, I hate to hear that. But, assuming you are not driving on your vacation, the car will sit anyway.

It was going to sit regardless. It's our tradition to drive the Mustang on this trip. :-)