L1 charging amperage requirements

[bobk]

meaning 120V charging.

 

Many garages will only have 15A or 20A circuits for outlets, and those circuits may be shared with garage door openers etc.

 

Does anyone know what the current draw will be? Ford hopefully had the good sense to think about typical home garage and wiring scenarios.

 

Without knowing more about the battery profile I don't believe the amperage requirements can be worked out from just the battery capacity and the charge time.

 

[shaggy314]

I'm getting a 240/20 put in (run from outside fuse box). The garage has a 120/15 in it, but it is shared with the on demand water heater and a now unused plug in the laundry room.

 

My electrician is coming by 2/16 to give me a quote and talk over wall location.

Edited February 16, 2013 at 05:11 AM by shaggy314

[bobk]

Thanks for the reply. I have a dedicated 120V circult that has nothing else on it, and is connected to a 15A breaker. My concern is whether and how much Ford's 120V charger runs above 15A (= 1.8 kW). I really don't want to pull anything new if not absolutely necessary.

 

[shaggy314]

Honestly I'd shy away from Ford's. They are really charging (HA, pun!) a premium for the blue oval.

 

I'd suggest looking at Amazon.com. It's where I'm getting my Leviton (same manufacturer as Ford's) with it's optional mounting kit. Iirc, you'll want a 20 amp line as the charger runs 16 amps.

 

Mine:

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-EVB22-3PM-Evr-Green-Charging-Station/dp/B004G6ZSZG/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=1TILIC6IRBPZO&coliid=I2POUSNSGZO2JZ

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-EVK02-M-Evr-Green-Installation-Charging/dp/B004G6YGBI/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_y

 

Edited February 7, 2013 at 06:51 AM by shaggy314

[pluggedin]

Thanks for the reply. I have a dedicated 120V circult that has nothing else on it, and is connected to a 15A breaker. My concern is whether and how much Ford's 120V charger runs above 15A (= 1.8 kW). I really don't want to pull anything new if not absolutely necessary.

Here is link to a charger that should be very close to what you get from Ford. Theirs just has a Ford cover on it: http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=EVC11-300&section=37739&minisite=10251.

 

The only way to get the specs for the Ford/Leviton charger, that I know of, is to call certified dealer's parts department or Best Buy's Geek Squad to see if they know the specs for the 120v model. I haven't got there yet.

[bobk]

Thanks - that Leviton charger would address my amperage concerns.

 

I understand that there needs to be communications circuitry in it that talks to the car and monitors charge levels etc, and some breakers, but $600? Wow.

 

Forgive my ignorance - do you not get a Ford charger, either something like the above, or something cheaper, with the car?

 

Thanks

[pluggedin]

It is my understanding that the circuitry for monitoring the charge levels is in the car. I have read, in this forum, that people are buying higher capacity chargers, in case cars are upgraded in the future, and that the car will know what is plugged into it. I hope that makes sense, since you can fit what I know about electricity in a thimble.

 

A 120v charger coming with the car is an unknown to me but my sales rep says one will come with the car. If he is right, it should just be plug and play if you can live with the seven hours it will take to charge the battery.

Edited February 7, 2013 at 02:25 AM by pluggedin

[bobk]

Thanks. If the monitor circuitry is actually in the car, which makes sense, then that makes the $600 price slightly more painful.

 

Seven hours is no problem, as long as it doesn't fry my wiring. That was my concern and the focus of my questions, and while I am not happy about $600 (assuming the included Ford charger doesn't work for me), I may be able to live with that, TBD.

 

If anyone ever finds out the ratings on the Ford-included charger in the future, either from the dealer or when you finally take delivery, I'd love to know them.

 

Thanks

[TX NRG]

From another thread here, "the 2013 Energi only had a 3.3 Kilowatt onboard charger." That would mean a 30A circuit is needed but the owners manual says a 15A-20A dedicated circuit. Page 171:

 

"Note: Your electrical source must meet certain requirements for the high-voltage batteries to charge. The AC outlet must be a three-prong 110-120 volt AC outlet that is properly grounded, 15–20 amps (or greater), and in good condition. The line also must be dedicated, which means that no other appliances should be connected to the same circuit. If a dedicated circuit is not used, the circuit breaker could trip or open. If a dedicated circuit is not available, contact a licensed professional electrician for proper installation.

Make sure that the 120–volt convenience cord is completely unwound before charging. Always plug the cord into the AC outlet before connecting the charging coupler into the vehicle’s charge port receptacle. The 120–volt convenience cord inline control box has three indicator lights that represent the charging status; power, charge and fault."

Edited February 7, 2013 at 05:18 AM by TX NRG

[shaggy314]

Wait, you guys are talking about 2 different products.

 

The 120 volt convenience charger that comes with the car is 120 volt and plugs into normal 3 prong outlets. The Wall mounted $1200-$1400 Ford/Best buy charger (and also the Leviton I suggested) are 240 Volt and require installation (by an electrician) of a dedicated 240 volt line, usually from your exterior wall breaker box.

 

It is the difference between a 7-8 hour charge and a 2-2.5 hour charge time.

 

If you look at the wiring diagram for the plugs on most cars, one of the wire is a communication channel that does determine what power is available so the car can properly charge. There are higher speed chargers with 6.6 Kw, but most PHEV and BEV (2013 Leaf is an exception with a 6.6 Kw rumored) only have the on-board 3.3 Kw chargers so the more expensive 6.6 Kw are 'wasted' but people are guessing that future cars will use it. They are buying it now to not have to buy another charger when they get a new car. Current (pun intended) cars negotiate the charge so you can use a 6.6 Kw now that will step themselves down to 3.3.

 

 

EDIT: changed incorrect reference of amps to the Kw. Also, shop around, I found a Ford dealer willing to sell the 120 volt cable for under $450 mail order.

Edited February 7, 2013 at 03:38 PM by shaggy314

[TX NRG]

Wait, you guys are talking about 2 different products.

 

 

I was addressing bobk's original question, the topic of the thread, about L1 charging amperage with a std garage circuit, and his follow up about whether a charger is included with the car. My response does not apply to L2 chargers (sold separately). BTW, your mention of 6.6 amps and 3.3 amps in regards to higher speed chargers above should be kilowatts instead.

[bobk]

Thanks all. The mention of "15-20" amps in the manual is a bit confusing, however those are the two most common sizes of breakers for household 120V circuits, and 15A the far majority of the two. Very few people will have a 120V circuit with a >20A breaker, so perhaps there's hope. If they included both sizes for purposes of people going to their breaker box and checking the numbers on the switches.

 

If the required current is under 15A, like 12,13, then people should be OK with a 15A breaker. If the actual requirement is 15A or slightly above, then even though breakers have a -/+ tolerance, you will have the occasional breaker trip, like you do sometimes with hair dryers and microwaves. Way above 15 (16,17) really means 20.

 

In any case when someone finally gets their hands on the charger that comes with the car, if they can post the actual specs of it (should be labeled on it), that would be great.

 

Thanks very much for the replies

[pluggedin]

TX NRG, do you have an owners manual for the Energi? If so, is it online?

From another thread here, "the 2013 Energi only had a 3.3 Kilowatt onboard charger." That would mean a 30A circuit is needed but the owners manual says a 15A-20A dedicated circuit. Page 171:  

[murphy]

See the fourth entry under "Fusion Energi Discussion".

[pluggedin]

Thank you, murphy. I missed that one.

[pluggedin]

A 120v charger coming with the car is an unknown to me but my sales rep says one will come with the car. If he is right, it should just be plug and play if you can live with the seven hours it will take to charge the battery.

Page 170 of the Owners Manual says a "charging cord comes with your vehicle". I think it said it is stored behind the drivers seat?? No technical information on the charging cord is provided.

[rprobst]

The charging cord that comes with the car is stored in the trunk. There is a little compartment under the trunk floor on the right side. There's another compartment under the floor on the left side, with the tire repair kit.

[pluggedin]

Right! I know we have pictures showing exactly what you describe. I was just reporting what the manual says and I double checked it just now. But the manual is wrong and the location for the charger was obviously changed after the manual was printed. There may be an updated manual but it does not appear on this web page.

[shaggy314]

The behind driver's seat is a copy/paste by Ford from the CMax manual... as that is where it is at on the CMax Energi...

Edited February 7, 2013 at 08:06 PM by shaggy314

[meyersnole]

Honestly I'd shy away from Ford's. They are really charging (HA, pun!) a premium for the blue oval.

 

I'd suggest looking at Amazon.com. It's where I'm getting my Leviton (same manufacturer as Ford's) with it's optional mounting kit. Iirc, you'll want a 20 amp line as the charger runs 16 amps.

 

Mine:

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-EVB22-3PM-Evr-Green-Charging-Station/dp/B004G6ZSZG/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=1TILIC6IRBPZO&coliid=I2POUSNSGZO2JZ

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-EVK02-M-Evr-Green-Installation-Charging/dp/B004G6YGBI/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_y

 

shaggy314 I have noticed that home depot is pricing their chargers the same as amazon. I might go that route in case there are issues. http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Search?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&keyword=Leviton+Evr&Ns=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=Search+All

 

Have you ordered and installed yours yet?

[shaggy314]

shaggy314 I have noticed that home depot is pricing their chargers the same as amazon. I might go that route in case there are issues. http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Search?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&keyword=Leviton+Evr&Ns=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=Search+All

 

Have you ordered and installed yours yet?

 

Not yet, I have an Amazon.com card with triple points. I have to pay sales taxes either way (Thanks Texas).

 

While I have a home depot near me, it's a sealed new box, so I'm confident I'll be fine. My current plan is to order the install kit and have an electrician install the 240 line/plug. I'll wait to order the $750 charger itself as it just plugs into outlet so I don't need it until I'm closer to having the car. The city rebate doesn't care as long as all the paperwork goes in at once. So I won't order the mount kit until 2/28 and the charger itself when I see from BOF that my car is built.

[murphy]

I recommend that you get the unit and mount it before you hire an electrician.  The power cord is one foot long and stiff as a board.  An extension cord is not permitted.  The only way the electrician will get the box mounted in the right place is to assemble the outlet box and outlet, plug the cord into the outlet, and then determine where and how to attach the outlet box to a stud.  If your garage has plaster board, resist the option to mount the outlet box to the plaster board.  A tremendous amount of force is required to seat the plug fully into the outlet.  A 6-20P plug has much wider blades than is used on 120 volt appliances.

 

 

 

Note that I did not use the grossly overpriced $80 installation kit.  The parts in that kit are not worth more than $10.

The unit is hung from a lag bolt with several screws in the bottom bracket to lock it into place so it can't be lifted off of the lag bolt.

Edited February 10, 2013 at 09:17 PM by murphy

[murphy]

I just modified my charger installation to have an on/off switch.

The charger draws 10 watts while waiting to be put to use.

 

10 watts x 24 hours x 30.4 days / 1000 = 7.3 kwh per month

That's one less phantom load wasting power in my house.

[yojroz]

I just modified my charger installation to have an on/off switch.

The charger draws 10 watts while waiting to be put to use.

 

10 watts x 24 hours x 30.4 days / 1000 = 7.3 kwh per month

That's one less phantom load wasting power in my house.

I read in the manual that you should be sure your charger is plugged in at the wall before you plug it in at the car.  That put the thought in my head to unplug at the wall when I'm not using it.  But a switch certainly is a smoother operation.  Is your switch on a 120 charger or a 240?

[murphy]

I read in the manual that you should be sure your charger is plugged in at the wall before you plug it in at the car.  That put the thought in my head to unplug at the wall when I'm not using it.  But a switch certainly is a smoother operation.  Is your switch on a 120 charger or a 240?

It is a 240 volt charger.  There is a picture of it in post #22.  Pulling the plug is possible but very difficult to do since it takes a lot of force to engage and disengage a 6-20P plug.