Miles on a full charge

[MarkK]

I have about 2000 miles on my 2017 model which is about 5 months old. I am retired, I don't drive to work, so my miles are low.  I am getting about 80mpg, that's a combination of a lot of short trips coupled with a handful of long drives, and I'm very happy with the mileage and with the car. One anomaly: The car was showing 21 miles per charge when the weather was in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Now, with the weather in the 40s and 50s, the car shows 14-16 miles on electric when fully charged. Is this normal? The car is always charged from either my home garage outlet or from a fast charger at the gym nearby. Results are the same for either location.

[murphy]

It's normal for cold weather and using the heater.  Energy used to heat the cabin is not available for propulsion.  Try wearing a warm coat and just using the seat heater.

[fconway]

Welcome to winter! I've gone from 22 miles per charge to 15. It is standard, but disconcerting.

[Riggs]

Use EV later to warm the car then switch back to auto or EV. Don't sacrifice comfort over a bit of gas use.

[Gkinla]

Use EV later to warm the car then switch back to auto or EV. Don't sacrifice comfort over a bit of gas use.

One of the more reasonable statements I’ve read. I just amazes me that one spends $30K or more on a car and then worries about a few cents or dollars on on each trip. I’d rather be driving comfortably, than driving cold or hot. Just my humble opinion.

[jsamp]

One of the more reasonable statements I’ve read. I just amazes me that one spends $30K or more on a car and then worries about a few cents or dollars on on each trip. I’d rather be driving comfortably, than driving cold or hot. Just my humble opinion.

 

<sarcasm alert> But I CAN'T use the heater because it will sacrifice my mileage! <sarcasm off>

 

As with many things there are several ways to view this situation.  One is yours which is purely financial.  To others burning gas for 'comfort' is a waste of a non-renewable resource for selfish reasons and adds to pollution.  Taking financial logic to its full end would mean there is no reason to ever spend more money on a car that reduces pollution, especially if it reduces comfort in any way.

 

Personally I spent money on this car so I would not use as much gas, mostly for pollution reasons but there is a financial benefit that comes with that.  Burning fuel for comfort completely contradicts my purpose, so I try to avoid it. 

 

To each his/her own.

[Fezbearer]

Like the Riggs said, switch to EV later to warm the car up. That said, I'm kind of lucky, since our winters are mild by comparison. I can usually get by with just putting the seat warmers on.

[My14Energi]

I personally love seeing all the "dont run the a/c, dont use the heater, dont go over 45mph". Its like the person at the all you can eat buffet getting a diet coke. What is the point?? Just drive your car, enjoy it. Speed every now and then, enjoy a warm car, enjoy a blasting cold car. Otherwise, horse and buggy is damn good "eco" environmental choice!!

 

I also get a kick out of the arrogance of people who claim its for the environment

Edited November 15, 2017 at 04:23 AM by My14Energi

[jsamp]

Going from my old commute vehicle (Pickup at 18mpg) to my Fusion Energi (currently averaging 66mpg) reduced my fuel consumption by ~72%.  By definition that reduces my pollution by 72% which is good for the environment.  So the claim is valid.  If claiming that is my reason makes me arrogant in your eyes I'm not going to worry about that.

[muzicman61]

I bought mine because I thought it was a sharp looking vehicle with killer features at a great price.  The fact that it is eco friendly didn't factor into my decision.  I just consider that an added bonus.

[My14Energi]

Going from my old commute vehicle (Pickup at 18mpg) to my Fusion Energi (currently averaging 66mpg) reduced my fuel consumption by ~72%. By definition that reduces my pollution by 72% which is good for the environment. So the claim is valid. If claiming that is my reason makes me arrogant in your eyes I'm not going to worry about that.

I traded in my Lincoln MKS which i was averaging 19mpg, i now average 42mpg and have cut my fuel expense more than half. My dad was leasing a Fusion and i thought it was a sharp looking car and was fairly comfortable. I wanted a fully loaded Fusion and it just happened i found an Energi with every option Ford offers and i get great mileage.

[Gkinla]

I personally love seeing all the "dont run the a/c, dont use the heater, dont go over 45mph". Its like the person at the all you can eat buffet getting a diet coke. What is the point?? Just drive your car, enjoy it. Speed every now and then, enjoy a warm car, enjoy a blasting cold car. Otherwise, horse and buggy is damn good "eco" environmental choice!!

 

I also get a kick out of the arrogance of people who claim its for the environment

Edited November 22, 2017 at 07:13 PM by Gkinla

[BronsonBGA]

Like the Riggs said, switch to EV later to warm the car up. That said, I'm kind of lucky, since our winters are mild by comparison. I can usually get by with just putting the seat warmers on.

 Just as you've noted, I've found that if I turn off the cabin heat and use just the sear heater and steering wheel heater, I can keep my EV mileage to 20 - 21. I was really surprised that it was a 5 or 6 mile difference. I went from 15 - 16 miles of range with the heater running just a tad to 21 miles of range with no heater. My comfort doesn't appear to have been impacted. 

 

I do use the "go times" setting to prewarm the car, and it garaged both at home and at work, so I think this will work quite well for me for the winter. I'll let you know how it does on a VERY cold day.

[murphy]

The heater is a 5 kW resistance heater.  If it takes 15 minutes to warm the cabin that's 1.25 kWh that isn't available for propulsion.   Using GO times, at 240 volts, to prewarm the cabin, will greatly reduce the loss due to heater use.

[YoloSwaggins]

When it comes to winter driving, just remember that there is one thing combustion engines are very good at: Producing ass-tons of waste heat. I find the most efficient way to get the car heated up is to run it in EV Later mode until the coolant warms up, then switch over to EV mode once its warm.

 

Getting the coolant from cold all the way up to temperature takes a lot of juice and time when using the battery and will rob you of a few miles because of the current draw. 

[jsamp]

 

I love the quote in your graphic.

 

My wife doesn't appreciate how much I live by that quote. ;)

Edited January 4, 2018 at 05:36 PM by jsamp

[Kaleido]

Right now I'm getting 9 on a full charge. My mileage for the last 4 weeks is 39.73 mpg  2017 Platinum  8000 miles 

Edited January 6, 2018 at 12:10 PM by Kaleido

[muzicman61]

Right now I'm getting 9 on a full charge. My mileage for the last 4 weeks is 39.73 mpg  2017 Platinum  8000 miles 

 

With the bitter cold the last few weeks I'm down to 13 on a full charge but getting about the same mpg as you.   Still far better than the 30ish i used to get with my POS 2008 Focus.

[jj2me]

Driving mostly hybrid (EV-Later), I'm seeing 29 mpg, so either way, winter is tough on the FFE's economy.

[My14Energi]

And yet i get my best mileage this time of year. Range this morning was 23 miles. So what puts more stress on the car/battery....cold up north winters or hot ass florida summers?

Edited January 8, 2018 at 06:48 PM by My14Energi

[murphy]

Cold does not put stress on the battery, it simply reduces its efficiency.

If you keep the cabin at a temperature that is comfortable for you the battery will also be comfortable since its cooling or heating air comes from the cabin through an inlet located on the package shelf.  That assumes you don't have packages on the shelf blocking the air intake opening.

[jj2me]

I read a post that suggested to never charge when it's below freezing.  Obviously, straight EV cars must charge below freezing, or they would be useless in Northern climates.

 

My FFE is kept outdoors, and I haven't charged in 10 days because the temperature has been hovering between 2°F and 25°F.  What are the negative effects of charging below freezing?  Thanks.

[murphy]

Have you also not been driving the car?  When the engine is running it is charging the hybrid portion of the battery if the main portion is empty.

I have been charging my car every winter since I got it in April 2013.  Ford designed the battery and its systems.  Only they are qualified to make pronouncements like that.  There is nothing in the owner's manual about not charging below freezing.  Presumably the charge rate is lower for a really cold battery but the process of charging will warm the battery.

 

Just so there is no confusion, there is only one battery.  1.5 kWh of it is allocated for hybrid mode.  The engine is started by drawing power from the High Voltage Battery (HVB).  The car can't be driven just using the engine.  The electric motors and the HVB are always involved.  It is not possible for the engine to move the car in reverse.  Reverse can only be done with one of the electric motors.

 

Charge your car and drive it.  There is no "below freezing" restriction.

[jj2me]

It seems that batteryuniversity might be the source of that practice.  Lithium plating of the anode is the bad effect.

 

"Table 1: Permissible temperature limits for various batteries.

Li-ion

 

Charge temperature

0°C to 45°C

(32°F to 113°F)

 

Charge advisory

No charge permitted below freezing.

Good charge/discharge performance at higher temperature but shorter life."

 

Note that batteryuniversity is talking of consumer grade Li-ion batteries (and not advanced batteries and chargers like in the FFE).

 

"Many battery users are unaware that consumer-grade lithium-ion batteries cannot be charged below 0°C (32°F). Although the pack appears to be charging normally, plating of metallic lithium can occur on the anode during a sub-freezing charge. This is permanent and cannot be removed with cycling. Batteries with lithium plating are more vulnerable to failure if exposed to vibration or other stressful conditions. Advanced chargers (Cadex) prevent charging Li-ion below freezing.

 

Advancements are being made to charge Li-ion below freezing temperatures. Charging is indeed possible with most lithium-ion cells but only at very low currents. According to research papers, the allowable charge rate at –30°C (–22°F) is 0.02C. At this low current, the charge time would stretch to over 50 hours, a time that is deemed impractical. There are, however, specialty Li-ions that can charge down to –10°C (14°F) at a reduced rate."

 

Nissan Leafs have a battery heater (4th post down) that activates at -20C/-4F.

 

No one in that 2013 Leaf thread who was living in cold climates, including someone from Norway, had experienced any notable battery degradation.  Also in that thread was the claim that the Leaf prevents regenerative braking when the battery is very cold, after which regenerative braking works progressively better as the battery heats up.

 

My temporary working guess is that our FFEs (and other EVs) use smarts (and heating, if available) to limit anode plating when charging below freezing.

[murphy]

The FFE gets its heating and cooling air from the cabin.  The thought process was probably that the battery likes the same environment as the occupants of the vehicle.

 

My Tesla has liquid heating and cooling for the battery.  When the battery is cold soaked there is very little charging going on until the battery heater brings it up to a suitable temperature.  Note that it can use the battery itself to power the battery heater as long as the SOC is above 20%.

 

Us arm chair quarterbacks need to recognize that the designers of the vehicles knew what they were doing.