pluggedin Posted March 22, 2013 at 06:38 PM Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 at 06:38 PM I stand corrected. He picked a 50 amp breaker because 40 amp breakers are not very common.Thank you murphy, I appreciate the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_h Posted March 22, 2013 at 06:59 PM Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 at 06:59 PM They want another $210 (approx) to install an on/off breaker next to the unit because, Damian (Mr Electric) said, he is installing a 50 amp breaker in the service box, which I am not going to do that because I figure it will be about a 10 year pay back for the switch. Right now I have a hybrid and will probably never go back to a conventional car... I wonder if you and others will feel the same about a PHEV and the great MPG involved, in which case you may want to spend the money now since chances are good that your next car would also need it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted March 22, 2013 at 07:33 PM Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 at 07:33 PM They want another $210 (approx) to install an on/off breaker next to the unit because, Damian (Mr Electric) said, he is installing a 50 amp breaker in the service box, which I am not going to do that because I figure it will be about a 10 year pay back for the switch.Wow! I'm glad I have been doing my own wiring for 50 years.That breaker is worth about $8 and a box to put it in is about $15. http://www.lowes.com/pd_2760-296-HOM250CP_0__?productId=1078729&Ntt=50+amp+circuit+breaker&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3D50%2Bamp%2Bcircuit%2Bbreaker&facetInfo= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluggedin Posted March 22, 2013 at 07:53 PM Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 at 07:53 PM Wow! I'm glad I have been doing my own wiring for 50 years.That breaker is worth about $8 and a box to put it in is about $15. http://www.lowes.com/pd_2760-296-HOM250CP_0__?productId=1078729&Ntt=50+amp+circuit+breaker&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3D50%2Bamp%2Bcircuit%2Bbreaker&facetInfo=Yeah, I thought it was outrageous myself and thought Damien was trying to telling me he didn't want to do it. I know enough about electricity to do that part myself though, once he gets the charger installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluggedin Posted March 22, 2013 at 08:14 PM Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 at 08:14 PM Right now I have a hybrid and will probably never go back to a conventional car... I wonder if you and others will feel the same about a PHEV and the great MPG involved, in which case you may want to spend the money now since chances are good that your next car would also need it?No, I will likely never go back to a conventional car and, as I told Murphy, I can add the on/off switch myself. And, as he points out, for a whole lot less. However, at approximately 7.8 kwh's a year, that I think was estimated the charger would use while simply being on, at 13 cents per kwh, that I currently pay, equals about $1.014 per year. Then when you factor in that I have a solar system that produces excess energy every year, the cost to me is zero. So why beat myself up? In addition, I was reading an article recently that said Ford and two other companies were researching and developing a hydrogen fueled car for production that may be available by 2017. That is where my heart lies, if the technology is solid, and that would likely be my next car. But.... If I decide to lease this years car, I will probably keep it no longer then 3 years. In that case I will probably lease at least one more car before we get to the hydrogen powered cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted March 22, 2013 at 08:41 PM Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 at 08:41 PM My estimate was 7.3 kwh per month.So 87.55 kwh per year.At 13 cents per kwh that is $26.27. The estimate was for my 3.8 kw charger which I measured at 10 watts when idling.I don't know what the idle current for a 7.6 kw charger would be. FusionEnergi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluggedin Posted March 22, 2013 at 09:04 PM Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 at 09:04 PM My estimate was 7.3 kwh per month.So 87.55 kwh per year.At 13 cents per kwh that is $26.27. The estimate was for my 3.8 kw charger which I measured at 10 watts when idling.I don't know what the idle current for a 7.6 kw charger would be.Thanks, again, murphy...knew I could count on you. What can I say, I went to school in California (no offense meant to you CA folks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted March 22, 2013 at 09:26 PM Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 at 09:26 PM Thanks, again, murphy...knew I could count on you. What can I say, I went to school in California (no offense meant to you CA folks).You are welcome. I have a degree in Electrical Engineering so I don't have to think too much about this stuff.Although when I am tired not thinking enough can get me in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy314 Posted March 24, 2013 at 04:47 AM Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 at 04:47 AM Ok, so those stats are different from what I thought I'd read at first. The Ford charger is a 7.6 not at 3.3 charger? That's new, in which case its the same as the next step up Leviton at $1000 or so. The extra capacity is only good for the Focus at this point. Well my plug, switch, and bracket are installed... taunting me for not having a charger (or car); so I popped the breaker and turned off the switch. I showed it. Week 11 of unscheduled-clean... /sigh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyersnole Posted March 24, 2013 at 05:13 AM Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 at 05:13 AM hope you get some good news soon shaggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted March 25, 2013 at 04:14 PM Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 at 04:14 PM I contacted the people at ChargePoint to see if they would sell me the unit they installed for free into many residences for collecting data for the Feds (this program is over). They said they would sell me a CT500 for $900. The benefit to a system like this is that they would also include the 2G connectivity required to collect data and analyze it over the Web, like they do for the others. Still not sure what I'm going to do. 110 is working just fine. The Ford 110 unit is quite nice, doesn't get hot like some of the others (I've heard). Perhaps it's set very low though (I know these things are controllable by the Volt, but not sure what Ford is doing/standardizing on) . They also said I could use my own electrician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyersnole Posted March 26, 2013 at 03:20 AM Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 at 03:20 AM I contacted the people at ChargePoint to see if they would sell me the unit they installed for free into many residences for collecting data for the Feds (this program is over). They said they would sell me a CT500 for $900. The benefit to a system like this is that they would also include the 2G connectivity required to collect data and analyze it over the Web, like they do for the others. Still not sure what I'm going to do. 110 is working just fine. The Ford 110 unit is quite nice, doesn't get hot like some of the others (I've heard). Perhaps it's set very low though (I know these things are controllable by the Volt, but not sure what Ford is doing/standardizing on) . They also said I could use my own electrician.Let us know what you do there. I would also be interested to know if that means you would show up on plugshare or chargepoints network... I can see it now a knock on the door at 10pm.. Can we hook up for just an hour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy314 Posted March 26, 2013 at 03:41 AM Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 at 03:41 AM Hmm, my cord would easily fit out under the door... Maybe $5 for charge? Nah, not worth the charger upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mczajka Posted March 26, 2013 at 11:41 AM Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 at 11:41 AM Let us know what you do there. I would also be interested to know if that means you would show up on plugshare or chargepoints network... I can see it now a knock on the door at 10pm.. Can we hook up for just an hour? I'm assuming that these are not publicly displayed, otherwise you would be seeing all of them (residential units) right now. I think the main benefit is that you could monitor your energy usage via their website. Other systems which are about the same price don't have this capability. If I'm going to spend $700-$1000 for a system like this, I would like to have some metering capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthdog Posted March 28, 2013 at 12:34 PM Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 at 12:34 PM So with the fact the Fusion only charges 3.8kw (see below) The car will only accept 16a (3.8 Kw) charging (I am told) but you can safely use the larger 30a (7.7 Kw chargers) you just will not get a quicker charge. Does it just make sense for the future to get the 7.7kw charger or is it just a waste of money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fusion Posted March 28, 2013 at 01:12 PM Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 at 01:12 PM I'm debating the same question. Do you buy the big one now knowing the next car will probably use it, or just buy the lower cost one now knowing the bigger one will come down in price once truly needed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted March 28, 2013 at 01:19 PM Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 at 01:19 PM So with the fact the Fusion only charges 3.8kw (see below) The car will only accept 16a (3.8 Kw) charging (I am told) but you can safely use the larger 30a (7.7 Kw chargers) you just will not get a quicker charge. Does it just make sense for the future to get the 7.7kw charger or is it just a waste of money? It depends on your situation.How long will you keep your current house? You can uninstall the charger but the wire will stay.How long will you keep the current car?Will you ever consider an all electric car?Will you ever need to charge two cars at the same time? The 7.6 KW charger draws 32 amps.It requires a 40 amp circuit (8 gauge wire) or more likely a 50 amp circuit (6 gauge wire). The 3.8 KW charger draws 16 amps.It requires a 20 amp circuit (12 gauge wire). Copper wire is expensive.How long is the run from your power panel to the garage?My power panel is at the opposite end of the house from the garage and required a 75 foot wire run.Compare the price difference between 75 feet of #12 wire and 75 feet of #6 wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthdog Posted March 28, 2013 at 01:27 PM Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 at 01:27 PM It depends on your situation.How long will you keep your current house? You can uninstall the charger but the wire will stay.How long will you keep the current car?Will you ever consider an all electric car?Will you ever need to charge two cars at the same time? The 7.6 KW charger draws 32 amps.It requires a 40 amp circuit (8 gauge wire) or more likely a 50 amp circuit (6 gauge wire). The 3.8 KW charger draws 16 amps.It requires a 20 amp circuit (12 gauge wire). Copper wire is expensive.How long is the run from your power panel to the garage?My power panel is at the opposite end of the house from the garage and required a 75 foot wire run.Compare the price difference between 75 feet of #12 wire and 75 feet of #6 wire.Well in case this is for my office and the panel is right by the door so it will come right out of the panel and the plug will be less than 6 inches away. I plan on keep the fusion for 3 years but we may by other EV's in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FusionEnergi Posted March 28, 2013 at 11:09 PM Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 at 11:09 PM I have bought two hybrids, I would not go back to a standard combustion vehicle. I now have a plug-in on the way, and i will probably only purchase plug-ins or EVs from here on. I do not intend to buy another charging station anytime soon just to keep up with the excelling technology. This is one of the reasons I purchased the 7.7 unit. With the plugshare app community and my friends/family this unit makes me more useful. Plus from my previous technology experiences you want to get the better unit so that it is not outdated as quickly. You get what you pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FusionEnergi Posted March 28, 2013 at 11:10 PM Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 at 11:10 PM (edited) Duplicate post Edited March 28, 2013 at 11:12 PM by FusionEnergi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fusion Posted March 29, 2013 at 12:16 AM Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 at 12:16 AM (edited) I'm tapping in to a 220 volt 30 amp line. 7.7 units say "30 amps". Does that mean I'll be tripping breakers every so often?? Edited March 29, 2013 at 12:26 AM by Mr. Fusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FusionEnergi Posted March 29, 2013 at 12:38 AM Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 at 12:38 AM My leviton is 32 amps, I have a 40 amp breaker. What gauge of line is fine and what is not? Just want to know if 10 gauge would work. I think it was 10 or 8 installed. I'll have to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted March 29, 2013 at 12:46 AM Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 at 12:46 AM A 40 amp breaker requires at least 8 gauge wire.A 30 amp breaker goes with 10 gauge wire. The rest of the table: 50 amp 6 ga20 amp 12 GA15 amp 14 GA You can always use a smaller breaker than the wire is rated for but never a larger breaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efudd Posted March 29, 2013 at 12:50 AM Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 at 12:50 AM (edited) What gauge is really of function of wire length and current. For the most part, an 8 gauge for 40amp, and 6 gauge for 50 amp. When in doubt go to a smaller gauge wire (less resistance, less loss). Even though the unit is only pulling 32 amps max, you'll be putting in a 40 amp breaker, and the wire gauge should sized to the breaker. Edit: Oops, looks like Murphy beat me to the response... ;) Edited March 29, 2013 at 12:51 AM by efudd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted March 29, 2013 at 12:50 AM Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 at 12:50 AM I'm tapping in to a 220 volt 30 amp line. 7.7 units say "30 amps". Does that mean I'll be tripping breakers every so often??7700 watts divided by 240 volts equals 32.08 amps.If they say it is a 30 amp unit then it is a 7200 watt (7.2 KW) unit. Where did you find a 220 volt line? My service is 240/120 volts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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