Battery life

[Jeff CA]

Hello, I am considering buying a 2014 Energi. Before I do, I would like to know how long I can expect the battery to last before it needs to be replaced? Thanks.

[jsamp]

They are designed to last 150k miles or more, but that doesn't mean 100% capacity for that long.  They will degrade slowly and may degrade more quickly under certain circumstances.  You are in a hot area, which will reduce battery life if you charge/drive on EV during hot days, even worse when using A/C while driving on EV. 

Several threads on here talk about people having lost 30% of battery capacity in under 2 years 'cause they drive on EV all the time, charge multiple times a day, Use the heat and A/C while in EV mode, and charge at faster rates.  The batteries aren't "dead" but can only get ~14miles per charge instead of 21 or more they used to.

 

Here is a great thread with lots of info:

http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/3762-battery-capacity-30k-miles-horrible/

 

Caution is the word.

Edited September 6, 2017 at 04:08 PM by jsamp

[My14Energi]

2014....51,000 miles....4.8kwh and 19 miles from full charge. I do nothing to preserve the battery, plug in whenever i can, drive it however i want to, a/c blasting all the time. So about a 10% loss over 51k miles. Oh well. Another 48k miles and the car will be gone. But my lifetime mpg is 43.2, not bad. Thats the only number that matters.

Edited September 7, 2017 at 09:49 PM by My14Energi

[troylikesbikes]

2014 with 69K. 5.6 kwh to fill up, still getting the usual EV miles from it. I use it as much like an EV as possible, but I do longer road trips which is where most of the miles come from. I do staged charging most of the time, if I don't need to fill the battery I don't, I rarely drain it all the way, 

[tflondon]

I have a 2014 and I am only getting about 12 miles on a charge now, was getting closer to 20+ when I first got the car.  I charge my car at least twice a day, once at work and then again when I return home.  

 

Does anyone know what the warranty is on the battery?  

[murphy]

Are you driving freeway speeds in EV Only mode?  That will drop your range significantly since drag increases with the square of the speed.

 

The hybrid unique warranty is 8 years / 100,000 miles in most states.  I think I remember it is different in California.  It is on your Monroney sticker.

It apparently does not warrant normal range loss unless it drops to zero (battery failure).

[tflondon]

I drive about 10 miles at freeway speed and 15 miles in stop/go traffic.  I usually turn on the ICE for the freeway driving, and then switch to battery when I get to the stop/go traffic.   

 

It is only taking about 4.5KW to charge the car now when it use to take 6+.  I was trying to find someplace where the warranty indicates what "normal range" loss is, but it seems to be lacking that information.  I asked the dealer last time I had the car in for an oil change and they had no idea, said he wasn't even sure what the process was to test the battery.  He would have to reach out to Ford if I wanted to leave my car for a few days.

[jj2me]

New car = 5.6 kWh EV-mode capacity "in the tank"

~0.72 L1 charging efficiency

~0.80 L2 charging efficiency

 

Guesstimating the capacity loss (the best ways to measure your capacity is the drive test and/or hook up a PID reader), and assuming your "6+" was 6.5 kWh and was measured at your home meter (as was the 4.5 kWh figure), and doing calculations for both L1 and L2 charging because you didn't specify, 

- Then: 6.5*.72 = 4.68 kWh EV-mode capacity "in the tank" using a L1 charger (L2 = 5.2 kWh)

- Now:  4.5*.72 - 3.24 kWh EV-mode capacity "in the tank" using a L1 charger (L2 = 3.6 kWh)

 

Note that the "Then" figure above is unimportant, you want to calculate what the HVB has lost from new.

 

5.6 - 3.2 L1 (3.6 L2) = 2.3 (2.0 L2) kWh EV-mode capacity lost.

 

This post in the C-Max forum says Ford will likely use the entire 7.6 kWh pack as the denominator in determining the percentage lost, while you care (rightfully so) about plug-in capacity lost.

2.3/7.6 = 30% degradation since new (26% L2) in their view,

2.3/5.6 = 41% degradation since new (36% L2) in your view.

 

Just a guesstimate, Ford may have a way to determine total pack capacity loss, and thus find more degradation, I don't know.

[apm]

Hello,

 

My 2013 FFE is only getting about 10 miles to a full charge now. It used to get 21 when new. It seems that I'm below 50% of the original capacity.

 

Does anyone know how the warranty on the battery works? What percentage it has to degrade for Ford to consider doing anything about it?

 

Thanks,
APM

[jsamp]

Hello,

 

My 2013 FFE is only getting about 10 miles to a full charge now. It used to get 21 when new. It seems that I'm below 50% of the original capacity.

 

Does anyone know how the warranty on the battery works? What percentage it has to degrade for Ford to consider doing anything about it?

 

Thanks,

APM

 

The people on here who have gone to bat against Ford trying to get a battery replaced have mostly just gained frustration.  The one guy who was successful had pretty severe degradation (well over 30%).  The rest just got the runaround from Ford. 

 

First you have to find a dealer that will actually understand the issue because most don't.

Then you have to get them to get Ford to approve testing (which you have to pay for)

then they usually come back with "normal degradation" but no data, and you're SOL.

[jeff_h]

then they usually come back with "normal degradation" but no data, and you're SOL.

 

And that's what I figure would happen with my wife's 2013 Energi, which used to have 5.2-5.7 when new and now after 5 1/2 years and 67k miles it only goes 3.2-3.5 on a charge.

 

And that's why I will never get another one that has air cooling like the Energi or the Nissan Leaf.  My 2017 Bolt is now my heavy commuter (my wife and I had twin Energis from the end of 2013 to late 2015), and on the way home today I passed the 78k miles mark and battery degradation is zero.  So we are awaiting a suitable PHEV SUV for her in order to replace her Energi (but not a Tesla SUV that costs a bundle), but we definitely don't want an air cooled HVB.

[bdginmo]

I have 56,000 miles on my 2015. I did an HVB drawdown test today. I got 5.4 kwh and 28 miles so I've lost no more than 0.2 kwh of capacity. I have about 475 charge/discharge cycles on the battery. I'm very careful about temperature management of the HVB. I don't charge or use the HVB during the summer. The HVB stays at 0% SoC (as reported by the car) for at least 4 months out of the year during the summer. Because I use value charging my car is only at 100% SoC for about 5% of the time. My car is at 0% SoC about 65% of time. The remaining 30% of the time the car has a partial charge. My situation is consistent with the other reports that 1) 0% SoC does not harm the battery and 2) avoiding the use of the HVB in hot conditions mitigates the degradation.

[murphy]

0% indicated SOC is not 0% SOC of the battery.  The 0.5 kW protection area and the 1.5 kW hybrid area are both below that point.

[bdginmo]

When I say 0% SoC I'm referring to the value reported by the car in the My Ford Touch screen. I realize the actual SoC is more like 15%. My point is that I leave the "uncharged" for months on end.

[jsamp]

I have 56,000 miles on my 2015. I did an HVB drawdown test today. I got 5.4 kwh and 28 miles so I've lost no more than 0.2 kwh of capacity. I have about 475 charge/discharge cycles on the battery. I'm very careful about temperature management of the HVB. I don't charge or use the HVB during the summer. The HVB stays at 0% SoC (as reported by the car) for at least 4 months out of the year during the summer. Because I use value charging my car is only at 100% SoC for about 5% of the time. My car is at 0% SoC about 65% of time. The remaining 30% of the time the car has a partial charge. My situation is consistent with the other reports that 1) 0% SoC does not harm the battery and 2) avoiding the use of the HVB in hot conditions mitigates the degradation.

 

This is consistent with what has been reported by those who bought a lease return that never got charged.  They'd been driven for 2-3 years in hybrid mode only and had near zero degradation.  Mine was 5.4kWh at 50k miles.  I just rolled 60k so I will test it again and report back.

[jsamp]

Finally got a chance to do the test today.  5.5kWh to hybrid mode, and 28.5 miles.  Mostly back country roads of gentle rolling terrain, with one grade of ~400' elevation gain.  Somehow I got better than last time though it was probably statistically in the noise level.

 

My usage profile is value charge to ~90% right before leaving, and arrive at work with a little more than 50% left.  No charging at work.  Return home with ~10% remaining.  I do use some gas at certain points on my route, when accelerating onto the freeway or pulling a hill.  Heat is only used when the gas engine is on.  Climate is mild all year so the profile applies year-round.

Edited November 5, 2018 at 06:18 AM by jsamp