jj2me Posted April 15, 2018 at 08:55 PM Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 at 08:55 PM Great stuff, thanks to both of you. So I guess I'll need to first tie a rope to the emergency trunk release in the trunk, and pass it through to the passenger compartment through the pass-through. I so wish car manufacturers had kept a few mechanical cable releases (emergency brake and now this). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted April 15, 2018 at 10:01 PM Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 at 10:01 PM Great stuff, thanks to both of you. So I guess I'll need to first tie a rope to the emergency trunk release in the trunk, and pass it through to the passenger compartment through the pass-through. I so wish car manufacturers had kept a few mechanical cable releases (emergency brake and now this).Sorry, I forgot about that. My car has a rope in place. However you could connect 12 volts to the jump terminals under the hood to get the power to open the trunk. jj2me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj2me Posted April 15, 2018 at 11:43 PM Report Share Posted April 15, 2018 at 11:43 PM Sorry, I forgot about that. My car has a rope in place. However you could connect 12 volts to the jump terminals under the hood to get the power to open the trunk. Thanks much again. I just assumed that there might be some incomplete circuit where if the battery wasn't connected then a jump from the under-hood terminals wouldn't work. That's the way I'd like to do it, with the rope as a backup. It's more certain, in case the rope were to slip somehow. What a helpful forum this is. 4cylinder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted April 16, 2018 at 09:39 AM Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 at 09:39 AM This is why it is best to not disconnect the positive cable from the battery. If it was disconnected it would have to be wrapped with insulation so there was no possibility that it could come in contact with the frame of the car. The negative cable is already connected to the frame of the car so there is no risk with it. jj2me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4cylinder Posted April 16, 2018 at 01:09 PM Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 at 01:09 PM FWIW I took a 2-week trip in the second half of December 2017, leaving the car in my unheated garage during an extreme Michigan winter. While the car was plugged in, the GFCI outlet in my garage got tripped by the home heater working extra hard, so the car never actually charged much when I was away. I did not hook up any smart battery maintainer like murphy does, though I plan to buy one eventually. The car still started when I got back. To be safe, I left it running for about 15 minutes with the charger plugged in, before actually driving 20 minutes to work. I suspect that if I'd parked the car outdoors I wouldn't have been so lucky. I keep a portable battery jumper in the glove compartment so I don't have to worry about being locked out of the trunk, and I also have larger jumper cables stored in my garage. I would recommend not leaving the car in airport parking. Leave it in the garage or at a friend's house - anywhere where you have easy access to necessary tools just in case the 12V dies, just to have some peace of mind. I do have to pay about $60 each way to use Lyft to reach the airport, but it's worth it. jj2me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj2me Posted April 16, 2018 at 08:51 PM Report Share Posted April 16, 2018 at 08:51 PM (edited) Just attached a rope to the emergency trunk release and placed the other end in the passenger compartment, as a backup. Took off the negative battery cable, then tested the underhood battery boost, and yes, just as you, murphy, stated, it gives me juice allowing me to open the trunk with the trunk release button at the back of the car. So two ways to open the trunk. Thanks again. (Re the negative battery cable in the 2017: Although there's a fat negative post like in cars since the '40s, the thick terminal that's on the post doesn't need to come off. The battery cable comes off with a 13mm nut, and it looks like a motorcycle battery cable, just a ring terminal that goes over the 13mm bolt.) Edited April 16, 2018 at 08:52 PM by jj2me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjr Posted April 28, 2018 at 02:57 AM Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 at 02:57 AM This is a great thread. Just bought my 2014 FFE this week and already had the joy of the battery being dead at the end of the day the second day in. Needless to say, that wasn't exactly a confidence booster. The previous (first) owner did not appear to take great care of this car nor take any effort to learn to drive it efficiently. I was worried the dead battery was due to their negligence but after reading through this thread I am learning many useful facts about that 12v battery. Thanks for all the information! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted April 28, 2018 at 09:54 AM Report Share Posted April 28, 2018 at 09:54 AM If you have a short commute the car may not be on long enough to fully charge the 12 volt battery. When the HVB finishes charging you will get a notice that charging is complete. That is misleading because that is when the charging of the 12 volt battery starts. You need to wait until the EVSE charging indicator goes off before disconnecting it from the car. jjr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjr Posted May 19, 2018 at 04:07 PM Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 at 04:07 PM murphy -Thanks for the tip on the small, 12V battery stored in the glove box. It has already come in handy and was cheaper (and smaller) than a jump box! Taking the car in on Monday to get them to check for out of date software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bockegg Posted February 21, 2019 at 08:35 PM Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 at 08:35 PM I've had this car for over 2 years. Love the car but every time I go to the airport for a week the 12 volt battery is dead. I didn't expect this. I took it into Ford and had the battery replaced a little over a year ago and it still happens. Unfortunately, I put the car up for sale (perfect condition). When I drive it daily, or every few days it is fine, and I plug it in every night. I am disappointed that I will be selling it because it is a beauty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted February 21, 2019 at 09:16 PM Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 at 09:16 PM That is a problem with almost any car that is computer controlled which means that it is never off. I solved the problem on my 2013 by replacing the factory supplied wet cell battery with an AGM battery. The only way I have found to prevent the problem is to connect a smart 12 volt battery charger to the jumper terminals under the hood when it will be parked for a long time. ptjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bockegg Posted February 22, 2019 at 02:34 AM Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 at 02:34 AM That is a problem with almost any car that is computer controlled which means that it is never off. I solved the problem on my 2013 by replacing the factory supplied wet cell battery with an AGM battery. The only way I have found to prevent the problem is to connect a smart 12 volt battery charger to the jumper terminals under the hood when it will be parked for a long time.Thanks for the update. This is exactly why I will be selling the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bockegg Posted February 22, 2019 at 03:16 AM Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 at 03:16 AM There are lots (technical term) of microprocessors in an Energi. They run all of the time. In a weeks time of non use the 12 volt battery will be discharged. When mine will be sitting for a long time I connect a battery charger to the 12 volt battery, using the under hood terminals, to keep it charged. I replaced the wet cell lead acid battery in my Energi with an AGM battery in late 2013. An AGM battery maintains its voltage to a much lower discharge level than a wet cell battery does. In spite of that I need to keep an eye on it. I have a 12 volt 7 AH gel cell battery in my glove compartment along with some home made 12 gauge jumper cables in the event the battery goes flat. So far I haven't needed to use it. I check its charge level every couple of months.The Energi is not an inexpensive car. My friend has a Tesla that he can park at an airport for a week without a problem. Another friend has a plug in Prius that can be left at the airport for a week without this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bockegg Posted February 22, 2019 at 03:27 AM Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 at 03:27 AM Got my 2017 Energi back. The 12volt battery tested fine. The service manager told me that it was likely my driving style that caused the 12volt to go dead. I had been conducting much of my driving to work each day in EVNow only mode to ensure as little ICE usage as possible and manually switching between EVNow and EVLater when appropriate (known city driving and highway) so as to use the HVB where it works best: city driving. The manager noted that rarely driving in Auto means that the car is expending the 12volt battery to start the ICE and managing the electronics prior to HVB take-over and is never able to fully recharge it via the alternator thus causing my failure. He noted that plugging the car in to charge the EVB never charges the 12volt battery. Thus, he said that it is best to just always drive in Auto and don't bother switching modes - let the car figure things out on its own and it'll start the ICE (when in Auto mode) if the 12volt is needing to be charged by the alternator. It is sad that he blamed it on you, especially because he doesn't even know that our Energi cars don't have alternators. That was the biggest pile of bull I ever heard. This is a total flaw in the engineering of the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Creed III Posted February 22, 2019 at 02:16 PM Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 at 02:16 PM Got my 2017 Energi back. The 12volt battery tested fine. The service manager told me that it was likely my driving style that caused the 12volt to go dead. I had been conducting much of my driving to work each day in EVNow only mode to ensure as little ICE usage as possible and manually switching between EVNow and EVLater when appropriate (known city driving and highway) so as to use the HVB where it works best: city driving. The manager noted that rarely driving in Auto means that the car is expending the 12volt battery to start the ICE and managing the electronics prior to HVB take-over and is never able to fully recharge it via the alternator thus causing my failure. He noted that plugging the car in to charge the EVB never charges the 12volt battery. Thus, he said that it is best to just always drive in Auto and don't bother switching modes - let the car figure things out on its own and it'll start the ICE (when in Auto mode) if the 12volt is needing to be charged by the alternator. It is sad that he blamed it on you, especially because he doesn't even know that our Energi cars don't have alternators. That was the biggest pile of bull I ever heard. This is a total flaw in the engineering of the vehicle. In the year+ since the 12volt battery issue was finally resolved (resolved by replacing the defective-from-the-factory 12volt battery and several rounds of software updates), I have had no further 12volt battery issues even though my driving style has remained largely unchanged. ptjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bockegg Posted February 23, 2019 at 04:54 AM Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 at 04:54 AM In the year+ since the 12volt battery issue was finally resolved (resolved by replacing the defective-from-the-factory 12volt battery and several rounds of software updates), I have had no further 12volt battery issues even though my driving style has remained largely unchanged. Thank you for the update. I will have to get on my dealership to run some software updates since I just had the battery replaced not that long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bockegg Posted February 23, 2019 at 04:55 AM Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 at 04:55 AM Thank you for the update. I will have to get on my dealership to run some software updates since I just had the battery replaced not that long ago.I am curious if you have let the car sit without plugging it in for 10 days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4cylinder Posted February 25, 2019 at 05:05 PM Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 at 05:05 PM (edited) FWIW I left my car plugged in inside my garage for 3 weeks during a Michigan winter (I do not have a smart battery maintainer) and it started right back up when I got back. The 12V is more resilient than I expected. My garage is not a fancy heated type, but it does provide a reasonable amount of insulation (at least a 10C difference between inside and outside) which probably helps. I would not expect to see the same result if I'd left the car in, say, airport long-term parking (or even on my driveway), where it would be directly exposed to harsh cold. Nevertheless, I have a portable jumper in my center console storage just in case the worst happens. It stays plugged into my 12V port all the time (I used ForScan to make the 12V shut off instantly when the car is off, so it doesn't cause issues) so it always will have a charge if I ever need it. Edited February 25, 2019 at 05:06 PM by 4cylinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted March 13, 2019 at 01:45 AM Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 at 01:45 AM Hi all - new guy here. I just bought a "manufacturer buy-back" a.k.a. lemon 2017 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium. the original owner put about 5900 miles on it over the course of a year or so, and (from the service records that I saw) started having the dead 12V battery issue. Apparently the dealer couldn't resolve the issue, so Ford bought the car back. They ran some firmware updates, replaced the 12V battery, changed the oil and put it back up for sale. So, I'm on week one with the car now, like it a lot, but am being very attentive to the 12V system for now. I bought an OBDlink MX+ on a whim this weekend, and started messing with it last night in the garage....where I noticed something that struck me funny. I do not remember the parameter name (can probably re-check it if anyone cares)...it was something like 12V battery voltage. Anyway, sitting in the car, with the ignition on but not started (blinking green light on ignition button), I noticed the reading for the 12V battery was bouncing right about 15V. This seems quite high for a charge voltage. Upon turning the ignition off, the car responded as I expected, the voltage dropped into the low 13s and was creeping lower for the few seconds I watched it. My Point...do you suppose there is some correlation between the HV to 12V DC-DC running at 15V, and the battery failures that have occurred (both with my car before I owned it and others)? Looking for ideas to further vet out this theory...let me know if you have any ideas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted March 13, 2019 at 09:43 AM Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 at 09:43 AM Use a high quality volt meter to measure the voltage at the battery terminals. The maximum charging voltage should be around 14.4 volts. Check the wires in the trunk just in front of the battery. You will have to look through the battery access door. There were reports of the wires rubbing on a sheet metal edge that caused battery drain problems. I encased mine in foam rubber to keep them away from the metal edge. Mine is a 2013. I would hope that this had been fixed in a 2017. If you drive the car every day you shouldn't have a problem. If you drive the car once a week you will have 12 volt battery problems. There are many always on microprocessors in the car that put a constant load on the 12 volt battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj2me Posted March 13, 2019 at 05:16 PM Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 at 05:16 PM (edited) Was your car on? I just got different readings on my 2017 FFE Titanium using one of those cheap voltmeter displays you plug into the cigarette lighter socket:Car on, transmission in Park: 15VCar off: 12.5V Edited March 13, 2019 at 05:45 PM by jj2me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted March 14, 2019 at 03:01 AM Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 at 03:01 AM If you drive the car every day you shouldn't have a problem. If you drive the car once a week you will have 12 volt battery problems. This tidbit of info is why I felt little hesitation in buying the car. Given the mileage (5900 miles) over the period that the original owner has the car (bought late 2016, sold back to Ford in late 2018), plus the suspect problem batteries from the factory, I figured the "wounds" were self inflicted, and there was probably little to nothing wrong with the car (especially after the original battery was replaced last month). I will be sure to get a multimeter and check the voltage at the battery terminals under the same conditions....15V just struck me funny, especially with the car not fully "ON". Will report back hopefully this weekend if time permits. Big thanks to the info on this forum. Hell, I just bought a 2 year old car for less than 1/2 price new, with only 5900 miles on the odometer. I'm satisfied and fingers crossed will be for many miles! Lol, never thought I'd have a Ford for a daily driver! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4cylinder Posted March 14, 2019 at 06:01 PM Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 at 06:01 PM Was your car on? I just got different readings on my 2017 FFE Titanium using one of those cheap voltmeter displays you plug into the cigarette lighter socket:Car on, transmission in Park: 15VCar off: 12.5V I have an aftermarket heads-up display that is powered from the OBD port. When the car first starts while in Park, the HUD always shows the battery voltage briefly for a sanity check before switching to show my speed. It's always 15-15.4V when I start it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted March 14, 2019 at 06:35 PM Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 at 06:35 PM When the car is turned on the DC to DC converter starts charging the 12 volt battery from the HVB, It's the same function an alternator provides in a standard car. The Energi does not have an alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted March 23, 2019 at 06:12 AM Report Share Posted March 23, 2019 at 06:12 AM When the car is turned on the DC to DC converter starts charging the 12 volt battery from the HVB, It's the same function an alternator provides in a standard car. The Energi does not have an alternator. there lies the concern. An alternator in a conventional car charges in the 14.4V range. the DC-DC charging seems to be at a higher voltage (15V or higher as some suggest) be an attributing factor to 12V battery failure...especially IF those Hermosillo batteries were marginal to start with? beyond that....why did they even bother with a 12V battery at all? I assume its a bridge/artifact of the times, and does serve some lesser purpose, but couldn't they have just as easily deleted it and run everything off the HVB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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