2019 Ford 'Model E' hybrid, electric car coming from Mexico plant?

[meyersnole]

2019 Ford 'Model E' hybrid, electric car coming from Mexico plant?

 

Ford to invest $1.6 billion in new Mexico small-car plant, create 2,800 jobs

 

Looks like the Model E is targeted for production in 2018 as a 2019 model, replaces the C-Max but may look more like the Focus and will not have a gasoline only engine. (Hybrid, PHEV, & BEV). 

[howardbc]

That's exciting news but I still wish Ford had made the Fusion into an EV. If they had, it would be Ford selling 300+ instead of Tesla. 

[Russael]

I'm irritated that they're putting the new plant in Mexico... not the USA.  :ohsnap:

Edited April 7, 2016 at 08:16 PM by Russael

[larryh]

Mexico labor costs are $8/hr.  US is more than $60/hr.  Ford reserves expensive US labor for high margin vehicles like trucks and SUVs.  They use the cheaper labor for less profitable mid-sized/small cars. 

[Russael]

With all the talk of taxing the bejesus out of putting labor outside the country... how is it still less expensive to still do that?

 

Furthermore... foreign car makers such as Honda put labor in the USA... how is it less expensive for them to buy our labor force?

Edited April 7, 2016 at 09:02 PM by Russael

[openair]

Furthermore... foreign car makers such as Honda put labor in the USA... how is it less expensive for them to buy our labor force?

My guess is Nafta and the percentage of parts tariffs. Honda likely doesn't as much in tariffs now that more of their parts come from within NA.

[jeff_h]

Furthermore... foreign car makers such as Honda put labor in the USA... how is it less expensive for them to buy our labor force?

 

I think it's quite a bit cheaper when the labor force is not unionized, and I don't see any Honda, Hyundai, or Toyota models shown on the list of cars below.

 

People can form their own opinions as to the value of unions (I'm not making a normative statement about them here as to one way or the other), as of course they can get better pay and benefits for the membership, but the downside is that it may end up pricing their labor at a level where the manufacturers choose to use non-union labor, whether inside the US or outside.

 

http://uaw.org/uaw-made-car/

Edited April 7, 2016 at 09:49 PM by jeff_h

[meyersnole]

An interesting thought from a facebook comment I saw, Ford (or other big brands) could have a massive charging infrastructure up in no time if they decided to leverage their dealerships. Could model this network from Tesla and have a buy in, or charge a nominal fee (too much and it would go unused). 

 

All dealerships that are PHEV certified already have a L2 system in place (minimum of 2 charging stations), they could increase this requirement to include a L3 charging station by 2019 when the model E becomes available.  Ford would be wise to subsidise some of the smaller dealerships aways from the big cities to encourage a bigger network.  This would have the effect of putting it into direct competition with Tesla and one upping GM which has declared they would make no such investment.

 

Tesla up to over 325,000 pre orders for a car that is not even fully baked... or that Tesla is even capable of producing in a timely manner... Partnership opportunity anyone? Speaking of partnership, I am surprised none of the other companies are interested in buying into Tesla's network, when the patents were offered up I thought that signaled Elon was willing to partner. 

[Energized]

With all the talk of taxing the bejesus out of putting labor outside the country... how is it still less expensive to still do that?

 

Furthermore... foreign car makers such as Honda put labor in the USA... how is it less expensive for them to buy our labor force?

Honda is doing the same, putting low margin car production in Mexico. They just opened a brand new plant building the Fit.

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140221/OEM01/140229971/hondas-celaya-plant-boosts-mexico-factory-presence#

[flyingcheesehead]

An interesting thought from a facebook comment I saw, Ford (or other big brands) could have a massive charging infrastructure up in no time if they decided to leverage their dealerships. Could model this network from Tesla and have a buy in, or charge a nominal fee (too much and it would go unused). 

 

 

Disagree - There aren't dealers along the interstates through the interior of the country. Nissan has tried to do what you described, and mostly failed miserably. I looked at buying a Leaf from Minneapolis and driving it back here to Milwaukee. Damn near impossible, because all of those Nissan L3's are in Minneapolis - At least a dozen within the range of the car if I buy it on the opposite side of town - But as soon as you get out of the cities, it's 240 miles to Madison before you see another L3. There are some spots where even making it to the next L2 would be difficult.

[meyersnole]

Did not look at all the major interstates, but looking at US10, US40, and US95 it does appear that there are a significant number of dealerships either right on the highway or just off. Granted there are a few stretches in Texas that one might fear some range anxiety.   So there might need to be a few charge stations at locations other than a dealership, but it would get them a significant part of the way to a network.

 

A leaf only has a 70-90 mile range, the proposed Ford model E would be in the 200 mile range. 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/search/ford+dealerships/@35.7611341,-78.963158,9z

[PJFW8]

Poor timing for EV fans! You will be able to trade your 3 year old Bolt for a 2020 Ford E. Even Tesla will have a 2 year advantage and is likely to offer a 300 miles (or more) range option soon. A 200 mile Focus E at $25,000 might sell, but not to me. I want a Lincoln MKC electric with a 320 range! I'd pay $45,000 for that. I am convinced that Ford has elected to follow on EV's after years of leading. From a profit perspective that is probably the right choice.

[meyersnole]

At least Ford is not pretending to sell PHEVs.

 

http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

 

They sold almost as many Fusions as Nissan did Leaf's last month.  It will be interesting to see what happens with the numbers when the Volt refresh starts to be reflected in the numbers.

 

Tesla seems to be the first manufacturer to sell an electric car in the numbers you would see an ICE sell. This market is still very young and too early figure out what any manufacturer is really doing. 

[Energized]

Let's face it, Ford's projections of the plugin market and Ford's product response to those projections have been more realistic. Time has proven their projections correct. Nissan and GM grossly overestimated consumer demand for plugins and badly missed what the market was looking for and willing to pay for.

 

The fact that Ford sold as many Fusion Energis as Nissan speaks volumes.

 

Since Ford seems to be more grounded in the realities of the market and more in tune with what the public really wants when it comes to plugins. I have little doubt their $4.5 Billion investment in 13 new electrified vehicles before 2020 will be well matched to market demands.

Edited April 10, 2016 at 05:01 PM by Energized

[murphy]

The Energi didn't sell all that well because the dealers didn't want any part of them.  I had a tough time finding an electric certified dealer when I ordered mine in 2013.  I ordered it because no one had one in stock.

[openair]

Let's face it, Ford's projections of the plugin market and Ford's product response to those projections have been more realistic. Time has proven their projections correct.

 

Since Ford seems to be more grounded in the realities of the market and more in tune with what the public really wants when it comes to plugins. I have little doubt their $4.5 Billion investment in 13 new electrified vehicles before 2020 will be well matched to market demands.

That's one way to spin it but since ford also released a BEV with similar specs to the leaf I call fanboy.

 

In reality what ford did is say this is not a (guessing) game. It's real life and lots of jobs. So they convered their bases by releasing some of everything.

The Energi didn't sell all that well because the dealers didn't want any part of them. I had a tough time finding an electric certified dealer when I ordered mine in 2013. I ordered it because no one had one in stock.

If you combine the two energi models they're at worst tied for second place. Both so far this year and for 2015 as well. I don't call that not selling well.

 

"But that's not fair to others on the list!" Combining these two vehicle's sales that have identical powertrains and really just offer more choice to the consumer is no less unfair than putting BEVs and PHEVs on the same list like they're competitors to begin with.

Edited April 10, 2016 at 11:55 PM by openair

[flyingcheesehead]

Let's face it, Ford's projections of the plugin market and Ford's product response to those projections have been more realistic. Time has proven their projections correct. Nissan and GM grossly overestimated consumer demand for plugins and badly missed what the market was looking for and willing to pay for.

 

The fact that Ford sold as many Fusion Energis as Nissan speaks volumes.

 

Since Ford seems to be more grounded in the realities of the market and more in tune with what the public really wants when it comes to plugins. I have little doubt their $4.5 Billion investment in 13 new electrified vehicles before 2020 will be well matched to market demands.

 

That's one way to look at it. "There's no demand for EVs, so we're just going to build a few so that we have something to sell to people who want an EV."

 

The other way is to do what Tesla is doing: Creating new demand for EVs by creating a product so compelling that 325,000 people are willing to drop $1,000 just to get in line in the first week. That's 10 times the number of Fusion Energis Ford has sold in over three YEARS.

[meyersnole]

The Energi didn't sell all that well because the dealers didn't want any part of them.  I had a tough time finding an electric certified dealer when I ordered mine in 2013.  I ordered it because no one had one in stock.

 

 

I also went to another dealer to place an order because the one that was the most convenient, and closest, was also the dealership that really didn't want to sell me the car. They would have let me purchase one, but they knew nothing about it and the salesman kept inferring that the cars were a poor choice.  I went with an order because I was looking at the car before they were on the lots.

 

I agree with better training Ford could have sold many more of these vehicles. 

 

The market seems to be changing thanks to Tesla. GM and Nissan have responded with longer range BEVs. I am a bit surprised that it is taking Ford so long to respond, and wish that they would have at least improved the range of the PHEVs as GM did with the Volt. Will be curious how long it will take before we start hearing more about the Model E. 

[jeff_h]

The Energi didn't sell all that well because the dealers didn't want any part of them.  I had a tough time finding an electric certified dealer when I ordered mine in 2013.  I ordered it because no one had one in stock.

 

Coincidence that this thread has come up, along with the discussion of Ford and their dealers' interest in EVs/PHEVs.  Below is from my survey input to last week's dealer visit where they took care of the 4 outstanding recalls (her car really is a great car, goes to the dealer once per year for inspections so it was time), however in past years we drop the car off the night prior and plug in at their station in front of the dealer and write "parked on charger" on the night drop envelope -- except this time.  So when they had the survey questions about "I really love my dealer" and "my dealer really cares about my car" or whatever the exact wording was, I chose "strongly disagree" for both.  Whether they will even notice the response or care I have no idea, but won't ever buy a car there again as long as that spot is taken.

 

"I have a PHEV and this dealer is a Certified Electric Dealer, but instead of supporting that concept they blocked off their charging station with a reserved space for the owner of the dealership.  That shows their true sentiments and lack of commitment to EV owners, so I would never purchase another vehicle from them and am very disappointed that instead of reserving one of many other spots, they chose to snub the EV owners."

[murphy]

The dealer I purchased from always had cars waiting for service parked in the EV charging spot.  They built a new building which obliterated the charging spot.  If they put it somewhere else I haven't found it.  They have never charged my car when it was in for service.  When they installed the door latch recall the battery was run down to zero, probably by the technician(s) warming the cabin while they worked.

[howardbc]

Yes. I'm sorry to say that I have to echo all of the comments about Ford not really being committed to selling non-ICE cars. Starting with the salesperson who knew less than me and really wasn't that interested, to no advertising, to no charging, to trying to sell me on oil changes I didn't need, and just a general lack of enthusiasm for any car that has a battery other than just a 12-volt. 

 

But it's not just Ford. I hear complaints from Chevy Volt owners that their cars are not being promoted. And Nissan Leaf owners who find the charging stations blocked or ICEd. Of course it doesn't help when the media and the politicians either ignore or deny climate change. I believe that some executives at Ford really are trying to promote plugins but they are not being supported by the higher-ups. 

 

Hopefully Tesla has awakened enough people to where there will now start to be some genuine interest in plugin cars across the board. 

[murphy]

Hopefully Tesla has awakened enough people to where there will now start to be some genuine interest in plugin cars across the board. 

 

I am on my second Tesla model S since buying the Energi.  That's a lot of money that Ford lost out on because they are not in the market yet.

 

I still have the Energi.

[Energized]

That's one way to look at it. "There's no demand for EVs, so we're just going to build a few so that we have something to sell to people who want an EV."

 

.

Who are you quoting? That's not my quote, and I would prefer if you don't ascribe words to me that I did not write. Let's try to keep things professional and unemotional.

Edited April 16, 2016 at 10:51 PM by Energized

[JATR4]

I am on my second Tesla model S since buying the Energi.  That's a lot of money that Ford lost out on because they are not in the market yet.

 

I still have the Energi.

My buddy in Fallbrook, CA has a Tesla sedan--not the S--and is awaiting delivery on a new model X.  He will be adding more solar panels.  The tech told him the efficiency has improved and he will only need 10 more panels to have zero electricity cost--including his AC and other home electrical costs.  He has had zero electric costs for the past two years.

[meyersnole]

Hopefully Tesla has awakened enough people to where there will now start to be some genuine interest in plugin cars across the board. 

 

I think that Tesla has their attention, but lower oil cost have reinvigorated the larger SUV type market.

 

As mileage efficiency improves and memories fade about how much pain $4+/gal at the pump can cause, the automakers will continue to pump that market and the high margins associated with the larger vehicles.  

 

Another benefit of Tesla is the volume of batteries produced is having an effect on cost, this is beneficial to all manufacturers that participate. Will be interesting to see what happens when Tesla's battery facility goes online freeing up their other supply chain (unless they just leverage both). Battery research also seems right on the cusp of a breakthrough... the real impediment to a viable BEV in my opinion.