Battery capacity @ 30K miles horrible

[unhappycustomer]

What bothers me that there is a warranty by law. I seems they don’t want to honor the warranty that they have to provide by law. That’s really not right.

[My14Energi]

My kwh has decreased but range is still 20

[kjhansen]

Hi All,

Sorry, I'm a bit late to this thread and I wish I would have known about the battery range degradation before I bought my 2016 Energi SE.

 

Anyway, I'm seeing a similar issue with my Energi; when I 1st got it I would see ~6.5kWh registered on the Charge Point charger. Now, after 55K miles it only takes ~4.8kWh for a full charge. These readings are both at about the same ambient temperature. BTW; I read somewhere that the battery capacity is actually 7.6kWh so Ford must not be charging to full (but to ~85% of capacity) to help preserve the battery. When I 1st got the car I mapped out a route that was close to 21 miles. Interestingly, the car still can travel that same route without running out of battery during similar ambient conditions.

 

Is there a way to more accurately measure the number of miles driven using battery only? I have simply been using the odometer (take a reading when you start and when the EV Mode automatically kicks into Auto Mode. Note; I include the mile or so the car will go once it switches into "Hybrid Mode".

 

I have posted this information on this site before, but here it is again;

The Energi is an excellent car in many ways, but one major failing is the forced air cooling system for the battery. The super heated battery cooling air is exhausted into the enclosed trunk. Of course the trunk is where the battery "lives"! When I charge the car in my garage, I open the trunk and pull up the trunk floor board as well as the foam insert that holds the air pump and L1 charger. This allows the hot air to escape.

 

When it is 100F+ outside and the car has been charging outside, it will not run in EV mode, because the battery is too hot. I presume there is an over temperature mechanism that inhibits the EV Mode when the battery is too hot. However, that "safety mode" doesn't seem to kick in during charging in too hot a condition. 

 

I have placed thermo-couples in various locations on the metal battery housing and the maximum temperature I have seen is 113F (45C). 45C is the well published temperature above which Li-Ion batteries significantly degrade. So, Ford's poor cooling system at least keeps battery in a safe temperature range. You won't be able to drive in EV Mode during those conditions though.

[murphy]

Battery Capacity:

 

Battery protection 0.5 kWh

Hybrid mode 1.5 kWh

EV Only mode 5.6 kWh

 

Total 7.6 kWh

 

Drive in EV Only mode to get an accurate reading of EV miles.

 

It is unnecessary to open up the trunk like that.  The fans exhaust the hot air underneath the car.  Make sure the intake vent on the package shelf is not blocked.  The car design assumes the passengers  will keep the cabin comfortable.  Cabin air is used to cool the battery.

 

Charging is not efficient.  120 volt charging is worse than 240 volt charging.

 

I live north of Philadelphia, PA.  My car has never refused to run in EV Only mode.  From late spring to early Fall my engine does not run at all.

[kjhansen]

Hi Murphy,

Please show me a photo or diagram of where the hot battery cooling air is discharged "underneath the car". I cannot find any outlet for this hot air.

 

Note; there are two cooling fans; the one on the right side (passenger side) of the car is for the Inverter. That fan either draws air in from under the car or inside the trunk (I suppose based on outside air temperature) via a short black plastic tube with a solenoid actuated valve (under the foam insert in the bottom of the trunk). The hot air is expelled at the back of the right rear passenger seat making that seat very hot. Look in the trunk and see for yourself. With the car charging you can easily observe all of what I'm saying by placing your hand near the places I've mentioned you can feel the hot air coming out.

 

The left side fan draws air in from the rear deck lid then discharges it INSIDE the trunk under the thick foam insert (which contains the tire inflater and charger) in the bottom of the trunk. The only place I can see for air to escape the trunk is a baffle on the right side wall which is behind the trunk liner. I thought of cutting a hole in the back of the trunk and ducking this air out of the trunk, but this would undoubtedly void the warranty and it would bypass the Micky-Mouse battery heating scheme for cold weather. That probably doesn't matter for a CA car though.

 

My car absolutely has this EV drive-ability problem at 100F+ outside air temperatures. The local Ford dealer even sent a technician out to witness the car kick into ICE mode even though the battery had a full charge. He recorded all the temperatures, fan speeds, etc, etc data and sent it to Ford. Ford came back indicating the car was operating properly. ARGH!!! Do you ever get 100F+ days in PA?

 

So, I'm doing everything I can to preserve the battery, like pulling the foam insert out to let the super heated air out of the trunk and only charging when the garage is cool at night. Ford doesn't have a degradation clause in the warranty. Basically, the warranty only pays if the battery catastrophically fails. I only charge the car with a L2 charger, mostly in my garage.

 

The shame of it is virtually everything else on the car is well engineered, such as; a Heat Pump to provide either AC and heated cabin air, departure time modes (allowing cabin air to be heated or cooled while the car is still plugged in), value charge mode, charge voltage selection, etc. Plus, my SE has many luxury features I didn't expect on a non-Titanium model.

[Paul Creed III]

Battery cooling in hot weather is certainly an issue.

 

I arrived at a county fair with around ~25% charge left on the HVB after driving about 70 miles on the freeway (using EVLater) and a mile or two in Automatic (and thus mostly via HVB for slow-moving traffic) mode. Cabin temp was set to 71 with the AC running until I parked at the fair. 

 

The car sat in the lot for ~6 hours and, upon my return, the HVB was down to about 10% charge. Ambient air when I arrived at the fair was about 80 and was almost 90 by the time I left. 

 

Clearly, the HVB was hot and required significant cooling after the drive and sitting in the hot sun until its temperature dropped. 

 

I've not yet seen any measurable battery life issues. 

[jsamp]

...

 

The shame of it is virtually everything else on the car is well engineered, such as; a Heat Pump to provide either AC and heated cabin air, departure time modes (allowing cabin air to be heated or cooled while the car is still plugged in), value charge mode, charge voltage selection, etc. Plus, my SE has many luxury features I didn't expect on a non-Titanium model.

 

Where did you get that the Energi has a heat pump?  Nowhere have I heard that and in fact everyone complains that the heater is a 5kW resistance heater that sucks a lot of electrons from your HVB so you have less to use for driving, especially in the winter.  The HVAC is all electric, so it can run when in EV mode, but it is not a heat pump as far as I know.

 

Prius has a heat pump, which contributes to their high overall efficiency numbers.

[murphy]

The Energi does not have a heat pump.  It has a 5 kW resistance heater.

[kjhansen]

Murphy and Jsamp;

 

Well, I must admit; I "jumped to the conclusion" that it has a heat pump. This jump was for the following two reasons;

 

1) I can only see the electric (apparently only AC) pump with the orange HV wires going to it. I could not find where the typical canister type of resistance heater is located. (I know what they look like because my e-Golf has one). Given how tightly packed everything is under the hood of the Fusion I can see how I could miss it. It may even be located inside the cabin for that matter.

 

2) When the cabin heater has been on I haven't noticed a big drop in EV range. On the other hand we usually use the seat heat (another really nice and unexpected feature). Again, the EV range doesn't seem to be affected much by these.  

 

Have either of you fellows been able to locate where the hot battery cooling air exits the trunk?? I think not. Do you agree that is a STUPID design? Any suggestions on how to fix that? Do you see anything wrong with cutting a hole in the back or the bottom of the trunk past where the muffler is so the hot air can actually get out of the trunk? A duct extension could be added to the existing one on the left side. I was thinking of making it with a 3-D printer. If a CAD drawing can be made of it there are online shops that will print it and ship it to you. Also, a rubber flapper can be added outside the car body to keep weather from entering the duct.

[kjhansen]

Paul,

I have never noticed the battery cooling fan(s) running for more than just a few minutes after the car has been shut off.

 

What I have noticed is the following...

When driving at normal freeway speeds (75 MPH!) I typically drive with "EV Later" selected because there will always be a slow down on the freeway or city driving which will make much better use of EV on a given trip. During the drive if the ambient temperature gets much above 95F say for an hour or more, the battery will be "soaked" at that temperature. Even though the battery gauge indicates plenty of battery left the car will not run in EV mode. This is presumably because the battery is too hot and EV drive mode is inhibited and thus defaults to ICE mode.

 

An even worse example of this is if you charge the car when it is hot outside and then try to drive it in EV mode, forget it! The battery gets so hot because all the cooling air is trapped in the trunk and the hot outside air compounds the problem. Again; the car will refuse to drive in EV mode in these circumstances.

 

What really bugs me is charging never gets throttled even in hot temperatures, which would help extend the life of the battery. Also, the car has the capability to run the cabin AC when plugged in (that's what departure mode is for). So, using software, the cabin AC could be turned on to cool the battery during charging. The battery cooling intake is on the deck behind the rear seats. Needless to say, I'm really disappointed with the battery cooling on this car.

[murphy]

Take the foam insert out of your trunk and tell me what you see in the center of the depression that is the spare tire area for the gas car.

 

The panel that surrounds the trunk latch must be removed to get the foam out.

[kjhansen]

Murphy; here are two photos of whats under the foam insert, with appropriate labels.

 

 

[jasper7821]

2018

96,000 miles

3.4 kwh to hybrid mode

3.8 kwh to empty

about 12 miles EV