Basic charging question

[mike3119]

Hello,

 

 I am the proud owner of a 2016 Fusion Energi titanium and I wanted to get some expert opinions on a question.  I often work from home and don't need to drive every day.  I typically leave the Fusion plugged into a level 1 charger from the time I return home until the time of my next trip, there could however be several days where the car will sit fully charged plugged in.  My question should I unplug the Fusion after it reaches a full charge, or is it OK to leave the car plugged in for several days in between usage. 

 

  I thank you in advance for your thoughts.

 

Mike M

 

 

[murphy]

You can leave it plugged in.  The "charger" isn't really a charger, it is a big AC contactor (relay).  Once charging is complete the car tells the "charger" to disconnect it from the wall power.  The actual charger is built into the car.

 

I disconnect mine because I have more than one car to charge.

 

If you want to do pre-coniditioning in the winter time you will need a level 2 charger.  The maximum power from a 120 volt outlet is not enough to warm the car when it is really cold outside.

Edited November 9, 2015 at 01:52 PM by murphy

[Hybridbear]

Hello,

 

 I am the proud owner of a 2016 Fusion Energi titanium and I wanted to get some expert opinions on a question.  I often work from home and don't need to drive every day.  I typically leave the Fusion plugged into a level 1 charger from the time I return home until the time of my next trip, there could however be several days where the car will sit fully charged plugged in.  My question should I unplug the Fusion after it reaches a full charge, or is it OK to leave the car plugged in for several days in between usage. 

 

  I thank you in advance for your thoughts.

 

Mike M

You may want to consider setting up a Value Charge profile to delay charging. It is generally accepted as being better for the HVB to charge when cooler & to spend as little time at a full charge as possible. The HVB will naturally cool to the ambient temp while parked over time.

[lonzo71]

You may want to consider setting up a Value Charge profile to delay charging. It is generally accepted as being better for the HVB to charge when cooler & to spend as little time at a full charge as possible. The HVB will naturally cool to the ambient temp while parked over time.

While I'm not arguing the logic to that, but really, how many years would it take to show "damage" from not doing it? I'm on a level 2 charger and I charge whenever because it only takes 2 hours and my power co doesnt give me anything for doing it after hours.

[stevedebi]

You may want to consider setting up a Value Charge profile to delay charging. It is generally accepted as being better for the HVB to charge when cooler & to spend as little time at a full charge as possible. The HVB will naturally cool to the ambient temp while parked over time.

On my C-Max, I use value charge, but on a hot day the battery fans will come on to cool it down as soon as I plug it into the wall in the evening. The charge happens after midnight. I prefer this because I think it is better for the battery, even if it does draw some power.

 

L1 charger here.

[rbort]

Leave it unplugged.  In fact, when you get home wait several hours if the temp is hot before charging it or if you don't need it charged for the next morning plug it in the next morning and charge it to 60% and unplug it.  Let it sit there for the several days until you need it again, and then plug it in the morning of needing it to go from 60 to 100% before you leave, or maybe just to 80% if you don't need 100%.

 

Best to leave the battery sitting at storage charge levels (about 60%) than plugged in and at 100% charge all the time.  Though minimal, the "charger" plugged in all the time will still draw something from the wall and use some kwh over time.

 

To answer Lonzo's question, it will take about 2 years for you to realize the difference between charging the car to 100% all the time and doing some battery battery management, i.e. letting it cool as Steve said and not leaving it sit at 100% all the time.

 

-=>Raja.

Edited December 10, 2015 at 05:59 AM by rbort

[ebduda]

I'm a new owner also and yesterday I got home and plugged it in and it sounded like a fan was running in the trunk.  From the posts above the fans are activated to cool the battery? Should I wait to plug it in and if so about how long.  If I plug it in when I get home from work it is usually fully charged when I go to bed and at that time I unplug it.  

 

Would it be better to start charging when I go to bed at night and then just disconnect when I go to work?

[Russael]

You can plug in and charge at any time.  The car has thermal management (fans, temp sensors, etc) and if it detects a fault, such as temperature getting too high, it'll slow down or stop charging until the pack cools.  There is a fan for the charging system and another fan for the pack itself.  I've personally only seen the charging fan run except once.  I heard a rather noisy motor in the back that changed the vent door from the inside vents to outside after parking and plugging in.

 

Those who charge at night, etc, are being extra careful.  I'm fine with leaving the car to manage itself without expending any additional effort.

[stevedebi]

I'm a new owner also and yesterday I got home and plugged it in and it sounded like a fan was running in the trunk.  From the posts above the fans are activated to cool the battery? Should I wait to plug it in and if so about how long.  If I plug it in when I get home from work it is usually fully charged when I go to bed and at that time I unplug it.  

 

Would it be better to start charging when I go to bed at night and then just disconnect when I go to work?

I prefer to charge between midnight and dawn. It is cooler at that time, and charging raises the battery temperature. I get home, plug it in, and let the fans cool the battery, then it charges at the right time. I'm planning on my battery lasting a long time, and I think it best to operate this way. But I'm an 'ole hybrid owner, so I tend to be cautious.

 

But what others have said is correct, charge whenever you want. There are no cautions about it in the owner manual so far as I know.

[Hybridbear]

+1 on what stevedebi said. Another benefit of delaying charging is that your HVB is as warm as possible on winter mornings when you leave. This will improve HVB efficiency & range.

 

You can set up a Value Charge profile in MFM via a web browser. Then you can come home & plug in immediately & forget about it. The car will begin to charge at the time you specify with the profile settings.

 

You can then also use Go Times to precondition the car in the morning. This also helps your range by limiting HVAC needs while driving.

Edited November 25, 2015 at 12:23 AM by Hybridbear

[stevedebi]

...

 

You can then also use Go Times to precondition the car in the morning. This also helps your range by limiting HVAC needs while driving.

Just an added note to HB comments. Preconditioning is only optimum if you have a L2 charger (240v). I found when I bought my car that the L1 is simply not up to the task. You can do it with an L1, but it doesn't work nearly as well, in my experience.

 

If you really like the car, you might consider investing in an L2 charger, especially if your garage already has 240v (a lot do, for a dryer connection).

[dperreno]

What stevedebi said - having an L2 charger makes a world of difference for me.  I have an 18 mile commute each way and free L2 charging at work (I work for Ford!), so by the time I get home after work, I am out of charge.  With my L2 charger, I can plug in at 6pm and by 7pm I have 8-9 miles of range available to go to the grocery store, run errands, etc.  Same thing on the weekend.  As to pampering the battery with late night charging times, I don't bother.  I don't get a discount to charge after hours and I figure that Ford has designed in enough safeguards to maximize the battery life, seeing as they warrant it for 8 years / 100,000 miles.  I also live in Michigan, so my car doesn't regularly see the kind of high temperatures that are common in the south and west.

[openair]

I don't get a discount to charge after hours and I figure that Ford has designed in enough safeguards to maximize the battery life, seeing as they warrant it for 8 years / 100,000 miles. I also live in Michigan, so my car doesn't regularly see the kind of high temperatures that are common in the south and west.

While there is a warranty, it has no specifics such as how much charge the battery will hold. As long as the battery functions and holds a charge it's good as far as Ford is concerned. Some people have reported a 25-30% drop in capacity and ev range after about two years of 2 level 2 charges per work day.

[dperreno]

As long as the battery functions and holds a charge it's good as far as Ford is concerned.

 

Not exactly.  If the battery has any dead cells, then those cells (or the entire battery) will be replaced.  Loss of capacity over time (or more accurately vs. # of charging cycles) is a known phenomenon and no, it isn't covered.  I couldn't find any information on what would constitute a "normal" amount of degradation for Li-Ion battery packs, but the DOE did test a 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid NiMH battery and found a degradation of only 8% over 160,000 miles of on-road fleet testing. http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/hev/batteryfusion4757.pdf Now I will grant you that this is an apples and oranges comparison since the test was of a NiMH battery in a hybrid-only vehicle vs. our Li-Ion battery in a plug-in electric hybrid, but to the best of my knowledge Li-Ion batteries are no worse than NiMH when it comes to capacity loss vs. cycles.  I spent quite a bit of time looking for comparative data, but I couldn't find any - the best I could do was to find qualitative comparisons which described both NiMH and Li-ion to have "High" lifetimes vs. other battery chemistries.  I also found a document from Johnson Controls stating that they design their battery packs with an expected 10 year lifetime (which correlates to more like a 15-20 design requirement).  The Fusion and C-Max Energi vehicles use this JCI battery pack. http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/content/us/en/products/power-solutions/products/lithium-ion/plugin-hybrid-electric.html

 

 

Some people have reported a 25-30% drop in capacity and ev range after about two years of 2 level 2 charges per work day.

 

That is indeed a very large drop.  I would like to see the results of a capacity test on their batteries to verify the loss.  That would represent around 1,000 charge cycles, or around 20,000 EV miles (max), and I know that I would consider that to be completely unacceptable.  If it were 25-30% loss after 100k miles?  Still not good, but I probably would not be that upset about it.  8% after 160k miles?  Totally fine.

 

My car has just shy of 20,000 miles on it (I have no idea how many EV as I bought it used) and I have been getting 19 - 23 miles of range in Michigan in November (and a little over half of my 18 mile commute is at 70mph).  A complete charge from zero miles runs around 6.5kwh input (before losses), which is in line with the published capacity.

 

At the end of the day, I guess we are all going to have to just wait and see both how the batteries perform, and how Ford handles their warranty claims - such is the fate of the early adopter.

[rbort]

Ebduda:

 

 

 

Would it be better to start charging when I go to bed at night and then just disconnect when I go to work?

 

Yes that would be better to plug it in right before going to bed (if you have no more need for the car when you get home from work) than right when you get home.  At least that way the battery will get some cooldown time for several hours and spend less time dwelling at 100% waiting for you to use it.  

 

The only exception to that in my opinion is that if you drain the battery completely (use up the hybrid also), then I would plug it in for a few minutes to let the battery get back off the rock bottom charge level to anywhere in the single digit % levels and then unplug it and leave it until later at night before plugging in to charge back to full.

 

-=>Raja.

[lonzo71]

 

Would it be better to start charging when I go to bed at night and then just disconnect when I go to work?

I'd keep it plugged in all the time, it doesnt hurt anything and most systems dont use enough electric that it counts $.  If you have time rated service with your power co, then it would make sense to charge it when cheaper. But for anything else,  Leave it plugged in.