Poll: Ambient temps EV later and EV now locked out?

[openair]

Many of us have experienced EV now and EV later becoming locked out either at very hot ambient temperatures or very cold ambient temperatures.  When this occurs the vehicle drives in auto with the HVB supplying all power.  You cannot choose to engage the ICE.  I would like to gather some information about how common this is experienced at different temperatures. 

 

Edit: Clarity.  I am not asking about instances where only ev now becomes locked out or the ice comes on.  I am asking about instances where both ev now and ev later become locked out and you cannot choose to engage the ice even if you want to.

 

Oops: meant to create this in batteries, charging general discussion but mistakenly created it here instead.  Could a mod move it somewhere more appropriate please?

Edited November 8, 2015 at 03:39 PM by openair

[murphy]

It has been moved.  There is an important entry missing from the poll.  I have never encountered the problem so none of the selections are correct for me.

[openair]

Good point murphy.  Added two more choices.

[jeff_h]

OK I voted - only time I can recall getting this was hot weather that I think was over 90 degrees...

[lonzo71]

I chose the 80+ and 90+, and both times, it was during heavy stop and go, aka traffic ;) so who knows

Edited November 3, 2015 at 02:15 PM by lonzo71

[TX NRG]

I've never experienced this where the HVB was forced on. In very hot weather and high battery usage, sometimes after charging, the vehicle switches to auto with the engine supplying all power, not the HVB. It displays the "Engine on due to system performance" message and the blue EV icon in the left screen turns yellow.

[Doug0716]

I've never experienced this where the HVB was forced on. In very hot weather and high battery usage, sometimes after charging, the vehicle switches to auto with the engine supplying all power, not the HVB. It displays the "Engine on due to system performance" message and the blue EV icon in the left screen turns yellow.

That's what this is asking about, at what temps has your vehicle forced the ice and displayed the "Engine on due to system performance" message?

 

I've experienced this at 80+F, which was a bit surprising as I arrived home with a few miles of battery that I had saved in the morning to use on the drive home and the system couldn't use it.  Now I just let it use what it wants in the morning on mid-summer days. My drive involves a lot of freeway (~70mph) with a couple miles of city driving on each end (total about 14 mi one way) and it has locked me out while on and after coming off the freeway so it's not just stop and go traffic.  Now, mid summer months, I just use whatever battery I can on the way to work and hope it uses the rest of it on the way home before locking out.

[openair]

No Doug. Per the op: "When this occurs the vehicle drives in auto with the HVB supplying all power. You cannot choose to engage the ICE." I am asking about people who experience BOTH ev later and ev now becoming locked out. With white X's over both options. Not situations where only ev now becomes locked out. Not situations where the ice is forced on. Situations where you're prevented from engaging the ice even if you wanted to.

 

This occurs any time the vehicle is driven for more than two miles at temps at or below -13f(-25c). At temps slightly above this, the vehicle drives as you describe, with only ev now locked out.

Edited November 8, 2015 at 03:28 PM by openair

[bdginmo]

I had this happen for the first time this morning. The temperature was in the upper 30's. I pulled over and turned off/on the car and everything went back to normal. Do we have any theories as to why this is happening?

[openair]

It occurs near 30C because the battery is too hot. It likely occurs at -25C because the battery is too cold. It has only ever occurred for me near 0C (30sF) in combo with an orange wrench. I have never seen occurr near 0c without the orange wrench. Idk why you're seeing it at those temps. Are you sure you had both ev now and ev later locked? Others have made that mistake here. It would be normal for ev now to be browned out at those temps.

Edited December 3, 2015 at 03:12 PM by openair

[FordService]

Hi guys!

 

Have you had a chance to visit your dealer to get this looked at? The best way for data to get to the engineers is when owners have their symptoms documented and diagnosed by dealers. Just let me know, and I'll see how to assist.

 

Meagan

[openair]

When I tell a dealerships ev now and ev later are locked out at -25C they say it's likely intended and don't do anything further.

[murphy]

When I tell a dealerships ev now and ev later are locked out at -25C they say it's likely intended and don't do anything further.

In my experience the dealer doesn't know anything about the car and doesn't want to know anything about the car.

[openair]

In my experience the dealer doesn't know anything about the car and doesn't want to know anything about the car.

Right. So if Meagan wants us to take this up with a dealership she'll have to educate them for us. But first she should probably find out if it's actually a concern or an intended part of the battery management system and at what ambient temps it is intended.

[bdginmo]

It occurs near 30C because the battery is too hot. It likely occurs at -25C because the battery is too cold. It has only ever occurred for me near 0C (30sF) in combo with an orange wrench. I have never seen occurr near 0c without the orange wrench. Idk why you're seeing it at those temps. Are you sure you had both ev now and ev later locked? Others have made that mistake here. It would be normal for ev now to be browned out at those temps.

 

In my case (yesterday) it was probably 3C/37F. And yes, EV Now and EV Later were definitely both locked out. Both icons had X's in them and the EV button would not cycle at all. The car remained in EV Auto with no way for me to switch it. I probably had about 80% SoC in the HVB. The ICE was not running.

 

Another thing I forgot to mention...The heater stopped working prior to the problem. I had the HVAC on auto with the temperature control set to 70F. The car warmed nicely and reached a comfortable temperature. After that it started getting colder and colder. I put my hand down by the foot vents and it was blowing really cold air at a high fan speed. I check the HVAC power usage on the dash and it said 0 kW. I increased the temperature to 74F and that caused the fan speed to increase, but it was still blowing really cold air. I thought this was odd so in an attempt to get the car to warm up again I thought I'd switch to EV Later and get the ICE to warm things up. That's when I noticed that EV Now and EV Later were both locked out. I pulled over and power cycled the car and everything was back to normal.

Edited December 3, 2015 at 09:10 PM by bdginmo

[FordService]

Right. So if Meagan wants us to take this up with a dealership she'll have to educate them for us. But first she should probably find out if it's actually a concern or an intended part of the battery management system and at what ambient temps it is intended.

 

I'm not a trained technician, which is why I advise you all to head to your dealers to have concerns evaluated and diagnosed. I can ask questions to parts Subject Matter Experts we have on hand, but some things they will not be able to answer for me to relay to you all, as they are not hands on with your vehicles.

 

Meagan

[openair]

I'm not a trained technician, which is why I advise you all to head to your dealers to have concerns evaluated and diagnosed. I can ask questions to parts Subject Matter Experts we have on hand, but some things they will not be able to answer for me to relay to you all, as they are not hands on with your vehicles.

 

Meagan

So when the dealership shrugs their shoulders and says it's probably intended (not really an answer) and doesn't pursue it any further what do you suggest?  Usually a manufacturer representative would recommend service if they had reason to believe it was a serviceable concern.  Do you have reason to believe this is a serviceable concern?

[FordService]

So when the dealership shrugs their shoulders and says it's probably intended (not really an answer) and doesn't pursue it any further what do you suggest?  Usually a manufacturer representative would recommend service if they had reason to believe it was a serviceable concern.  Do you have reason to believe this is a serviceable concern?

 

As mentioned, being that I'm not a technician, I'm unable to advise dealers or customers on repair processes or attempt diagnoses. In the event a customer is escalated to their customer service manager, the CSM works with the dealer for a resolution. They can check to make sure the dealer has attempted all lines of assistance, from checking TSB's to calling the hotline, however CSMs are also not technicians. I would recommend heading to another dealer for a second opinion.

 

Meagan

[openair]

I've asked four dealerships this question and gotten the same non answer each time.

[stevedebi]

So when the dealership shrugs their shoulders and says it's probably intended (not really an answer) and doesn't pursue it any further what do you suggest?  Usually a manufacturer representative would recommend service if they had reason to believe it was a serviceable concern.  Do you have reason to believe this is a serviceable concern?

Sometimes you have to get to the dealer when the problem is occurring. For some reason the car will sometimes throw codes that are not stored. If you could demonstrate the blowing cold air to them, they could hook up the computer and analyze.

[openair]

Sometimes you have to get to the dealer when the problem is occurring. For some reason the car will sometimes throw codes that are not stored. If you could demonstrate the blowing cold air to them, they could hook up the computer and analyze.

How do you suggest I get the vehicle to a dealership that is further away than the battery range to demonstrate ev later and ev now being locked out? The vehicle drives in auto depleting the battery first so there will be no ev range remaining with which to demonstrate.

[lonzo71]

Take it to a dealer that you can charge at? So when you get there, it should be at 0%, drained. Then just charge it long enough to get 1-2%...They dont need it to be full, just enough to switch back and forth. Most will have a level 2 charger, but I'm sure they have an outlet

Edited December 4, 2015 at 07:44 PM by lonzo71

[openair]

When you plug it in the vehicle drops out of ready to drive. After unplugging it, it will need to be power cycled to become ready to drive and allow switching between ev now and ev later. Ev now and ev later being locked out is always cleared by one power cycle.

 

The ambient temps also don't stay at -25c for very long. Once the sun comes out and the dealership is open it has usually warmed up above that.

Edited December 4, 2015 at 08:39 PM by openair

[stevedebi]

How do you suggest I get the vehicle to a dealership that is further away than the battery range to demonstrate ev later and ev now being locked out? The vehicle drives in auto depleting the battery first so there will be no ev range remaining with which to demonstrate.

So long as you don't power down the vehicle, any codes will still be present. Assuming any codes are being thrown. No, I'd suggest a photo for the dealer in that case - but also going directly there. I had a few problems in my Escape Hybrid that were this way; the dealer could not find them unless I got over there without powering off. Fortunately I live pretty near one of the largest dealers in the US, with a good hybrid department.

 

But I was directly replying to the person who had the lack of hot air blowing out. That problem would probably still be there.

Edited December 4, 2015 at 08:48 PM by stevedebi

[openair]

But I was directly replying to the person who had the lack of hot air blowing out. That problem would probably still be there.

Except you quoted me replying to Meagan and Meagan said "you guys" referring to more than the one person who mentioned a different off topic issue.

 

Assuming there are any error codes. If we can get back on topic, there likely will be no error codes, as there are no warning lights and it is likely intended part of the battery management system. The issue is that we cannot get a straight answer to this without showing a dealer symptoms.

 

In order to show symptoms I will have to not shut down the vehicle between 7am and 9am when the dealerships opens. Hope they aren't too busy to look at it that day. Hope they'll let me charge it and hope the symptoms still occur after starting it again after charging it. That is a lot to put your customer through just to turn around and tell them it is intended! Never mind the loss of brand faith when the manufacturer can't even tell you how it's supposed to behave.

Edited December 4, 2015 at 09:05 PM by openair