Powertrain fault - remote starting

[Hybridbear]

Pics show the tiny amount of wet snow (less of and more wet than last pics) that triggers these powertrain faults.

It seems pretty conclusive that it's a moisture issue.

[openair]

It seems pretty conclusive that it's a moisture issue.

Except it never does it in the rain. Only does it in combo with specific temps.

[openair]

Twice to the dealership after the orange wrench had appeared multiple times before each visit. No error codes. The dealer is now saying they will not look at it again unless the orange wrench stays on. Implying they're not interested in trying to reproduce the issue. Going to confirm this and get them to include that in some paper work and go forward with camvap

 

They will not look at, even during the weather unless the orange wrench stays on.

Edited November 19, 2015 at 05:30 PM by openair

[openair]

Just got back from picking up the vehicle at the dealership. Got threatened with another diagnostic fee for mentioning the fact that the enable engine prompt repeatedly came up and advanced to the 'engine enabled message' after pressing ok while the vehicle was parked with the climate controls completely off. The engine did not actually run despite this prompt and message appearing 4 or 5 times inside a minute. I asked for a manager, who eventually asked the owner, who waived the fee and is now "involved." Whatever that means. The service lady also printed out and highlighted the pages of the manual describing the enable engine message appearing for performance during ev now and climate control demand. After I had specifically told her the vehicle was parked, with climate off. This is the dealership ford recommended me after asking for one who might have more experience with these vehicles.

 

Edit: drove to work in ev now this morning, at the same 1C, without the partial frozen precipitation with the heated seats on without experiencing the enable engine prompt once. There is something about the combo of this weather and the partially frozen precipitation that is causing this behaviour.

Edited November 20, 2015 at 12:33 PM by openair

[openair]

Again. 1c. It was snowing slightly but not accumulating. It would leave drops of water on the vehicle. After one hour of this remote started with the vehicle plugged in without the orange wrench. 5 hours later, after it had stopped snowing for about 4 hours, remote started again. Unplugged it this time and orange wrench with ev now and ev later locked out again.

 

Drove 20-25km, vehicle sat plugged in for about 45 minutes. Remote started. Unplugged, orange wrench again with no additional precipitation and most of the previous moisture blown off the exterior of the vehicle from the previous 20-25km drive.

Edited November 22, 2015 at 12:46 AM by openair

[openair]

Seem orange wrenches that do not record any codes, that only have a code available while the orange wrench remains and the orange wrench disappearing after a restart or two, even for issues such as a burning or jerking transmission is par for the course for ford. Here is a link to a thread from a Ford Flex forum with people experience similar intermittent orange wrenches.

http://www.fordflex.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7604

Meaning it is a known issue with Ford that certain orange wrenches, even for serious issues, do not record the error codes they generate. That the vehicle will have to be brought in immediately for same day service when an orange wrench appears is a known factor of servicing some Ford vehicles. Yet no dealership has even suggested getting the vehicle in the same day when i tell them I've intermittent orange wrenches. They all want to book appointments 3 days to a week out and are too busy to see it or do not have techs on hand to see it that day. They also will not keep it overnight long enough to have the orange wrench appear for themselves.

After telling 7 or 8 different dealerships this will be going to camvap if they don't do something more than nothing to fix this, one non hybrid electric certified dealership is the only one who has agreed to look at it same day the next time the orange wrench appears.

The fact that ford designs vehicles that do not record the error codes they generate and that dealerships have either no idea how to handle or refuse to make allowance for these situations is appalling.

That thread also has a couple people mentioning external data loggers dealerships can provide to loan users to leave plugged in to record these codes as they happen. I have never been offered such a device.

 

Edit: This morning it was -2C inside the garage, and -7C outside.  Vehicle sat for ~5 hours as ambient warmed up to 0C and began snowing.  Other than the short 7km all ev drive to work the vehicle had been parked for 30+hours.  It's guts were below 0.   It snowed for awhile, some very minor accumulation.  Remote started without the powertrain fault in somewhat similar conditions to when it did powertrain fault Saturday.  Either it did not because, like Saturday morning, the new snow and cooler than ambient moisture had not yet had time to sink in (Saturday afternoon).  Or because the guts of the vehicle were already below 0C, were already below ambient, from the -7C the night before so the sub zero moisture and temperature differential had little to no affect on it. 

Edited November 23, 2015 at 11:20 PM by openair

[openair]

Again leaving work today. Two big differences though. It was 8C and raining. Nothing partially frozen. It also did not lock out ev later and ev now.

 

Managed to get her into the non hybrid electric dealership who had agreed to look at it same day next time it occurred before they closed. Gave the p01eb code with the orange wrench still up. Seems likely than that it is a design flaw similar to the block heater issue others had experienced. One dealership around April 2015 said they updated the pcm. Another around August said they did a full update. The latest is telling me he'll get permission to replace the heater solenoid before he'll get permission to update the pcm. If my pcm isn't up to date, Ford, three dealerships and I will have wasted so so many hours because they didn't spend 15 minutes to an hour to update the pcm...

Edited December 1, 2015 at 11:34 PM by openair

[FordServiceCA]

Again leaving work today. Two big differences though. It was 8C and raining. Nothing partially frozen. It also did not lock out ev later and ev now.

 

Managed to get her into the non hybrid electric dealership who had agreed to look at it same day next time it occurred before they closed. Gave the p01eb code with the orange wrench still up. Seems likely than that it is a design flaw similar to the block heater issue others had experienced. One dealership around April 2015 said they updated the pcm. Another around August said they did a full update. The latest is telling me he'll get permission to replace the heater solenoid before he'll get permission to update the pcm. If my pcm isn't up to date, Ford, three dealerships and I will have wasted so so many hours because they didn't spend 15 minutes to an hour to update the pcm...

 

I've reviewed this thread as well as another thread of yours discussing the orange wrench you're seeing. I'd like to get this escalated to your regional customer service manager, who will be able to explore additional avenues of assistance in conjunction with your servicing dealership. Please send a private message my way with your full name, VIN, servicing dealer, updated odometer reading, and your best daytime contact number. I'll get the ball rolling. 

 

Brittany

Ford Service CA

[openair]

I'll send that over again but I've already been told by my regional customer service manager there is nothing they can do. It's all on the dealership.

Edited December 2, 2015 at 10:46 PM by openair

[seadiel]

enable engine prompt repeatedly came up and advanced to the 'engine enabled message' after pressing ok while the vehicle was parked with the climate controls completely off. The engine did not actually run despite this prompt and message appearing 4 or 5 times inside a minute. I asked for a manager, who eventually asked the owner, who waived the fee and is now "involved." Whatever that means. The service lady also printed out and highlighted the pages of the manual describing the enable engine message appearing for performance during ev now and climate control demand.

 

I have a 2013 and that's how mine works. Go into EV Now get a pop up "Enable Engine" everytime If I am driving in ev now and click the OK button the engine will turn on if I am parked and clicked the button nothing happens besides it saying "engine enabled".

 

[openair]

They're now saying they're replacing the cabin heater and that it doesn't work at all.  Which is not true.  It's worked all week.  And does not correlate at all with the issue only occur in the wet weather and not the extreme cold.

[Hybridbear]

They're now saying they're replacing the cabin heater and that it doesn't work at all.  Which is not true.  It's worked all week.  And does not correlate at all with the issue only occur in the wet weather and not the extreme cold.

Hopefully they won't break anything else while doing that work.

[openair]

Hybridbear, It doesn't look like they broke anything else ;)

 

It does seem there was something wrong with my electrical heater. They said it didn't work at all but it did seem to work at least some during remote starts where the ice hadn't run or warming the vehicle as little as can be expected using level 1 preconditioning. But when I picked her up there was warm air coming out of the vents sooner and I could now see demand from the climate controls on the engage display. Where as prior to them replacing the heater it only showed this demand on the 5kw climate bar on the left display and did not show any on the engage display unless the vehicle was in motion.

 

It also seems likely that the reason I would only get an orange wrench near freezing but not at cooler temps is that at cooler temps the ice would run and provide heat making up for the reduce heat from my electric heater

Edited December 8, 2015 at 12:57 AM by openair

[openair]

I'm now, sometimes, getting a smell of burning plastic when the heater is drawing 5k. Twice in the two weeks since they replaced the heater.

 

The first time was driving down a country road. Passed it off as some weird late season manure or something. Second time was Christmas eve after a remote start leaving the mother in laws.

 

Also now getting ev now browned out with the engine enabled message without the ice actually running with the vehicle in motion.

Edited December 26, 2015 at 08:13 PM by openair

[FordServiceCA]

I'm now, sometimes, getting a smell of burning plastic when the heater is drawing 5k. Twice in the two weeks since they replaced the heater.

 

The first time was driving down a country road. Passed it off as some weird late season manure or something. Second time was Christmas eve after a remote start leaving the mother in laws.

 

Also now getting ev now browned out with the engine enabled message without the ice actually running with the vehicle in motion.

Hi openair,

 

Have you brought it back to the dealer to get it looked at? 

 

Mathieu

[openair]

Hi openair,

 

Have you brought it back to the dealer to get it looked at?

 

Mathieu

Nope. Both times this occurred it was late at night when the dealerships were not open. One was even on a holiday. I've been unable to reproduce it on demand. So I've even less to show the dealerships. I've also been told not to return unless the orange wrench stays on. So by the direct request of one dealership and the precedent set by all dealerships I've contacted so far taking it in again now, would be a complete waste of time.

[openair]

Again my car smells like someone took a shit inside after using the remote start. It was raining and 7C. Similar conditions to the orange wrench that occurred when I was actually able to get it into the dealership.

 

But it hasn't thrown a orange wrench since they replaced the heater, the smells seems to only occur when it is remote started at warm enough temps the remote start does not run the ice and I have been unable to reproduce it on demand without cooperation of the weather and the vehicle having been parked for hours in this weather before hand. The smell also dissipates within 10 to 15 minutes and the closest dealership is 20+ minutes away.

 

So I have nothing to show the dealerships. They wouldn't explore the cause of the orange wrench until they saw the Dtc for themselves. They wouldn't keep it long enough to reproduce the orange wrench themselves and now I've nothing but an occasional shit smell. I guess I'm stuck with a car that occasionally produces smells like it just shat itself.

 

I guess I'll have to call some more private mechanics until I find one who will take my money to look at it.

Edited January 9, 2016 at 05:24 PM by openair

[openair]

Picked my vehicle up from the dealership last night. They replaced the driver's side wiper motor finally. Couldn't reproduce the smell and said the recirculation issue I created a new thread for was normal.

 

45 minutes after leaving the dealership the the service engine light came on. It remained on for three power cycles and disappeared afterwards. Just like the powertrain fault. The ambient temp was also near freezing and they had just washed the vehicle. Or conditions just like the weather that caused the powertrain faults and the worst smell. The smell also occurred again later that night after leaving a heated parking garage. The are no Dtcs listed in Etm.

 

I've now had the hood latch, a purge valve related to the emission control system, the heater and a wiper motor all replaced. And I'm still getting smells and warning lights. At least three of those four were likely bad from the manufacturer and had been bad up to 17 months from time of purchase or up to 12 months from the first time the issue was reported to Ford. The worst smell only started after Ford replaced the heater.

 

The dealership is going to try to reproduce the service engine light by washing the car in similar weather and or storage situation that occurred the last time. Failing that I'm again stuck attempting to get the vehicle in while these highly weather dependant issues are currently occurring. The smell dissipates within 10 to 15 minutes and the closest dealership is 20 minutes away. That will be nearly impossible.

Edited January 23, 2016 at 11:50 PM by openair

[Hybridbear]

45 minutes after leaving the dealership the the service engine light came on. It remained on for three power cycles and disappeared afterwards. Just like the powertrain fault.

Are you able to read the codes with FORScan? That might help you.

[openair]

There were no Dtcs in Etm suggesting, like the powertrain fault, the error will only be present the first once or twice the vehicle is started with the light on and I don't have a scanner as I don't want to give Ford anymore scapegoats as we discussed earlier in this thread. Also no dealership is interested in what I say the Dtcs are. They're only interested in seeing them themselves. So I'm not sure how it would help me at all. Other to than pay Ford the diagnostic time to check everything related to that code in the hopes they find something wrong and then the warranty would kick in.

[openair]

Service engine light leaving work at 4:45. The dealer who got a tech to stay past their usual closing time to pull the powertrain fault code again had the tech stay late to pull this code too. P0453. Evap sensor. Tech thinks the sensor itself is faulty and needs replacing.

[openair]

They replaced that sensor back in Feb. Had the service engine light come on again yesterday morning. 2 months after replacing the sensor. Same error code as last time. They inspected some wiring and connectors this time and found a connector who's pin was damaged and not holding correctly. They're replacing the pin.

 

The 25% to 50% quadrant of the charging port led ring had also been intermittently flashing and then dead so they're ordering a replacement ring to install next week as well.

Edited April 15, 2016 at 07:55 PM by openair

[openair]

Well the smells are mostly gone but today my orange wrench returned in the exact same weather as previously and disappeared after power cycling the vehicle as previously. The electric heater also seemed to be getting weaker in advance of this. I can only imagine I'm in for another months long battle to get Ford just to accept there is something wrong and I can only hope they'll look for the real problem this time rather than just throw another heater at it.