Decreased EV Range

[dnorris78]

I have a 2013 FFE with 38k miles on it.  I purchased it new.  My EV Range is going down down down.  I used to get 21 now I am getting 16 to 17 miles tops.  My driving habits haven't changed and I am the only one that drives the car.  Has anyone experienced this issue over time? 

[larryh]

The HVB is expected to degrade with time.  I have 28000 miles.  The capacity has degraded by about 5%. 

[jeff_h]

The HVB is expected to degrade with time.  I have 28000 miles.  The capacity has degraded by about 5%. 

 

One of mine has 64k and the other 41k, I would say they have each degraded about 10% but I think it goes with the territory for this type of battery, doesn't it?

[Russael]

I've lost about 2 miles of range on mine, but I only have 11k on it.

[flyingcheesehead]

I'm almost a year and 12,000 miles in, I've noticed mine going down slightly, but there are two other explanations for it:

 

1) I'm maybe a little less careful with my driving because I can plug in both at home and at work now.

 

More likely, though:

 

2) Temperatures are cooling down.

 

It's that time of year again, folks. IIRC the best I saw last winter was 18 miles (with the heat off, 13 with it on), whereas I normally saw 25 miles this summer when the temp was at least 70. 

[TX NRG]

My 2013 has over 29,000 miles. Its electric range is down about 23%. When new I would get around 5.6 - 5.8 kWh out of a full charge. Now I only get 4.3 - 4.4 kWh. :(

Edited October 25, 2015 at 08:03 AM by TX NRG

[Rexracer]

2 years, 20k miles, I have not noticed any change in battery performance. I notice a BIG shift when it starts cooling off, cooler tempuratures for the battery, and using heat, but thats not the battery performance.

 

And i definitely do drive more aggressively now at times then before. I have a better sense of how much electric I will use that day, and if I know i have surplus, will drive more aggressively.

[TMC]

I also posted this in another thread but it's more appropriate here.

 

I bought my energi about 3 months ago with 35k and in the beginning I would see 20 mile range on the display after charging. The car now has about 40k. After being on vacation and the car sitting for that week it shows only 15 or 16 on the display. It's been that way for the week we've been back. Is reduced range and battery degradation a warranty issue?

[Hybridbear]

I also posted this in another thread but it's more appropriate here.

 

I bought my energi about 3 months ago with 35k and in the beginning I would see 20 mile range on the display after charging. The car now has about 40k. After being on vacation and the car sitting for that week it shows only 15 or 16 on the display. It's been that way for the week we've been back. Is reduced range and battery degradation a warranty issue?

Your HVB will lose capacity over time. But, remember that the dash display is just an estimate. It varies based on many factors. Check out this post for more info.

[Rick West]

Hey all, I think what I have applies on this thread---and I think like most of you I am always trying to get the most from just electric driving--that is my goal anyway.  So,,,,I have a 2013 titanum  I bought with 7k miles on it and its at 25K now.  I have NEVER gotten even close to the 21 miles that ford claims and in reading many posts on here I hear so many others state they get well over 21 miles.  I work for Intel Corp.  and have a master in engineering and I have a good handle on technology.  So, I know all the factors that go into range like wind resistance being proportional to the square of your velocity, rolling resistance, type of driving, style of driving (quick starts, etc.) temperature, climate control usage, when you pull your car off of the charger, etc etc. 

I have even so far as to call up Ford and ask them HOW the EPA and ford derive the 21 mile number and looked into the testing procedure and I tried to duplicate it, and I still don't get 21 miles. 

 

I have tried EVERYTHING and at best I get about 16 miles at most.  Now, I also do  this range test on the freeway and drive so slowly (like 50-55) that most people want to drive by and kill me and let me know I am number 1.  ;-)  I do all I can do drive super smooth and keep all the climate control off. This is even in winter or summer so I can't say its the cold out impacting the range.  I am in CA so even 'cold" here is like 50-55F.

 

I have it at the dealer now (for other issues too---like the remote start issue of everything being grayed out for climate control).  The SA says they are working with "engineering" on it and they can't quite fix it yet.  

 

anyway, I know that is a long post, but could others please comment on what you are getting for pure electric range and in what style of driving? Most posts on here only seem to talk about mixed driving on the ICE and battery.  I am just wondering if its me and my driving, or is somehow my battery not as strong as others.  

 

please let me know if you are getting this under 21 mile range too.  

 

thanks!

[flyingcheesehead]

Hey all, I think what I have applies on this thread---and I think like most of you I am always trying to get the most from just electric driving--that is my goal anyway.  So,,,,I have a 2013 titanum  I bought with 7k miles on it and its at 25K now.  I have NEVER gotten even close to the 21 miles that ford claims and in reading many posts on here I hear so many others state they get well over 21 miles.  I work for Intel Corp.  and have a master in engineering and I have a good handle on technology.  So, I know all the factors that go into range like wind resistance being proportional to the square of your velocity, rolling resistance, type of driving, style of driving (quick starts, etc.) temperature, climate control usage, when you pull your car off of the charger, etc etc. 

I have even so far as to call up Ford and ask them HOW the EPA and ford derive the 21 mile number and looked into the testing procedure and I tried to duplicate it, and I still don't get 21 miles. 

 

I have tried EVERYTHING and at best I get about 16 miles at most.  Now, I also do  this range test on the freeway and drive so slowly (like 50-55) that most people want to drive by and kill me and let me know I am number 1.  ;-)  I do all I can do drive super smooth and keep all the climate control off. This is even in winter or summer so I can't say its the cold out impacting the range.  I am in CA so even 'cold" here is like 50-55F.

 

I have it at the dealer now (for other issues too---like the remote start issue of everything being grayed out for climate control).  The SA says they are working with "engineering" on it and they can't quite fix it yet.  

 

anyway, I know that is a long post, but could others please comment on what you are getting for pure electric range and in what style of driving? Most posts on here only seem to talk about mixed driving on the ICE and battery.  I am just wondering if its me and my driving, or is somehow my battery not as strong as others.  

 

please let me know if you are getting this under 21 mile range too.  

 

thanks!

 

 

Rick,

 

Do this: Start with a fully charged battery. Go for a drive in EV Now mode and watch the % on the Power screen. When it gets to zero and the car switches from EV Now to Auto mode, pull over and shut it off. What does the screen say for how much power was used?

 

Now, drive home and plug it into a Kill-A-Watt meter. How much power does it say it takes to fully charge? (Be sure to disable any go times).

 

Ideally, you'd be at about 6.0kW on the dash and 8.4kW on the Kill-a-Watt for a new car. For a 2013, depending on how often you charge, you might be down 10-20% from that, and thus also 10-20% down from the 21-mile rating. If you've been careful with battery temps and charging and your battery is still like new, maybe it's your driving. ;) 

 

FWIW, the reading on the Kill-a-Watt should be close to the reading from the dash divided by 0.72.

[Rick West]

thanks CheesHead,

  yeah,  in reading more I should have looked at the kW used after it runs down.  I know that screen comes on, and I have never paid too much attention to it except to see how many EV versus non EV miles.   The car is at the dealer now, so I will try this when I get it back and with the Kill a Watt too.   I was assuming ford would have some tests that they could run on the battery and give me some indication of the health of it.  we will see. ;-)

 

thanks for thoughts on this!

[murphy]

You are not going to get 21 miles driving on the freeway.  That will use the battery in a hurry.  To get above 21 miles you need flat roads, no air conditioning, no heat, temperature at 72 degrees F, smooth acceleration.  Smooth braking that does not engage the friction brakes until the car is below 5 mph. 

 

In the summertime I can easily make a 21 mile round trip on city streets with maximum speed of 45 mph.  In the winter time I get about 10 miles.

[jeff_h]

You are not going to get 21 miles driving on the freeway.  That will use the battery in a hurry.

 

All good points -- and don't today's window stickers show the rated range from the EPA test at 19 miles?  I thought they went from 21 to 19 back in 2014 when the checks were sent out, and the MPGe went from around 100 to 88, didn't they?

[openair]

All good points -- and don't today's window stickers show the rated range from the EPA test at 19 miles? I thought they went from 21 to 19 back in 2014 when the checks were sent out, and the MPGe went from around 100 to 88, didn't they?

Correct

[Hybridbear]

thanks CheesHead,

  yeah,  in reading more I should have looked at the kW used after it runs down.  I know that screen comes on, and I have never paid too much attention to it except to see how many EV versus non EV miles.   The car is at the dealer now, so I will try this when I get it back and with the Kill a Watt too.   I was assuming ford would have some tests that they could run on the battery and give me some indication of the health of it.  we will see. ;-)

 

thanks for thoughts on this!

Look at your trip history in MyFord Mobile to see this info for your most recent 30 trip/charge events.

Edited February 3, 2016 at 03:08 PM by Hybridbear

[AEPiZTMan1]

I have a 2015 FFE. When I first got the car in May 2015 with 6600mi on it I got 20mi on the battery. It has been at 17mi. for months now. I finally needed an oil change so last weekend I took it to the dealer which looked at it and said that the car was only charging to 87%. They reset the system and it then read 21mi. for all of 2 days. IT now reads 17mi. again. Not cool.  

[openair]

I have a 2015 FFE. When I first got the car in May 2015 with 6600mi on it I got 20mi on the battery. It has been at 17mi. for months now. I finally needed an oil change so last weekend I took it to the dealer which looked at it and said that the car was only charging to 87%. They reset the system and it then read 21mi. for all of 2 days. IT now reads 17mi. again. Not cool.

17 miles is pretty good for the weather most of us are experiencing this time of year. What are your average ambients temperatures and driving speeds? The range estimate is supposed to fluctuate. I wouldn't trust the dealership has any idea of what they're talking about when they said it was only charging to 87%. How many kWh are reported by MFM after a trip that fully depleted the hvb?

Edited February 15, 2016 at 12:58 PM by openair

[mrmikel]

Look at your trip history in MyFord Mobile to see this info for your most recent 30 trip/charge events.

I can only see the last 2 trips in MFM.  What am I missing?

[murphy]

I can only see the last 2 trips in MFM.  What am I missing?

At the lower right corner is a "view all" button.

 

You have to use a computer on the my ford mobile web site.

 

http://www.myfordmobile.com

Edited February 15, 2016 at 11:03 PM by murphy

[wxdude]

It would be nice if the website had the ability to pull up data from further back.  I noticed a few days ago I noticed that I am down to about 4.5 kW on a full charge.  I would of liked to pull up historical data to see its loss of capacity over time, to me it seems the change to 4.5 was pretty abrupt but can't verify with MFM.

[openair]

It would be nice if the website had the ability to pull up data from further back. I noticed a few days ago I noticed that I am down to about 4.5 kW on a full charge. I would of liked to pull up historical data to see its loss of capacity over time, to me it seems the change to 4.5 was pretty abrupt but can't verify with MFM.

Abrupt and corresponded with winter? What ambient temperature?

[wxdude]

Abrupt and corresponded with winter? What ambient temperature?

 

I have always have had good mileage off my battery, I pick and choose on when to use it and when to use the ICE depending on lots of things like heater usage, road topography and so forth.  Over the past couple winters I have had this car the mileage would drop from summer numbers of 23-26 to winter numbers of 17-19 for my driving.  Yesterday I noticed that it was at 14 when I got in the car, rare for me unless the wife has driven it.  After getting to work I saw that it only used 4.5 kW which seemed low.

 

I will say that is has been a while since I have activity paid attention to kW usage and that is why I went to MFM but it doesn't go back very far.  However the data it did have for about a week and a half all showed 4.5 kW used.  About two weeks ago I had an oil change and during that they did several recall items along with a PCM upgrade, as was told to me by the rep.  I was more wanting to verify that the battery state I am seeing was due to a slow reduction in capacity as I would expect at 61K and not related to a possible issue with a software upgrade.

 

Saying that, when I initially saw the 14 I chalked it up to being sloppy on the heater.  I was not watching the water temps or hvac draw and let the heat strips kick in for a while, I normally cycle EV/ICE to keep the strips from kicking in.  So yesterday i drove my normal battery saver way with reduced speed along with using semi's, no heater and all that.  I got 14 EV miles listed on MFM for that trip.  Today I showed 15 miles when I got in the car.  i did drive a tad faster, 3 mph more on the cruise, no heat and only got 12.9 EV miles listed in MFM.  Like I said above I have not been keeping close track on kW usage, its all been based on my drive distance and it has been pretty steady on the distance I can go on my commute to work up until recently.  Also the temps have been pretty mild and the HVB temps have been pretty steady around 35-38 degrees in the morning when I get in, its kept in a garage, with a rise to around 50 by the time I get to work.

 

This is in no way a complaint on my winter mileage stinks and so forth.  I fully expect my mileage to drop in the winter, it was the level that it has dropped to and the abruptness of the change that got my attention.  I was hoping to be able to use MFM to either rule out or give the possibility that a software update changed the available battery capacity and come to an explanation of this situation.

[openair]

4.5 kWh is well within expectations for below freezing temperatures. I get between 4.3 and 4.8 kWh between -5c and -20c. Nearly the same as last winter. And back up to 5.4 to 5.8 kWh above +5c.

 

Unless ambient temps have been consistent, data from MFM would need to be correlated with ambient temperatures.

Edited February 16, 2016 at 05:34 PM by openair

[eras001]

I found this post because I was looking for information about decreased EV ranges - mine is about 25% decrease over the past 18 months; but as I started reading the responses, it seems like it just morphed into a conversation about driving styles.  It's nice to hear opinions, but does anyone know for sure if the EV battery decrease will eventually just result in a unusable battery?  And has anyone had any feedback from Ford (not a car salesman) on what happens if the battery no longer takes a charge?  I'm concerned that in another year plus, my battery won't be providing much, or any, EV range at all.