Transmission Problems Anyone?

[murphy]

L is not a low gear.  It provides regen braking without the brake pedal being depressed.  If you were moving and off of the accelerator pedal it would provide a small quick charge to the battery.  Were you in all electric mode or hybrid mode?  I'm assuming hybrid mode since you were on a long trip.  The hybrid mode battery is not supposed to discharge below about 25% because it is needed to get the car moving.  Possibly the extended stop and go driving got the battery lower than normal.

[Margie]

Thank you Murphy for you post!

[RbrtinTcsn]

- Epilogue -

Today, after 4,138 miles, I turned over my Ford Fusion Energi to Ford one final time. It has been a process longer than I expected, but it is finally over.  The refund check from Ford Reacquired Vehicles arrived today at the local dealership, so I left work early to drop off the car and pick up the check.

 

After 68 days in the shop the jerking motion that originally caused this process is still there, though it has been happening much less frequently.  Admittedly, I haven’t been driving the car much after it arrived back from the second trip to the dealership service center.

 

If Ford can finally fix the problem (my guess is that it’s the Transmission Controller Module, now that the transmission has been replaced), then someone may get a deal on a lightly used Energi. 

 

BTW - If you happen to be reading this and you’ve been offered a reacquired 2015 White Ford Fusion Energi Titanium with gray leather seats and lots of options, you may wish to read the posts above and make sure Ford has fixed the issue buying it (last three digits of the VIN are 076).

   

Having gone through the process of making a Lemon Law claim and having it arbitrated by the BBB, let me pass along some things I learned.

 

1.)    If you think you have a valid claim, go straight to the BBB. They have an Auto Line program set up for this, and I received a response the day after I filed my claim.  This was a far faster response than what I had received from Ford.

 

2.)    For the refund, all costs related to the purchase of the vehicle are refunded, minus a mileage (usage) fee and costs to fix any damage. The mileage fee is based on the purchase price, multiplied by the fraction of current mileage divided by 100,000 miles. Aftermarket accessories will not be covered in the refund. 

 

 

 

Overall it wasn't a bad car, but the fit and finish just wasn't up to the same standards of my ten-year old 4runner.  Lots of little minor things: the gap at the front of the car and the hood was not uniform, the front of the headliner started to fray after 4,000 miles, and their were others.  I won't even mention Sync.  I might have kept it too if I had received a call from Ford after a few days instead of weeks. 

 

Here's a bit of info that I discovered, but not related to my problem, the ground clearance of a 2015 Ford Fusion Energi is 4.5 inches (the low point is at the body pan between the front wheels). No – I didn’t discover this the hard way – I actually measured this using a laser level (I was determining out how much ground clearance I’d need in the replacement vehicle). It’s odd that I can’t find this published anywhere.  

 

Here’s a timeline of the ordeal that will give you an example of the process should you need to do it:

 

Early July 2015 (~3500 miles): First noticed occasional jerking motion when braking or accelerating during the first mile of travel.

 

4Aug2015 (3721 miles): Left Fusion at Jim Click Ford East Service Center in Tucson, Arizona.  When I left the car, I provided a seven page report that included a description of the problem, how to replicate it, and including my guess at the source of the problem (with many of the data plots included above).  Note that this wasn’t the dealership that I had purchased the car from, but it was the one that was closest to my home.

 

31Aug2015: Fusion still at dealership, spoke with service advisor about progress (still working on it), and mentioned Lemon Law.  At this point, the problem was being worked by the assistant service manager.

 

4Sept2015: The service advisor called to tell me that, after consultation with Ford engineering, it had been decided to replace the transmission.  The service advisor indicated that the transmission should be replaced and the car ready by the end of the next week.

 

11Sept2015: Haven’t heard back from the dealership.

 

16Sept2015: Contacted the service advisor, and the advisor explains that the now car won’t be ready until the following week (24Sept2015).  At this point, 42 days into the process, I lost my patience and decided to make a Lemon Law claim.  An e-mail was sent out on the Lemon Law violation to Ford Customer Service. Also Fedex’d a letter requesting a refund under the Arizona Lemon Law to Ford Customer Service.  Additionally cc’d the letter to a number of people in Ford Executive management including CEO Mark Fields, the VP of North American Operations, and the VP of engineering. Cc’d the dealership owner, the service manager, and others on the letter.  In all the cover letters for these, a positive tone was taken highlighting that this was an isolated problem for the Ford Motor Company team. (For the record, I have not received any responses from any of the executives, the service manager, or the dealership owner that I mailed. Not that I was expecting one.)

 

20Sept2015: After having not received any response from anyone at Ford, went to the BBB Auto Line website and made a claim.

 

21Sept2015: Contacted by a case manager/arbitrator at BBB Auto Line.

 

24Sept2015: Picked up Fusion at service center.  Transmission had been replaced, and assistant service manager believed problem was fixed. Quality of the work performed was good.

 

25Sept2015: Vehicle experienced the jerking problem four times during the day. 

 

3Oct2015: Received letter from Ford requesting that I call the Customer Relationship Center.  This was the first response I had received to date, in any form, from the Ford company.

 

4Oct2014: Contacted Ford Customer Relationship Center.  Though the representative I finally reached was helpful, there wasn’t anything he could do given that I had already gone to the BBB, apart from giving me the Ford case number.

 

6Oct2015: Left the Fusion at dealership again.  This was after a trouble code had been set (the trouble code was for low Auxiliary Transmission Pump current), providing a new fault to diagnosis and perhaps something that might shed some light on the jerking problem.

 

14Oct2015: Received call from BBB arbitrator. During this conversation, the moment occurred where I realized that I would be requesting a refund and not a new vehicle.  In the conversation, which could be described as terse, I had mentioned that I didn’t get a loaner vehicle the first time I brought the car in. The arbitrator explained to me, with a bit of impatience, “Ford doesn’t owe you a loaner car under the terms of the Bumper-to-Bumper warranty. Only when the Bumper-to-Bumper warranty expires and you are covered by the Powertrain warranty will you be eligible for a loaner vehicle.”  …Huh?

 

15Oct2015: Received an e-mail from the BBB arbitrator agreeing that I was entitled to a refund, and outlining the settlement terms, and giving Ford 30 days to make good on the settlement.

 

23Oct2015: Picked up Fusion again.  Auxiliary Transmission Pump had been replaced, and trouble code was gone. 

 

29Oct2015: Received a call from Ford Reacquisition.  The representative outlined the reacquisition process, and said that an e-mail would be sent in the next few days with an offer, based on the condition of the vehicle and the mileage.  

 

30Oct2015: Packet with reacqusition paperwork sent to dealership.

 

10Nov2015: Drove vehicle to the dealership for reacquisition inspection and to sign off paperwork for refund (releases, Power of Attorney forms, etc.).  During this trip, the jerking issue occurred again.

 

16Nov2015: Refund check arrived at dealership. Officially transferred ownership of the vehicle at the dealership and picked up the check.

 

- The End -

 

My best wishes to all you Fusion Energi owners – may your cars remain trouble-free and your miles all be EV.

 

And before I forget: anyone interested in a Helms Service Manual, a set of Black Maxpider Floor Mats, or a 240/120V TurboCord Charging Cable (all for a 2015 Energi)?

 

RbrtinTcsn

[lonzo71]

Wow and Great! RbrtinTcsn. Sorry you had to go thru all of that, but thank you for your posts and updates! Just wondering, what car will you get now? I would hope you would try again with the Fusion, but will understand if you dont. In any case, I wish you will and hope your next is trouble free and your miles are in EV!

 

Best wishes!

[Timewellspent]

My best wishes to all you Fusion Energi owners – may your cars remain trouble-free and your miles all be EV.

 

And before I forget: anyone interested in a Helms Service Manual, a set of Black Maxpider Floor Mats, or a 240/120V TurboCord Charging Cable (all for a 2015 Energi)?

 

RbrtinTcsn

 

How much for the 240/120V TurboCord Charging Cable?

[expresspotato]

I've had zero issues with my car other than the horn sounded funny one day (replaced under warranty) but I can forcibly get the car to jerk forward and have the engine rev up and down seemingly violently.

My house is in the city of Toronto where the street will have an incline or a decline depending if I drive north or south after leaving home. If the car is fully charged, and I put the car into L and immediately drive downhill the car really doesn't like it. The engine comes on about half way down the hill to put on some negative torque, but it is generating power in the process. Engine power plus regenerative power + full battery = nah.

The engine will rev super high to about 5,000 (just a guess) and back down all the meanwhile trying to creep forward. Its like the software can't agree on what to do. Take the car out of l and put it into EV mode and floor it to drain the battery quickly is what I do.

Haven't done it since.

[murphy]

There is no engine power in that situation.  No fuel is being injected into the cylinders.  The engine is acting as an air compressor to provide back pressure to hold the car back since regen is not possible.

[expresspotato]

There is no engine power in that situation.  No fuel is being injected into the cylinders.  The engine is acting as an air compressor to provide back pressure to hold the car back since regen is not possible.

You're right, if you're going down hill in L. But here's the catch, the engine won't turn off from a cold start for ~ 60 seconds. When I'm at the bottom of the hill the car is stopped by the engine is still on and the car gets very confused.

[jeff_h]

You're right, if you're going down hill in L. But here's the catch, the engine won't turn off from a cold start for ~ 60 seconds. When I'm at the bottom of the hill the car is stopped by the engine is still on and the car gets very confused.

 

I think that's a different issue, where once the ICE comes on it then goes through whatever routine it does to warm up the emissions (my guess) and would occur anytime the ICE first comes on. This is why my wife often can't make it the 3 miles to work on EV alone, as she backs out of the driveway in the morning and hits the gas hard enough to make the ICE come on (because her driving has two modes: GO... and STOP! which also explains her braking scores), and it's then running for a couple minutes of that warmup routine.

Edited July 31, 2016 at 11:53 AM by jeff_h

[acsnws]

Just had my transmission replaced by Ford.  Their cost was $7800.  And if it wasn't under warranty add another 35% on top of that.  The issue was a whine when I accelerated when it was in hybrid mode.  Never happened in all electric mode.  This is a 2015 Energi with 45K.  I am not hard on cars and it freaks me out that this car is 18 months old and had to have a new trans put in.  We keep our cars a long time and the only trans issue we had was on a Sequoia at 180K.  I get that with use (towing) and miles on that vehicle. Ford service was great although since we are out of the bumper to bumper we did not get a loaner. Car was diagnosed and fixed within 2 weeks. 

 

Curious if anyone else has transmission issues similar to this.  

[Automate]

Just had my transmission replaced by Ford.  Their cost was $7800.  And if it wasn't under warranty add another 35% on top of that.  The issue was a whine when I accelerated when it was in hybrid mode.  Never happened in all electric mode.  This is a 2015 Energi with 45K.  I am not hard on cars and it freaks me out that this car is 18 months old and had to have a new trans put in.  We keep our cars a long time and the only trans issue we had was on a Sequoia at 180K.  I get that with use (towing) and miles on that vehicle. Ford service was great although since we are out of the bumper to bumper we did not get a loaner. Car was diagnosed and fixed within 2 weeks. 

 

Curious if anyone else has transmission issues similar to this.  

 

It has happen to a lot of 2013 and early 2014 Fusion and CMax but not so may 2015+ models

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/10342-info-on-transmissions-ecvt-that-have-failed/

[dgwillim]

I just had to replace the transmission in my 2014 and I'm just over 40k.

Luckily, it was covered by the power-train warranty AND the ESP, since the factory warranty is up.

 

I had the "whine/grinding/vibration" noise on the drivers side, and the noise was noticeable between 45-55 Mph.

Excessively so on deceleration.

[bdginmo]

I just had to replace the transmission in my 2014 and I'm just over 40k.

Luckily, it was covered by the power-train warranty AND the ESP, since the factory warranty is up.

 

I had the "whine/grinding/vibration" noise on the drivers side, and the noise was noticeable between 45-55 Mph.

Excessively so on deceleration.

 

Just curious...what did the ESP cover that the factory powertrain warranty did not?

[dgwillim]

Per the dealer, the ESP coverage resulted in zero out-of-pocket for me.

But I'm pretty sure, after reading the TSB, that it covered the complete cost of replacing the transmission.

 

Took almost two weeks, as the TSB required authorization from Ford, but at least they updated the all of the modules for me.

 

After replacement, car went back to being almost completely silent during EV use.

[V8toEVJeff]

Hey friends!! Well, it looks like I’m now having this issue and would like some tips....

 

First off, I drive a ton for work and always have to roll money into my next car so getting rid of the car isn’t a great path for me. I really want to get this car to last.

 

I have a friend who owns a transmission shop and is very good at what he does but he says my car is extremely rare, and he could rebuild it for cheap, but he can’t get the parts to do it. He says basically the bearing is grinding against the casing and eventually it will wear all the way through and cause failure. He said he can get me a new trans from Ford for $3,700 plus install labor.

 

Other thoughts, I could buy a wrecked one for cheap and steal the trans out of that, but the Energi is pretty rare. Is the trans the same as the regular Hybrid? That opens things up quite a bit and might even make the parts easier to find for my friend.

 

I could buy a used trans from www.car-part.com and have it shipped, but there’s a risk that it has the same issue.

 

Does anyone have any advice here?

 

Have these things actually failed over time, or are they just loud?

 

Thank you for any help!!

[murphy]

Hey friends!! Well, it looks like I’m now having this issue and would like some tips....

 

First off, I drive a ton for work and always have to roll money into my next car so getting rid of the car isn’t a great path for me. I really want to get this car to last.

 

I have a friend who owns a transmission shop and is very good at what he does but he says my car is extremely rare, and he could rebuild it for cheap, but he can’t get the parts to do it. He says basically the bearing is grinding against the casing and eventually it will wear all the way through and cause failure. He said he can get me a new trans from Ford for $3,700 plus install labor.

 

Other thoughts, I could buy a wrecked one for cheap and steal the trans out of that, but the Energi is pretty rare. Is the trans the same as the regular Hybrid? That opens things up quite a bit and might even make the parts easier to find for my friend.

 

I could buy a used trans from www.car-part.com and have it shipped, but there’s a risk that it has the same issue.

 

Does anyone have any advice here?

 

Have these things actually failed over time, or are they just loud?

 

Thank you for any help!!

They are similar but can't be the same.  The Energi has forced lubrication when running in electric only.  The Hybrid does not.  I have a 2013 and have not had the problem.  But I have only 10,000 miles on it mostly in electric only mode.  Whether the parts in question are the same, I don't know.

[Tanbam]

For what it’s worth, my car gets “jerky” right when I start my commute, too. I’ve got a downhill slope when I leave my house, and the chargers at work are on an upper floor in a parking garage.

 

I’m usually in L mode.

 

When the battery is fully charged and it’s trying to regen right away, the car prevents the regen from charging the battery any more. It will either enable the ICE for deceleration, or open the regen circuit. Either way, the car jerks a little and drives funny until the battery is depleted enough for “normal” operation.

 

Since I understand why the car acts like this, and it only happens under a very specific set of circumstances, I don’t have a problem with it. Don’t take the car in for repair for this, since it’s working like it’s supposed to.

 

A “fix” for this could be to only charge the battery to 95% or so in the software when plugged in, but I’d rather they not do this.

[expresspotato]

On 8/3/2016 at 8:51 AM, acsnws said:

I am not hard on cars and it freaks me out that this car is 18 months old and had to have a new trans put in. 

That's because we should have listened to our mom's, dads, brothers, sisters, cousins and grandparents when they TOLD YOU NOT TO BUY AN AMERICAN CAR - FORD THEY WILL FALL APART, PERIOD!

[ptjones]

I got 99k out of my first one and got it replaced for FREE ? and have 150k on my second one. I don't see a big problem here.

 

Paul

[Fat Fusion]

On 6/1/2020 at 8:02 PM, expresspotato said:

That's because we should have listened to our mom's, dads, brothers, sisters, cousins and grandparents when they TOLD YOU NOT TO BUY AN AMERICAN CAR - FORD THEY WILL FALL APART, PERIOD!

 

I don't know what's more retarded, your opinion or that you posted it on a Ford enthusiast site.

[16vjohn]

On 11/14/2019 at 5:35 AM, V8toEVJeff said:

Hey friends!! Well, it looks like I’m now having this issue and would like some tips....

 

First off, I drive a ton for work and always have to roll money into my next car so getting rid of the car isn’t a great path for me. I really want to get this car to last.

 

I have a friend who owns a transmission shop and is very good at what he does but he says my car is extremely rare, and he could rebuild it for cheap, but he can’t get the parts to do it. He says basically the bearing is grinding against the casing and eventually it will wear all the way through and cause failure. He said he can get me a new trans from Ford for $3,700 plus install labor.

 

Other thoughts, I could buy a wrecked one for cheap and steal the trans out of that, but the Energi is pretty rare. Is the trans the same as the regular Hybrid? That opens things up quite a bit and might even make the parts easier to find for my friend.

 

I could buy a used trans from www.car-part.com and have it shipped, but there’s a risk that it has the same issue.

 

Does anyone have any advice here?

 

Have these things actually failed over time, or are they just loud?

 

Thank you for any help!!

 

Probably too little too late, but you need the transfer shaft kit, which is available everywhere. Google: FG9Z-7H348-G. I suspect you could also find just a new bearing, but ford doesn't sell that separately, so who knows if you could get it perfect and correct.

 

The Energi version of the HF35 has some differences. The biggest difference is the auxiliary fluid pump. The aluminum castings are exactly the same, but the hybrid HF35 doesn't have the hole machined out to accept the auxiliary fluid pump return line. I suspect you could probably reuse the casing from the Energi transmission housing on a salvage hybrid HF35 transmission, but that'd be extremely hacky, I'm doubt anybody has ever done it considering how much more rare the Energi model is compared to the hybrid. Also, according to that TSB, the transfer shaft kit is different for the hybrid, but I suspect this has to do with gear ratios. Again, the transmission controller is going to be expecting certain RPMs for the different gear ratio of the Energi model and would most likely throw a wash of codes if it worked at all. I suppose it's possible you could install the Energi transfer shaft kit in a hybrid transmission, but I doubt anybody has ever done that.

 

I have a 2013 Energi... if I ever have trouble with the gearbox, I'll probably order a hybrid gearbox and try to adapt it just for fun.

 

Good luck.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10148717-9999.pdf

[zippoking]

For FFE, would this transfer shaft kit possibly prevent the transmission failures that some have had (although it seems much more prevalent on the FFH)?  I have a '14 FFE, with a 70k miles now and about 1 year left on hybrid parts warranty.  So I'm wondering if I want to keep this car for the long haul is it possible that this kit might be a little insurance just in case something hits the fan after the warranty expires?

[Pfrantz5]

Is anyone familiar with the check engine light coming on due to code P0C2C auxiliary transmission fluid pump control module feedback. I have a 2017 fusion energi. It has just over 85,000 miles. 

[Khial09]

Hey guys, I hope someone can help out here. 

 

I have a Ford Fusion Hybrid SE 2017 that's got me $4,000 upside down on a Carmax loan. Well, that's my fault. I had a depressive episode earlier this year, quit my job and decided to do gig work driving which helped my mental a lot. I've put about 40,000 miles on it in the last couple years. It's at just over 100,000 miles atm.  Regular oil changes, fluid maintenance. Transmission fluid flushed/replaced a couple weeks ago, thinking that was the problem.

 

I'm having strikingly similar issues to those in OP - intermittent issues with what I believe to be transmission, at lower speeds, both when accelerating and braking, but sharp increase in frequency over the past week. The car drives fine for the most part above 40 mph, outside of the gas pedal seemingly reacting with delay/less give. Under 40 mph, and more when accelerating, I hear what sounds like struggling gears, paired with either a pause in acceleration or a loss of momentum when braking and some jerkiness with varying degree. I'm extremely worried because this forum post is the most similar shared instance I could find to what I'm experiencing. 

 

I've read many forums. The only warning signal that's triggered at this sudden loss of power once the motor kicks in past EV acceleration is a service advancetrac light, along with the ABS signal. All posts that I've read that pertain to these signals are hit and miss with only some coming close to the problem I'm having, but none more than the one here, which I found only after searching "ecvt + transmission + ford + intermittent." I'll attach the most similar below.

 

My dad and I are trying to decide what to do with this car as it could be an array of issues / replacements. I should add, there are no trouble codes that come up when we scan car with quality scanner. My strongest opinion is to sell the car at a discount to a private party who's willing to work on the car, pay for fixings, and I eat the loss on the loan. It seems like the most reasonable option for me, as I am needing to find work asap and plan on biking to and from school and work from now on.

 

I worry that if I take the car to a dealer, I will go through a similar elongated diagnosis, replacement of whatever, and still have the problem afterwards. I have no warranty or back up vehicle and cannot afford to go through the same, unfortunately. 

I also cannot afford another vehicle as I am $4,000 upside down and looking for work as I can no longer drive gigs.

 

Any help is greatly appreciated. This is the most know-how and relevant forum post I have been able to find. Thanks again for any insight/advice

 

I am almost hopeless for this car before a professional diagnosis from reading this post. OP said he concludes fault is in TCM. There's just so much going on here

 

My full list of symptoms (might be due to different causes, I believe there's a problem in the transmission causing advancetrac features to be disabled, adding issues)

-- spongy / delayed response breaks

-- mild to violent forward jerking when coming to stop, while using EV power

-- forward jerking while accelerating, delayed shifts, normally once engine kicks in

-- considerable loss of power in general, EV works harder up to 40 mph if it has the power, then engine kicks in, later and louder than normal, with shaking

-- sounds of possible gear shift hesitation under driver side, behind dash, happening after motor kicks in and when car jerks while braking in EV or steadily accelerating in the 30 - 40 mph range     (usually simultaneous with loss of power, pause in acceleration - normally point when service advancetrac lights up)

-- loud humming/shaking seemingly produced somewhere in transmission region which is constant only after engine kicks in, sometimes while idle and EV power has been exhausted (this is during gig work, which I no longer feel safe doing)

-- service advancetrac, ABS signals paired with less stability in wheels and steering wheel, stiff steering wheel

-- jerking has become increasingly violent, leaving me to not feel safe driving. I'll drive the car around my home section (.20 mi) a couple times a day just in case salvageable

 

 

(bucks at braking, ecm/pcm lost comm codes, solution good - front speed sensors)

https://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/13526-car-bucks-when-slowing-down-to-a-stop/

 

(considerable loss of power, more demand from EV mode, advancetrac signal intermittent, appearing once engine kicks in, disappearing after car turned off and back on - no solution mentioned)

https://cartreatments.com/service-advancetrac/

 

(loss of power paired with advancetrac, ABS signals, solution good - faulty wiring)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFuyE-ndQ7s

 

Thanks so much for reading 

[Stevem]

Can anyone recommend a good rebuilder of these transmissions?  Anywhere in USA.  Thank You