flyingcheesehead Posted June 26, 2015 at 03:41 AM Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 at 03:41 AM I've noticed that my ICE is firing up shortly after I leave my house in the morning, and I'm not sure why. I'm in EV Now mode, and fully charged - This happens within a block of my house. HVAC is either off or fan-only. Fully charged. Moderate temps. It's not fuel freshness mode - I just put in a new tank, and the previous tank only lasted two months. It's not oil maintenance mode - the engine runs for a couple minutes and shuts off. What gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russael Posted June 26, 2015 at 04:15 AM Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 at 04:15 AM Are you driving in L or D? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbob Posted June 26, 2015 at 05:32 AM Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 at 05:32 AM Are you driving downhill? If so it could run out of battery to use the energy generated in which case it will run the engine but without fuel or spark for engine braking. Driving in L will make it more likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted June 26, 2015 at 10:10 AM Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 at 10:10 AM Is the EV Now icon on the car's display blue or yellow? Also, check the MFT power flow screen. It gives a reason why the ICE is on. lonzo71 and Hybridbear 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug0716 Posted June 27, 2015 at 05:38 AM Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 at 05:38 AM Are you driving downhill? If so it could run out of battery to use the energy generated in which case it will run the engine but without fuel or spark for engine braking. Driving in L will make it more likely. If you're driving in L it's probably this... I leave mine in D until I put about half a mile on the battery (no hills) then move to L. Even if I get the exact same brake scores the car will start the engine in L but not in D, give that a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbort Posted June 27, 2015 at 11:59 AM Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 at 11:59 AM Doug, why are you driving in L all the time? -=>Raja. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug0716 Posted June 27, 2015 at 10:57 PM Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 at 10:57 PM This vehicle doesn't have a standard transmission, there is no "lower gear", when you drive in 'L' it just raises the default regen. Higher regen, gets me a better brake score since it gets (almost) the max regen as soon as you lift off the throttle, so when I have to use the brake I know I'm braking harder than is most energy efficient. It takes a bit of getting used to because it starts slowing down (without the brake light) as soon as you take your foot off the pedal, so you get used to controlling your speed more with the throttle pedal than the brake... kinda like driving a standard and leaving it in gear when slowing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted June 28, 2015 at 12:12 AM Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 at 12:12 AM (edited) If the objective is to minimize energy consumption, the optimal way to stop is to shift into neutral and let the car coast to a stop right at the stop sign. Of course, that is impossible to do. So the next best strategy is to just leave it in drive, take your foot off the accelerator well before the stop sign, and let the car coast until you get close to the stop sign, and then apply the brakes as needed. The sooner you take your foot off the accelerator (provided you can actually coast all the way to the stop sign without having to press the accelerator again), the less energy you will consume. You can coast in L too, if you lightly press the accelerator to reduce the amount of regen, but not so much that you are using power from the HVB to continue to propel the car. Edited June 28, 2015 at 12:25 AM by larryh Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug0716 Posted June 28, 2015 at 05:21 AM Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 at 05:21 AM (edited) True, but for the areas I'm familiar with I know about when to let off the accelerator and let the regen do the braking for me to get me the highest percent without having to guess if I'm using friction brakes or not and it didn't take long to get use to coasting while in L. I also drive another vehicle that is a standard transmission and appropriately use transmission/engine braking when driving that so maybe that helped. (In an ICE engine vehicle without start/stop technology you want to be in gear when slowing down because it will be able to shut off fuel entirely to the engine, in N it will have to provide fuel to keep the engine running. Also similiar to regen braking extending our brake lives, engine braking does the same thing.)Driving the Fusion in L is nothing compared to the automatic regen brakes on the Telsa S. Those cars have a much heftier regen and are full power as soon as you let off the throttle.There's actually settings where you can set it to lower levels of regen so it won't "brake" as hard but I wouldn't use it for the same reasons as above. Another nice thing is that car uses g-force to determine if it should turn on the brake lights so even just coast-braking like that will cause the brake lights to turn on for safety. Edited June 28, 2015 at 05:22 AM by Doug0716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timewellspent Posted June 28, 2015 at 05:28 PM Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 at 05:28 PM I will shift into L to help slow me down at a quick red light I wasn't expecting and and will shift right back to D. I forgot once and was driving for a bit before I realized I was still in L. The car "feels" like it using more battery to get the car up to speed, so I feel like any benefit in having the regen start when you leave off the brake is lost when you go to accelerate and drive. Is this not the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbort Posted June 28, 2015 at 05:52 PM Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 at 05:52 PM You get the best MPGe numbers by maintaining your speed. If you are not careful while driving in L and not keep pressure on the gas pedal all the time you might Yo-Yo more so in your speed than if you are in D and will end up using more HVB power. Regen in L is close to max that's for sure, but with practice you can regen in D the same amount if you know how much brake to use without using the pads, with the exception of the brake light power draw that you don't get in L. For this reason I use D to drive but L has its places where I need and use it. For example like going down a steep hill or slowing down to take the offramp off the highway, or even using it to stop at a sudden red light. But driving in L all the time for me is not ideal, I prefer to drive in D and use cruise control more so than L. -=>Raja. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Fusion Posted June 28, 2015 at 06:50 PM Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 at 06:50 PM 99% of my driving is in L. Driving in D bugs me. All my previous cars were sticks, except the Falcon, but I converted it to a stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug0716 Posted June 28, 2015 at 09:24 PM Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 at 09:24 PM I will shift into L to help slow me down at a quick red light I wasn't expecting and and will shift right back to D. I forgot once and was driving for a bit before I realized I was still in L. The car "feels" like it using more battery to get the car up to speed, so I feel like any benefit in having the regen start when you leave off the brake is lost when you go to accelerate and drive. Is this not the case?That is not the case. The same motor that does regen is used to propel the vehicle so there is no way that it would be in "regen" mode and "accelerate" mode at the same moment in time. The only reason it would take more energy is if it slowed down more due to being a higher regen rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted June 29, 2015 at 07:09 PM Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 at 07:09 PM I will shift into L to help slow me down at a quick red light I wasn't expecting and and will shift right back to D.I do this too. If I'm in an area where I think a light might change on me I shift to L preemptively so that I'm ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcheesehead Posted July 14, 2015 at 11:32 PM Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 at 11:32 PM Sorry for the slow reply folks, I've been busy. I think it was the shifting into L before using much juice. I shift between N, D, and L frequently while driving to maximize efficiency; the engine was coming on about when I would first shift into L when I would be nearly fully charged still. It didn't turn off right away, though. Since any of the energy conversion processes in our cars are less than 100% efficient, I'll try to avoid using them when possible. So, when pulling out of my driveway, I accelerate a bit, then there's a short downgrade so I shift into N and let it push me along consuming no electricity for a bit, then it flattens out and shortly thereafter there's a stop sign. I'm in the habit of shifting into L and avoiding the brakes as much as possible because I don't want the pads to touch the discs (wasted energy!) so I'm probably still at or very near 100% when I shift into L the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymkrieg Posted July 14, 2015 at 11:42 PM Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 at 11:42 PM That is not the case. The same motor that does regen is used to propel the vehicle so there is no way that it would be in "regen" mode and "accelerate" mode at the same moment in time. The only reason it would take more energy is if it slowed down more due to being a higher regen rate. Doug, I'm not sure that's true. There are two motors in there, one is used for propulsion and the other is used for regen and it acts as the starter for the ICE. I'm not disagreeing with your statement about regen and acceleration just clarifying how the system is engineered. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdbob Posted July 14, 2015 at 11:53 PM Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 at 11:53 PM Doug, I'm not sure that's true. There are two motors in there, one is used for propulsion and the other is used for regen and it acts as the starter for the ICE. I'm not disagreeing with your statement about regen and acceleration just clarifying how the system is engineered. Gary The traction motor is used for both propulsion and regen. Do a google for OBDSM1503_HEV.pdf Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted July 15, 2015 at 01:34 AM Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 at 01:34 AM Doug, I'm not sure that's true. There are two motors in there, one is used for propulsion and the other is used for regen and it acts as the starter for the ICE. I'm not disagreeing with your statement about regen and acceleration just clarifying how the system is engineered. GaryThe traction motor is used for regen & acceleration. The generator motor is typically used as a generator when the ICE is on at low speeds. At high speeds it's used to regulate the power flow from the ICE through the planetary gear set to the wheels. It is not active when driving in EV mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonzo71 Posted July 15, 2015 at 02:14 PM Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 at 02:14 PM Just wanted to add that a tire with air, will roll when pushed...thats all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isaaktnt Posted July 16, 2015 at 11:17 PM Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 at 11:17 PM I will try using this car only for work and have a pretty consistent commute to work. I'll try one week in L and the other in D and will report... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcheesehead Posted August 12, 2015 at 12:06 AM Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 at 12:06 AM Doug, I'm not sure that's true. There are two motors in there, one is used for propulsion and the other is used for regen and it acts as the starter for the ICE. I'm not disagreeing with your statement about regen and acceleration just clarifying how the system is engineered. Gary The traction motor is used for both propulsion and regen. Do a google for OBDSM1503_HEV.pdf That document actually confirms that there are two motors - Both the 88kW traction motor and a 64kW generator motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted August 12, 2015 at 02:26 PM Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 at 02:26 PM That document actually confirms that there are two motors - Both the 88kW traction motor and a 64kW generator motor.Correct. When the ICE is on the two motors interact in different ways as well. The traction motor is the only one used when driving in EV mode. It does both acceleration & regen when in EV mode. The generator motor is the only one that can start the ICE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openair Posted August 12, 2015 at 10:43 PM Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 at 10:43 PM (edited) The Ford Fusion and Cmax and what are known as parallel-series hybrids (as opposed to series-parallel or only one or the other). It would be pretty difficult for these parallel-series hybrids to run in a series without both a traction motor and a generator motor. Edited August 12, 2015 at 10:45 PM by openair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhynri Posted August 18, 2015 at 11:08 PM Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 at 11:08 PM Totally random, but I kept bumping the OK button on the wheel backing out of the driveway after putting the car in EV Now mode, which switches it to that stupid screen where bumping the OK turns the engine on. Ooops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dperreno Posted November 14, 2015 at 05:41 PM Report Share Posted November 14, 2015 at 05:41 PM Although this post is a little old, it answered my question! I just got my 2014 Fusion Energi last week and this morning I drove to Home Depot (about 1 mile). When I left Home Depot, the ICE started up and kept running until I stopped at a light about 3/4 of a mile down the road. I was in EV Now mode. I couldn't figure out why the engine was running - the display just said "for performance" or "for normal operation" or something unhelpful. Reading this thread, I remembered that I put the transmission into L as I was leaving the parking lot. Since the car was almost fully charged, that must have triggered the ICE to start. I'll have to remember that! Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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