Are we crazy for wanting an Energi?!

[jessa07]

Hi all. My husband and I have been extensively looking at Fusion Hybrids. Last weekend at the dealer, the sales manager let us in on how great the lease deals on the Energi are. In terms of monthly payments, the Energi would be the most affordable Fusion for us. However, we don't currently have a reliable place to charge it. We rent a condo, and so far, I don't think I'd be able to charge at work. The closest charger is at a Ford dealer about 2 miles away. I know you don't NEED to plug in, but I guess I would feel a little silly having a plug in that I can't charge anywhere. Are we crazy? Should we just go back to looking at the regular hybrids instead?

[Russael]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

 

No, you're not crazy for investigating a Fusion Energi just because it's a great deal.   :)  As you mentioned, it isn't a requirement to plug it in, but that is its greatest benefit.

 

However, if the deal is pretty much the same between a Hybrid and an Energi, the Hybrid would likely become a better car for you for a couple of reasons:

 

1.  You get more trunk space with the Hybrid.  The battery is much smaller and doesn't consume storage space like the Energi battery does.

 

2.  The Fusion Hybrid does beat the Energi in fuel economy by a little bit, since it doesn't weigh quite as much and has a slightly more efficient gearing.

 

3.  The Fusion Energi is really intended to be plugged in.  While the car is in hybrid mode, the battery is operating at a pretty low state of charge, and that isn't very good for keeping the life of the battery long.

 

There are a couple interesting advantages that the Energi may provide for you, if you're in a position to take advantage of them:

 

1.  The Energi is usually granted a pass to use HOV lanes as a single occupant vehicle (if the passes are still available in your area).  This could save you a ton of time on your daily commute.  This has been a huge motivating factor for many members here who live in California, and other markets that use HOV lanes.

 

2.  If you commute through mountains routinely, the Energi can capture MUCH more energy while traveling downhill, since the battery is so much larger.

 

You'll have to weigh the advantages and disadvantages and decide if the Energi is right for you.  Personally, if I couldn't plug this vehicle in, I would've gone hybrid.  Having a larger trunk would be nice and it would seriously bug me knowing that I may be shortening the life of a 9,000 dollar battery pack because I'd always be operating it with low energy.

 

If you intend to move soon and possibly have access to a plug, then I'd go Energi.   :)

 

I'm sure some other forum members will have excellent advice to tack on to what I've provided, but I think this is a good start.

Edited June 7, 2015 at 01:47 PM by Russael

[Hybridbear]

Hi all. My husband and I have been extensively looking at Fusion Hybrids. Last weekend at the dealer, the sales manager let us in on how great the lease deals on the Energi are. In terms of monthly payments, the Energi would be the most affordable Fusion for us. However, we don't currently have a reliable place to charge it. We rent a condo, and so far, I don't think I'd be able to charge at work. The closest charger is at a Ford dealer about 2 miles away. I know you don't NEED to plug in, but I guess I would feel a little silly having a plug in that I can't charge anywhere. Are we crazy? Should we just go back to looking at the regular hybrids instead?

It may be possible to plug in at home. We live in an apartment and plug in. Is there anywhere near your assigned parking area that has electricity? If there is then there's a way you could plug in.

[expresspotato]

If you don't have an at home charger I would recommend the hybird instead. There's really no point in owning a plugin car without being able to plug it in!!!

[jessa07]

We ended up going with the Energi because the payments were just so much less than the Hybrid with all the incentives. Still no spot to plug in, but my manager at work is surprisingly supportive of the EV movement and we're currently researching chargers to install. Even without plugging in, it's still a darn good hybrid :) Hopefully, we'll be able to move somewhere soon where we can plug in at home.

[ls973800]

We ended up going with the Energi because the payments were just so much less than the Hybrid with all the incentives. Still no spot to plug in, but my manager at work is surprisingly supportive of the EV movement and we're currently researching chargers to install. Even without plugging in, it's still a darn good hybrid :) Hopefully, we'll be able to move somewhere soon where we can plug in at home.

 

 

Good to hear you are happy with the car.  I also leased an Energi (C-Max) back in April because of the FANTASTIC rebates and incentives on the car.  Less monthly payment by quite a bit than a Hybrid would have been just like your situation.  I was able to get the 303A package and the panoramic roof (which does not open or vent) for a very reasonable payment.

 

I do charge and have been able to take advantage of the Energi benefits.  I do miss having the extra trunk space that a Hybrid would have given, but it really isn't that big of a deal.  Folding the rear seats down when needed has served me well.

[Hybridbear]

We ended up going with the Energi because the payments were just so much less than the Hybrid with all the incentives. Still no spot to plug in, but my manager at work is surprisingly supportive of the EV movement and we're currently researching chargers to install. Even without plugging in, it's still a darn good hybrid :) Hopefully, we'll be able to move somewhere soon where we can plug in at home.

Have you been able to find free public chargers near frequent destinations? It can potentially cause damage to the HVB to leave it in such a low state of charge all the time. There is a reason why the car is programmed to charge immediately when the HVB is discharged all the way, even if it means overriding the Value Charge settings: the car is trying to protect the HVB.

Edited June 25, 2015 at 11:01 PM by Hybridbear

[Russael]

Have you been able to find free public chargers near frequent destinations? It can potentially cause damage to the HVB to leave it in such a low state of charge all the time. There is a reason why the car is programmed to charge immediately when the HVB is discharged all the way, even if it means overriding the Value Charge settings: the car is trying to protect the HVB.

 

I had made note of that, but they're leasing the car.  It won't be their problem once they turn it back in.  However, if they can get a free charge at work or other public EVSEs, all the better. :)

[lonzo71]

Since its all one battery, Do we know for sure it will hurt it if you dont plug in? and if so, what is the time line, 6 months? one year?  I'd really like an official yes or no from Ford, but doubt that will happen. I cant believe that with any period of time, that you can damage or destroy the battery if you dont plug in...just doesnt make sense...the battery loses charges over time anyways.....

[rbort]

Since its only one battery, if you intend not to charge it I would charge it to the 60% level and use EV later all the time ever time to maintain the battery charge.  Some charge will be lost over time, and when the battery drops down to around 40% I would bring it back up to 60% and repeat.

 

Basically you're driving in hybrid mode all the time, but instead of the battery spending 6 months or however long you intend to do this at near dead charge levels, its much better for its life to spend that time at storage charge levels.

 

-=>Raja.

[lonzo71]

Maybe, but even if you are going to keep it...a battery being used all the time, vs a little,  to none at all...the car battery should still last at least 5+ years so in this case, they will get better milage vs a hybrid. Saved a bunch of money, use the HOV lanes and in 5 years...trade it in for better. I would have done the same thing, no matter if I could charge or not

[jessa07]

Don't get me wrong, we've plugged in at least 5 times in the two weeks we've had it, I'm just not currently able to plug it in every single night. And like someone said, it's a lease, with an 8 year warranty on the battery anyway. Lithium ion batteries today are much more resilient than their old counterparts. My husband is an electrical engineer that works with batteries every day, so I'm inclined to trust his advice. :)

[lonzo71]

Don't get me wrong, we've plugged in at least 5 times in the two weeks we've had it, I'm just not currently able to plug it in every single night. And like someone said, it's a lease, with an 8 year warranty on the battery anyway. Lithium ion batteries today are much more resilient than their old counterparts. My husband is an electrical engineer that works with batteries every day, so I'm inclined to trust his advice. :)

Nice!

[Rhynri]

As you've probably noticed, if you swap between modes, you can actually eek out a lot of useful miles out of the pack.  On long road trips I tend to do exactly that: lots of button pushing to use the pack to my advantage, as it's vastly more efficient at 30-40 mph than burning it off at 60-70.  Sometimes, if there are hills, I can actually charge the pack over the course of the trip by regen down the hill then cycling through to EV Later at this higher level.  Lots of fun, and you can try to beat your old scores!

[davonavo]

Thank you!

[ClaveMan]

I am thinking of buying a 2017 Ford Fusion Energi Platinum. 

 

I drive about 110 miles per day (55 miles round trip), 80% interstate.  No lease is affordable at 30,000 miles per year..

About 5 times a week I experience some quality stop and go time as I cross the St. Louis metro area a twice a day.

 

I currently drive a 2010 Honda Insight (newer one, not the weird one) which gets 50MPG solid each day.  The Insight is too small for my (now) teenage kids. 

 

I want:

1. Great gas mileage.
2. Nerd factor: Honda Insight is a hybrid with lots of telemetry (charging, not charging).  So playing the "hypermiling" game is interesting to me.
3. As much safety as I can get.  Lots of questions on whether the Ford "Smart" technology actually meets the promise on the glossy brochures (for example, can I really make it across the metro area without touching the brake? ("Adaptive Cruise Control with Stop and Go")
4. Who needs a trunk?  My wife has a big crossover. (I am guessing an Energi with a big Thule on top doesn't get 90MPG).

The $4007 tax break would be nice.   Wish my employer would let me plugin for the ride home, but that won't happen (anyone have a Tesla adaptor?  Maybe I could fillup there.  A joke.  I did see a Tesla charging station once in town).  I'll plugin all night every day.

 

I am also concerned that I will get a "jaw drop" from any Ford car salesman.  "An Energi?  This ain't California.  I can get one in eight weeks.  Excuse me .. there's someone in the parking lot.."

 

 

Thanks

Edited November 1, 2016 at 02:17 AM by ClaveMan

[Eric4539]

Hi ClaveMan,

 

You'll definitely like the ride of the Energi better than the Insight.  But test drive the Energi as much as you can.  Here are my opinions for you.

 

1.  Great gas mileage.  You won’t get great gas mileage if the Energi will be your daily driver and you do 110 miles.  You should expect 39-42 mpg if you don’t have long downhill stretches where you might be able to regenerate some miles back into the high voltage battery.  Sounds as if you’ll be in Hybrid mode for most of your drive.  You said you do have stop and go during some of that commute so you may achieve higher mpg. 

2.  Nerd factor.  You definitely won’t look like a nerd driving the Energi, but you can always do the nerdy hypermiling in the right lane while Insight drivers pass you on the left!

3.  Safety.  I think the Energi has great safety features.  BLIS/Cross Traffic Alert can come in handy when reversing out of parking spaces or exiting parking garages that cross sidewalks.  I have Adaptive Cruise Control which I think is one of the best features offered.  For 2017 it has been improved to stop and start without driver input following the car in front of you.  To get a feel of how it works I recommend test driving an Energi with this feature.  

4.  The trunk is very small but as long as that is not an issue then you're all set!

 

If you find a dealer that sells the Energi, set an appointment for the day you want to test drive it.  Ask them if they can have the car fully charged when you arrive.  All the dealers that I visited did not have their Energi's charged so I drove them in Hybrid mode which isn't ideal.  I'm sure others on this forum have different opinions and recommendations for you, but you are in very good hands with the members of this forum!

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

[murphy]

Drive it in EV later mode (hybrid operation) when on the freeway.  Drive it in EV Now mode (all electric) when in stop and go traffic and in town.

 

My longest round trip is 21 miles so I can do the whole trip in electric mode in the summer, and usually in spring and fall.  In the winter I get about 10 miles in electric mode with the heater on.  Without the heater and just using the seat heater and a warm coat gets 15 - 18 miles.  A 2017 has steering wheel heat.  My 2013 does not have that.

[Doc Rock]

ClaveMan,

 

I bought a 2017 Fusion Energi Platinum in August. So far, I'm liking it very much.

 

My commute is much shorter than yours (~9 miles R/T), but I take monthly road trips to visit the grandkids who are about 220 miles away. So, I'm electric locally and hybrid for the road trips.

 

Mileage and electric range are heavily dependent on the ambient temperature. Above 60 degrees, you're likely to get great mileage and great range especially if you are easy on the accelerator and the brake pedal. Below 60 degrees, you'll see a drop in range and mileage (the battery isn't as efficient in colder temps).

 

The FFE Platinum has great safety features including adaptive cruise control, BLIS, and lanekeeping as well as pedestrian detection (both ahead and behind). It is also a very quiet car with virtually no noise - even at highway speeds - except some minor tire noise.

 

The heated seats work better than the ones in the MKZ I traded for the FFE and, on chilly mornings, I am able to extend my battery range by using the heated seat rather than turning on the defroster/heater (which suck up a lot of electricity).

[ClaveMan]

...

Mileage and electric range are heavily dependent on the ambient temperature. Above 60 degrees, you're likely to get great mileage and great range especially if you are easy on the accelerator and the brake pedal. Below 60 degrees, you'll see a drop in range and mileage (the battery isn't as efficient in colder temps).

...

The heated seats work better than the ones in the MKZ I traded for the FFE and, on chilly mornings, I am able to extend my battery range by using the heated seat rather than turning on the defroster/heater (which suck up a lot of electricity).

A few thoughts. ..

 

Seems like charging your battery all night would help a lot with the "60 degree" issue. My garage interior dips below 60 degrees for about 15 weeks a year. I would think my battery, plugged into the wall alll night would be at 60 degrees (or more) unless the garage was frigid (2-3 weeks a year). As long as I deplete my battery before I get to work (assume my battery goes cold in my parking lot at work all day), I should get the "Energi benefit" EV mode benefit on my morning commute 45-50 weeks a year.

 

On a conventional automobile the heater and defrost are working off your water coolant temperature and not the battery. Begs the question: in EV mode does the engine cam shaft rotate at all? ("brake" engine mode should charge the battery AND heat up the radiator a bit since there is no spark). Heating your seat and steering wheel would be the only battery drain for heating the interior (right?)

 

Still learnin about the Energi..

 

Thanks

Edited November 1, 2016 at 04:20 PM by ClaveMan

[murphy]

The engine does not turn in EV only mode.

The engine can not move the car in reverse.  Only the electric motor can move the car in reverse.

 

There is a 5 kW resistance heater to heat the water for cabin heat.  The engine coolant loop is bypassed in this mode.

[JATR4]

I am thinking of buying a 2017 Ford Fusion Energi Platinum. 

 

I drive about 110 miles per day (55 miles round trip), 80% interstate.  No lease is affordable at 30,000 miles per year..

About 5 times a week I experience some quality stop and go time as I cross the St. Louis metro area a twice a day.

 

I currently drive a 2010 Honda Insight (newer one, not the weird one) which gets 50MPG solid each day.  The Insight is too small for my (now) teenage kids. 

 

I want:

1. Great gas mileage.
2. Nerd factor: Honda Insight is a hybrid with lots of telemetry (charging, not charging).  So playing the "hypermiling" game is interesting to me.
3. As much safety as I can get.  Lots of questions on whether the Ford "Smart" technology actually meets the promise on the glossy brochures (for example, can I really make it across the metro area without touching the brake? ("Adaptive Cruise Control with Stop and Go")
4. Who needs a trunk?  My wife has a big crossover. (I am guessing an Energi with a big Thule on top doesn't get 90MPG).

The $4007 tax break would be nice.   Wish my employer would let me plugin for the ride home, but that won't happen (anyone have a Tesla adaptor?  Maybe I could fillup there.  A joke.  I did see a Tesla charging station once in town).  I'll plugin all night every day.

 

I am also concerned that I will get a "jaw drop" from any Ford car salesman.  "An Energi?  This ain't California.  I can get one in eight weeks.  Excuse me .. there's someone in the parking lot.."

 

 

Thanks

If you are driving 30,000 miles per year you will want an extended warranty since the original warranty is only for 36,000 miles.  Check floodfordesp.com for pricing.

Edited November 1, 2016 at 05:47 PM by JATR4

[ClaveMan]

If you are driving 30,000 miles per year you will want an extended warranty since the original warranty is only for 36,000 miles. Check floodfordesp.com for pricing.

5 years is max for me (150,000 miles)

$1,650 - $2500 depending on deductible would "kill" my tax credit for sure!

[ClaveMan]

The engine does not turn in EV only mode.

The engine can not move the car in reverse. Only the electric motor can move the car in reverse.

 

There is a 5 kW resistance heater to heat the water for cabin heat. The engine coolant loop is bypassed in this mode.

So on my 55 mile ice cold January commute I would be wise to let my combustion engine warm up the car (and me) for the first 15 miles, and the EV take over for the last 15. Edited November 1, 2016 at 08:17 PM by ClaveMan

[murphy]

So on my 55 mile ice cold January commute I would be wise to let my combustion engine warm up the car (and me) for the first 15 miles, and the EV take over for the last 15.

It depends on your speed.  High speed in electric mode drains the battery in a hurry because the drag from the air, that has to be pushed out of the way, increases with the square of the velocity,