After dodging the dead 12vt battery issue for 2 years...

[shaggy314]

Boom. Dead car this morning.

 

Got a wrench yesterday, but went to two destinations and back home without issue. Car charged at each and seemed to charge at home.

 

Awaiting the jump 'start' now.

 

I've been noticing sometimes the car will do a trickle charge for quite sometime after the HVB is done. It keeps the ring fully lite and the charge is on low power.

 

I hope it is just a weak 12 Vt. battery as mine is an early build 2013.

[shaggy314]

I will say it was the fastest jump start I'd ever seen, since it's just enabling the HVB. The Ford roadside guy suggested some accessory was on and it drained it. He thought when the car powered up like the accessories were still on.

 

Day 3, they still have her at Covert. At least I got them to charge it up full. Still not sure why the 12 vt. didn't wasn't charged as they report everything seems fine. It seems they want to do a recall while she is there too.

 

At least I got a Focus for $8 a day in the meantime. It's not as much fun trying to get good mileage in it.

[Energized]

You had the wrench light? Did you or the dealer pull the code?

[murphy]

With a fully charged 12 volt battery the three 12 volt power ports stay on for around 70 minutes and are then turned off.  With a weak 12 volt battery they are turned off as soon as the driver's door is opened after the car is turned off.  The computers are always on.  Accessing the car remotely via MFM wakes the car up.  I've measured in excess of 10 amps being drawn from the 12 volt battery when MFM wakes it up.

 

It's an undersized battery and if it has ever been completely dead it is also a damaged battery.  Wet cell lead acid batteries are almost always damaged by being completely discharged.

[meyersnole]

With a fully charged 12 volt battery the three 12 volt power ports stay on for around 70 minutes and are then turned off.  With a weak 12 volt battery they are turned off as soon as the driver's door is opened after the car is turned off.  The computers are always on.  Accessing the car remotely via MFM wakes the car up.  I've measured in excess of 10 amps being drawn from the 12 volt battery when MFM wakes it up.

 

It's an undersized battery and if it has ever been completely dead it is also a damaged battery.  Wet cell lead acid batteries are almost always damaged by being completely discharged.

 

Murphy, was it you that did a mod to put a larger battery in the car? I looked for that recently, but that content has rolled off the board. 

 

I have not been left stranded, but every once in a while the car turns the radio off immediately to conserve power. Would you recommend an AGM battery for the replacement? 

[murphy]

Murphy, was it you that did a mod to put a larger battery in the car? I looked for that recently, but that content has rolled off the board. 

 

I have not been left stranded, but every once in a while the car turns the radio off immediately to conserve power. Would you recommend an AGM battery for the replacement? 

Yes.

 

http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1258-the-bxt-99r-390-is-a-standard-car-battery/?do=findComment&comment=7276

 

I have an AGM battery in my car.

 

I also have a 12 volt 7 amp-hour gel cell in the glove compartment with a small jumper cable made from 12 gauge wire that can be used to "jump" the car using the terminals under the hood if necessary.  So far it hasn't been necessary.

[Russael]

Since I had the computer modules all updated, I noticed my car stays on charge a lot longer than it used to (I noticed it always continued to charge after it was 'complete' before, but now it'll stay on for more than an hour from time to time).  I've also noticed once the car calling on the charger for more energy after it had sat in the garage for a day or two without being driven, and no, I didn't use MFM at that time.  Went outside, saw the charge indicator lit on my EVSE.  Figured it was topping off the 12v.

 

My car used to immediately go in to battery save for the stereo after powering off the car, but now it'll actually play for a while, so they must've had an updated algorithm built.  I haven't seen complaints of dead 12v batteries much for late 2014 model year vehicles or newer.

 

The dealership charged way too much for that service... 550 big ones.  10 modules, every one had an update available, so it broke down to 55 a module.  I was at the dealership from 8am to 3:30pm waiting on all of those updates.

[murphy]

Ford hasn't quite made it into the interconnected world yet.  

 

A Tesla receives all of the updates automatically "over the air".  They can then be scheduled to install at a time of the owner's choosing, like when he/she is sound asleep.

[Russael]

Yeah, I'm aware of Tesla's OTA updates.  They did it right.

 

Frankly, I'd have no problem doing calibration updates myself, but the computer accessory required to do it is like 250 bucks, and then there's the software, and then to get access to the calibration files at Ford is a yearly subscription which is expensive.  I suppose it keeps that business at the dealerships so they can make money, but it's lousy for the consumer.

 

Ebay has kits that run about 600 bucks that do all of this.

Edited June 4, 2015 at 03:59 PM by Russael

[meyersnole]

Ford hasn't quite made it into the interconnected world yet.  

 

A Tesla receives all of the updates automatically "over the air".  They can then be scheduled to install at a time of the owner's choosing, like when he/she is sound asleep.

 

Ford Sync 3 is suppose to allow for WiFi update, according to the demo.

 

[Russael]

But that may just be Sync updates - it won't update the calibrations within all of the computer modules in the car... will it?

[larryh]

Tesla needs OTA updates.  They don’t have the resources to complete software development before they manufacture the car.  Many of their features (such as Navigation) are really incomplete beta versions of the promised software.  This allows them to promise all sorts features without yet actually delivering on their promises before the sale.   Also, many of their software features are rudimentary compared to other manufacturers.  They need to update them to catch up with the other manufacturers.  They didn’t have TACC and many of the other features until last year, while others had been offering them for many years. 

 

There is a problem with this model.  How long do you have to wait before they can deliver the software updates required to realize all the promised features.  The car may be obsolete by the time the updates arrive.  They are constantly updating the car’s hardware.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JeffPrice]

I have had my battery replaced once and now the new one is down to 12.2 volts. I think its pretty simple, the battery is not getting charged properly.

With the car sitting in the garage, pluged in I should not be seeing 12.2 volts from the battery.

 

One more thing. After the battery was replaced the car once again started reporting to Ford. After about 6 weeks it stopped doing so. Actually I'm OK with that.

[larryh]

Since I had the computer modules all updated, I noticed my car stays on charge a lot longer than it used to (I noticed it always continued to charge after it was 'complete' before, but now it'll stay on for more than an hour from time to time).  I've also noticed once the car calling on the charger for more energy after it had sat in the garage for a day or two without being driven, and no, I didn't use MFM at that time.  Went outside, saw the charge indicator lit on my EVSE.  Figured it was topping off the 12v.

 

My car used to immediately go in to battery save for the stereo after powering off the car, but now it'll actually play for a while, so they must've had an updated algorithm built.  I haven't seen complaints of dead 12v batteries much for late 2014 model year vehicles or newer.

 

The dealership charged way too much for that service... 550 big ones.  10 modules, every one had an update available, so it broke down to 55 a module.  I was at the dealership from 8am to 3:30pm waiting on all of those updates.

 

I had calibration updates for six the modules in my car.  They were done under warranty--most of them were because the MIL came on when I used the engine block heater.  The car does charge the 12 V battery significantly more after the modules were updated.  The SOC of the 12 V used to be less than 70%.  Now it is generally above 90%. 

Edited June 4, 2015 at 08:37 PM by larryh

[Hybridbear]

The dealership charged way too much for that service... 550 big ones.  10 modules, every one had an update available, so it broke down to 55 a module.  I was at the dealership from 8am to 3:30pm waiting on all of those updates.

Wait a minute, what??? You paid to have work done that should be covered under warranty? Just check out the TSB/SSM section of the Forum and you'll find an applicable TSB or SSM that you can reference to have the modules updated under warranty.

[Russael]

Wait a minute, what??? You paid to have work done that should be covered under warranty? Just check out the TSB/SSM section of the Forum and you'll find an applicable TSB or SSM that you can reference to have the modules updated under warranty.

 

Technically, my car didn't exhibit any of these problems, so there was nothing to really troubleshoot.  Others on the forum have said that they will not update a module unless they have a reproducible problem, in which case they could update it under warranty.  Asking the dealership to just arbitrarily update the software is what I did.  I just consider it computer maintenance.

 

It was just stupidly expensive.

 

To get access to Ford's calibration files for 1 year is $699, and that doesn't include any hardware.

[Hybridbear]

Technically, my car didn't exhibit any of these problems, so there was nothing to really troubleshoot.  Others on the forum have said that they will not update a module unless they have a reproducible problem, in which case they could update it under warranty.  Asking the dealership to just arbitrarily update the software is what I did.  I just consider it computer maintenance.

 

It was just stupidly expensive.

 

To get access to Ford's calibration files for 1 year is $699, and that doesn't include any hardware.

I've never had the dealership try to reproduce the issue unless there's no TSB or SSM for the concern. I tell them what the issue is as described in the TSB or SSM and they perform the software update and bill Ford. If the issue is already known and recognized by a TSB or SSM they haven't ever tried to reproduce the issues, they just do the software update & move on.

 

It should be that simple.

Edited June 8, 2015 at 01:38 PM by Hybridbear

[shaggy314]

You had the wrench light? Did you or the dealer pull the code?

 

They claim no code found. I checked for one when I hooked up my ODB2 scanner and KNOW I didn't clear it, didn't see one either.

 

UPDATE: No issue since, but still see the occasional LVB top off.

Edited July 5, 2015 at 06:14 AM by shaggy314

[murphy]

If the car is not driven at least 25 miles every other day the 12 volt battery needs to be directly charged to keep the car from running it down.  Every time the car is accessed from MFM there is a significant load put on the 12 volt battery.  The only time the car charges the 12 volt battery is when it is in RUN mode.  At all other times the big battery is disconnected and the 12 volt battery is powering the car.

 

The 12 volt battery may be charged at the end of charging the HVB from the wall but it doesn't always happen.  If you get a text message or email from MFM saying the car is charged but the charger is still blinking, it is charging the 12 volt battery.

 

I put an AGM battery in my car.  That required the use of a hacksaw.  The battery still drops to low charge levels but an AGM battery maintains its voltage at much lower charge levels than a wet cell lead acid battery does.

[meyersnole]

My car sits in the garage alot, plugged into the L2 charger. Some of my trips are are a mile there, mile back (not much time to charge). At least once a month I drive the car enough to run the engine (30-40 mile round trip), but mostly I am able to drive around on just the battery until football (travel) season. 

 

Every once in a while I get that message that the car turned itself off to save the battery but fortunately I have always had success when pushing the button to start the car. 

 

Recently, after reading too many of these my car is dead posts, I decided to buy a meter to see what my voltage levels are. Quick trip to amazon and a few days later a Stinger SGP12 Digital Voltage Meter showed up on my front porch. I should probably be keeping a log, but I am just observing what is happening. Fortunately (unfortunately?) I have not seen the message about shutting down since the beginning of June when I purchased the meter. So I am struggling as to what to make of these readings (observations).

 

The meter is a little hard to read because when the car starts the system reports 14.something volts, and displays nothing before I start it. I have learned to look at it just after I turn off the car and before I open the door. Most of the times it is around 12.4 or 12.3. If you leave the radio on most of the time it drops QUICKLY settling in the high 11s (11.9, 11.8).

 

So my question for the subject matter experts on the board is how low before the battery is damaged?  What voltage level should the battery register when I turn the car off (ideally)? 

 

Thanks in advance for the help. I figure when I replace this battery I am going to do Murphy's AGM mod, but don't want to replace a functioning battery before I have to replace it. I put an AGM in my last car because of the sound system I installed and really liked it, never had any issues. 

[meyersnole]

And... I go to wash my car this afternoon and when I pull it back into the garage I get the message.

 

Funny thing is that it settled at 12.2.  Maybe the gauge is not that accurate. 

[larryh]

You need to take the reading after the car has been off for a while.  The battery voltage drops when there is a load on the battery.  Turn the car off and leave it plugged into the power point.  Wait for 20 minutes and then look at the meter to see the voltage.  It might be easier if you leave the windows open.  It should be above 12.6 Volts.  You could try a battery charger and see what the voltage is after fully charging the battery.   If you have the original calibrations for the BCM, the car does not keep the battery fully charged.   So the easiest solution to problems with the 12 V battery is to get the latest calibrations for the various modules that affect 12 V charging. 

Edited July 17, 2015 at 10:53 AM by larryh

[troylikesbikes]

As I assimilate the information available here on my slightly used Energi, this one caught my eye. My 12V battery in the trunk reads 12.36V after the car has been sitting for awhile. Haven't tested the voltage immediately after the HVB stops charging but the system kicks over to charge the 12V, but will sometime soon when the timing is right. Haven't acquired a cigarette lighter plug in voltmeter to check the 12V system while running, but will. Also located the jump points in the engine compartment, just in case. 

[murphy]

If the car is driven every day long enough to charge the 12 volt battery there will not be a problem.  If it needs it the 12 volt battery is charged after the HVB is finished charging from the wall.  If the car sits for a week without being used there will be problems with the 12 volt battery.  It is a standard wet cell lead acid battery.  They are usually permanently damaged if completely discharged.

[troylikesbikes]

I've got a battery tender which could be employed pretty easily. The 12v battery isn't hard to access.