How does Fusion Energi perform after EV battery is depleted?

[Blastphemy]

Now that you've all had your FFEs for a while, what are your impressions about the car's performance once the EV battery has completely discharged? For example, if you're taking a 150-mile road trip, will the car noticeably lose some percentage of power once the EV battery is exhausted? (I know the car can be a little sluggish if both the EV and Hybrid batteries are depleted, as I had the unfortunate experience of driving a Fusion like that on a recent test drive.)

 

I just want to make sure the car drives the same regardless of whether I charge it or not. For sure there will be times where I forget to plug it in the night before, or arrive at my destination only to discover the charging station is broken, or have to take a trip longer than 21 miles.

 

Your feedback is much appreciated! I hope to close my deal on either a 2015 or 2016 fully-loaded Titanium by the end of the week. Trying to decide if between identical cars, if paying more is worth getting the updated center console (since I believe that's the only difference, although I thought I read somewhere the 2016's subwoofer is different too).

 

Thanks!

Edited May 26, 2015 at 05:35 PM by Blastphemy

[Hybridbear]

The performance is no different than the Fusion Hybrid when the EV range is depleted. There would be more power than in EV Now since you have the combined power of the ICE & HVB available.

[Blastphemy]

Since I'll probably always drive in EV-Auto, will I see any difference from that mode when the EV battery depletes? How about driving in EV Later mode?

 

Are you saying the car feels the same no matter what mode I'm in (aside from EV-Now) as long as the Hybrid battery is charged?

[lonzo71]

Only thing I notice, is when the engine is running and I'm stop/go traffic. My commute is 84 miles a day and I cant charge when at work. Other than that, its the same and has been for over 14k now. :)

[Rexracer]

Since I'll probably always drive in EV-Auto, will I see any difference from that mode when the EV battery depletes? How about driving in EV Later mode?

 

Are you saying the car feels the same no matter what mode I'm in (aside from EV-Now) as long as the Hybrid battery is charged?

 

Its all the same battery, but the system reserves a portion of the battery for "hybrid" driving. If this gets low, the gas engine would kick on to charge it back up, so realistically you should never be without some battery. Unless say the car was on the dealer lot, never charged, and you took it out and floored it instantly before the system had any chance to recover some battery.

 

So leave it in EV-Auto, and you should never notice any diminished performance. But what you will learn is there are times you want to save your battery (steady state driving over 50-60 for more then a short distance, heavy AC/Heat need, etc), or to force battery usage (stop/go traffic, know you have a short drive so want to use as much EV as possible, etc).

 

Its all dependent on what your driving looks like.

[Blastphemy]

Thanks, lonzo71, Rexracer, and Hybridbear. As long as the car performs the same in EV Auto, EV Later, and when the EV battery is depleted, I'll be happy.

 

I just want to make sure that there aren't times when the car becomes unusually sluggish because I drove too far at 75 mph with A/C and now the car can't get past 60 mph or pass other drivers! In my Volt and ELR I was always trying to eke out the most battery range I could, but I'd rather drive the Fusion in EV Auto all the time and never think about the battery range at all. It's got enough juice to get me to work and back with minimal gas use (around 0.3 gallons roundtrip), and as long as the performance doesn't change when I have to take a longer trip, I'll be thrilled. Filling up every 8-10 weeks is quite OK with me.

[JATR4]

Thanks, lonzo71, Rexracer, and Hybridbear. As long as the car performs the same in EV Auto, EV Later, and when the EV battery is depleted, I'll be happy.

 

I just want to make sure that there aren't times when the car becomes unusually sluggish because I drove too far at 75 mph with A/C and now the car can't get past 60 mph or pass other drivers! In my Volt and ELR I was always trying to eke out the most battery range I could, but I'd rather drive the Fusion in EV Auto all the time and never think about the battery range at all. It's got enough juice to get me to work and back with minimal gas use (around 0.3 gallons roundtrip), and as long as the performance doesn't change when I have to take a longer trip, I'll be thrilled. Filling up every 8-10 weeks is quite OK with me.

Once the portion of the battery used for EV Only is depleted the car defaults to EV Auto and EV Now and EV Later are no longer available.  In fact an X appears over EV Now and EV Later.  The car is now a hybrid but with longer EV distance than the FFH.

[lonzo71]

Once the portion of the battery used for EV Only is depleted the car defaults to EV Auto and EV Now and EV Later are no longer available.  In fact an X appears over EV Now and EV Later.  The car is now a hybrid but with longer EV distance than the FFH.

Dont you have that the other way around? Once the battery is gone, it goes into EV later mode. With the X on auto and EV now. At least it does on mine...

[Russael]

Dont you have that the other way around? Once the battery is gone, it goes into EV later mode. With the X on auto and EV now. At least it does on mine...

 

For mine, it locks on EV Auto.  Perhaps they changed it for the 2014s?

[JATR4]

Dont you have that the other way around? Once the battery is gone, it goes into EV later mode. With the X on auto and EV now. At least it does on mine...

No.  Auto is hybrid.  You can't select EV later after the battery reaches zero.  Unless your 2014 is different than my 2013, which I doubt.

[stevedebi]

For mine, it locks on EV Auto.  Perhaps they changed it for the 2014s?

My 2014 C-Max Energi also locks in EV Auto when the HVB is expended.

[meyersnole]

mine locks into ev auto after I deplete. I try to stay in either EV Now or EV Later though, as I am usually more concerned about efficiency than performance. Always hate when I accidentally start the motor for performance reasons. Sometimes I press the peddle a little too hard, other times I am clueless why it starts... but it says for performance.  

 

It is my understanding though that the extra performance is only available when the battery is not in hybrid only mode, so yes you will not be able to access the extra acceleration once the battery is depleted.

 

The engine is about 141 hp (129 pounds-feet of torque), and when the battery is available can bring that number to about 188 (and about 200 pounds-feet of torque)... so that is quite a noticeable bump when combining with the electric motor. 

Edited May 27, 2015 at 11:45 PM by meyersnole

[JATR4]

We all know this but the manual says:

 

"Auto EV

This mode provides an automatic use of high voltage battery power during the drive, staying in electric mode when possible and running the engine when needed. This mode--EV Auto--will be the only one available if the plug-in power has been depleted."

[Hybridbear]

The FFH has a maximum discharge limit of 35 kW. This is roughly the maximum power the electric motor can provide to assist the ICE.

 

The Energi shows a maximum discharge limit of 68 kW in EV Now with a fully charged battery. As the HVB is depleted the maximum discharge limit drops. I don't recall seeing it drop below 55 kW even when in hybrid mode with the HVB depleted.

[lonzo71]

JATR4 is correct, it does go to Auto, but the other day, when I was in trafiic, I did have Auto and EV later X'd out. I believe i switched it right when it was doing "maintance" in auto...so I got it stuck in my head..lol

Edited May 28, 2015 at 11:36 AM by lonzo71

[stevedebi]

mine locks into ev auto after I deplete. I try to stay in either EV Now or EV Later though, as I am usually more concerned about efficiency than performance. Always hate when I accidentally start the motor for performance reasons. Sometimes I press the peddle a little too hard, other times I am clueless why it starts... but it says for performance.  

 

It is my understanding though that the extra performance is only available when the battery is not in hybrid only mode, so yes you will not be able to access the extra acceleration once the battery is depleted.

 

The engine is about 141 hp (129 pounds-feet of torque), and when the battery is available can bring that number to about 188 (and about 200 pounds-feet of torque)... so that is quite a noticeable bump when combining with the electric motor. 

I'm afraid that is not quite true. In hybrid mode, the car will use a portion of the HVB to enable "standard hybrid" operation. In this mode, the HVB is used, then recharged, almost continuously, in an attempt to maximize fuel effeciency. If you need the extra power, for example to pass, it will be there - and then the car will recharge the battery back up.

 

This is also the way the car operates in EV Later mode.

 

The only time you will not have battery assist is if you are going up a long slope. In that case, the battery will deplete, and there won't be excess ICE energy to recharge. This is the time when the FFE (and the C-Max, and most any other hybrid) will be forced to use only the ICE to run the vehicle, and it will have less power in those situations.

Edited May 28, 2015 at 04:20 PM by stevedebi

[meyersnole]

I probably could have stated my post better, I defer to Hybridbear's post where he states that as the battery is depleted the available power is diminished. I still think it is true that when you are in hybrid mode you will not get the same performance as you would with a fully charged battery (the topic of this thread).  

[stevedebi]

I probably could have stated my post better, I defer to Hybridbear's post where he states that as the battery is depleted the available power is diminished. I still think it is true that when you are in hybrid mode you will not get the same performance as you would with a fully charged battery (the topic of this thread).  

Well, hopefully I phrased my post well - no disrespect meant. There is less power available in EV Later or after the HVB is depeleted, simply because the "hybrid" portion of the battery is pretty small (I've read about .7). So there will be more capacity to supplement the ICE in EV AUTO. I use that capacity all the time on trips, when I know there are hills to climb. I switch to EV AUTO to increase MPG on the uphills.

[Blastphemy]

I still think it is true that when you are in hybrid mode you will not get the same performance as you would with a fully charged battery (the topic of this thread).  

 

That was definitely my main question. I'll ask the dealership to give me a long test drive (30+ miles) on a full charge to see if I can tell the difference. Thank you everyone for your comments.

[meyersnole]

Well, hopefully I phrased my post well - no disrespect meant. There is less power available in EV Later or after the HVB is depeleted, simply because the "hybrid" portion of the battery is pretty small (I've read about .7). So there will be more capacity to supplement the ICE in EV AUTO. I use that capacity all the time on trips, when I know there are hills to climb. I switch to EV AUTO to increase MPG on the uphills.

 

Absolutely no offense taken, I was just disappointed in myself that I did not give a clear answer.  

[meyersnole]

That was definitely my main question. I'll ask the dealership to give me a long test drive (30+ miles) on a full charge to see if I can tell the difference. Thank you everyone for your comments.

 

Just beware that you will get increased performance and reduced range... consume more power from the gas tank and from battery. Just like standing on the accelerator has a negative affect on your MPG in any other car. 

 

Only in this case the battery only carries about 1/2 gallon (larryh could tell you how much... I am just ball parking) of gas equivalent energy when fully charged.  

[Blastphemy]

I'm not sure I understand your response above. How can the car get reduced range if the car is fully charged? Wouldn't a full battery give it more range?

 

Are you saying the car is less efficient but has better performance with a full charge, and is more efficient with less power once the EV battery is depleted? If so, then that's some strange engineering. I'd rather the car just perform the same regardless of whether the battery has a full charge, is partially expended, or has been depleted.

Edited May 28, 2015 at 11:08 PM by Blastphemy

[meyersnole]

I am trying to say any car is less efficient when you quick start, drive high speeds, etc. (Just like a gas powered vehicle).  

 

Here are a couple threads by larryh that will tell you exactly the cost:

 

EV Dynamics Physics Experiment

 

and if you have the time, there is a ton of great information in Cold Weather Observations

 

The main point I was trying to make was this is not a Tesla with a huge battery. You can squeeze as much as 25-30 miles in ideal conditions with practice, but you can just as easily only get about 10-15 miles range from the same charge. This will depend on how you drive it and the climate. 

 

If you are looking for performance you might want to test drive the 2.0 liter ecoboost as a comparison.  

[Blastphemy]

You're reading way too much into my question, meyersnole. If I wanted a Tesla, that's what I'd be getting.

 

All I want to know is whether the FFE is consistent regardless of the battery's SOC when driving in Auto EV mode at all times.

 

I'll likely never drive in EV Now mode since I find its acceleration decidedly insufficient at speeds over 50mph, and I don't want to be surprised if I need to maneuver safely at higher speeds.

 

As long as everyone's experience is that leaving the car in Auto EV at all times results in a consistent driving experience, regardless of the battery's state of charge, then I'll be quite happy.

 

But the impression I'm getting is that if I ever attempt a drive to Las Vegas from Los Angeles, the first 20-40 miles will be fine and then I'm going to suffer on the multi-mile inclines with everyone around me going 70-80 mph while the FFE will be struggling to keep up.

[larryh]

I have mainly been interested in driving efficiently, so I haven't collected much performance data on the car.  However, there are five modes of operation:

 

1. Charge Depleting Mode (EV Auto)

2. Charge Sustaining Mode (Hybrid mode when the 2D battery icon is displayed after depleting all the plug-in energy)

3. State of Charge Hold Mode (EV Later)

4. Locked Electric Mode (EV Now)

5. Locked Electric Mode Override by Driver (when the EV Now icon is yellow)

 

For my 60 mile commute yesterday, the maximum discharge power limit from the HVB started out at 68 kW and gradually fell to 60 kW.  I used all the modes (except 5) throughout the trip.  Changing modes does not change the discharge power limit from the HVB. 

 

However, in Hybrid Mode, when the SOC displayed on the 2-D battery icon fell below 40%, the maximum discharge power limit from the HVB suddenly dropped to 35 kW.  So the power output of the car is reduced when in hybrid mode and the SOC shown on the 2D battery icon falls below 40%.  If you don't want this, simply don't allow the car to enter hybrid mode.  Switch to EV later mode before the car enters hybrid mode. 

 

My advice is to never allow the car to enter hybrid mode until the very end of your trip.  Running the car for long periods of time in hybrid mode is probably hard on the battery.  Stay in EV Later mode until the end of the trip and then switch to EV Auto to enter hybrid mode and use up the remaining charge in the HVB. 

Edited May 29, 2015 at 01:41 PM by larryh