rbort Posted May 31, 2015 at 05:12 AM Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 at 05:12 AM EV Auto also raises the minimum coolant temp for keeping the ICE off from 15 F to 60 F. If you want to drive in winter with the ICE off its important to use EV Now. In what situation is this? I drove all winter long as cold as zero F and the ICE never started. Are you talking with climate heat on? I drive with no climate control in EV auto and the engine doesn't start. This is on a Cmax, I wouldn't expect the Fusion to be any different but maybe it is...? -=>Raja. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted May 31, 2015 at 08:49 AM Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 at 08:49 AM (edited) In what situation is this? I drove all winter long as cold as zero F and the ICE never started. Are you talking with climate heat on? I drive with no climate control in EV auto and the engine doesn't start. This is on a Cmax, I wouldn't expect the Fusion to be any different but maybe it is...? -=>Raja.Climate control is off. You would have to monitor the coolant temperature in the car to observe what is going on. The outside temperature and coolant temperature are not the same thing. You would have to monitor coolant temperature to verify if the conditions are met. Edited May 31, 2015 at 09:19 AM by larryh Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbort Posted May 31, 2015 at 06:01 PM Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 at 06:01 PM (edited) Larry, how can that be, the only explanation is that the Cmax is different than the Fusion. I ask because I leave my house and its about 15-18F degrees outside at best, drive an hour with no engine outside and park outside for several hours. The temp drops even further to a minimum that night 0F while I'm watching a play in a theatre. Then around 11pm I get into my car at 0-5F and drive back an hour in the cold no engine running ever that day and stop at the 99 on the way to recharge the battery for 30 minutes to make it home (just like on the way out). There is no way the coolant temperature didn't drop below the thresholds, there was never any heat applied to it via the engine running and I would expect that it would have been below 15F though I never checked it - next winter I an verify it for you if you like. -=>Raja. Edited May 31, 2015 at 06:03 PM by rbort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted May 31, 2015 at 07:04 PM Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 at 07:04 PM You don't know what the coolant temperature is unless you actually measure it. So I don't know if your car works differently. Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbort Posted May 31, 2015 at 08:22 PM Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 at 08:22 PM (edited) Yeah I can see it in the ET screen. It should be pretty close to the current temperature if the engine is cold, I just checked it now after driving around in EV for 19 miles, car outside air temp says 50, coolant says 12C or 2C higher than OAT according to the car. Does the coolant go through the transmission to warm it up a bit? Engine has not run since about 115 hours ago (Wednesday night). Man its cold here in Michigan for the last day of May... -=>Raja. Edited May 31, 2015 at 08:23 PM by rbort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted May 31, 2015 at 08:28 PM Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 at 08:28 PM That's the wrong temperature. You need to monitor the cylinder head temperature. ET provides the coolant temperature in the heater core. The engine compartment warms up from all the friction in the motor and transmission. Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbort Posted May 31, 2015 at 08:45 PM Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 at 08:45 PM Ah, ok then I don't have a way of seeing what it is. I had the vent on you would have thought it would have stabilized to the OAT exactly but it didn't. Maybe there are errors in the temp sensors between the two. All I can say then is that my engine never started in cold weather as low as 0F without me turning on the climate control. If I turned that on even if I was plugged in the engine started. -=>Raja. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjent Posted June 1, 2015 at 12:55 AM Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 at 12:55 AM (edited) OK, since this is a tech thread (seemingly) I will put this in: Using the advice provided here, we took the car for a drive this morning. It showed 18 miles available (it was 21 when I finished charging a few days ago, don't understand where the other 3 miles went ....) on the battery display in EV now, we drove it all electric 16 miles on a loop down to the lake and along riverside drive. Some up hill and some downhill. Stayed below 45 (mostly 35) and kept the acceleration below 2 bars .... I got home with 11 miles left of battery :headscratch: and a "mileage" of 187.7. I assume that is MPGe. Is that possible? Edited June 1, 2015 at 12:56 AM by rjent Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbort Posted June 1, 2015 at 01:05 AM Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 at 01:05 AM Yes its possible. At around 190 mpge you will get about 30 miles range from the battery. 16 and 11 is 27, you're in the ballpark thanks to your good driving :) -=>Raja. Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted June 1, 2015 at 02:43 AM Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 at 02:43 AM (edited) OK, since this is a tech thread (seemingly) I will put this in: Using the advice provided here, we took the car for a drive this morning. It showed 18 miles available (it was 21 when I finished charging a few days ago, don't understand where the other 3 miles went ....) on the battery display in EV now, we drove it all electric 16 miles on a loop down to the lake and along riverside drive. Some up hill and some downhill. Stayed below 45 (mostly 35) and kept the acceleration below 2 bars .... I got home with 11 miles left of battery :headscratch: and a "mileage" of 187.7. I assume that is MPGe. Is that possible?The range estimate will vary lots. It's often referred to as the "guess-o-meter". In MFM you can also assign each key to a driver. Over time the car learns how each person drives & it will customize the range estimate to which key it detects as the driver. My wife consistently sees a range estimate about 10% lower than I do because she accelerates more aggressively than I do & gets worse brake scores. Right now in nice weather I usually see range estimates of 28-30 miles on a full charge and my wife sees around 25-26 miles of range predicted. In the Focus Electric I've been seeing range estimates of 100-105 miles & my wife usually sees a full charge estimates range around 90-93 miles. Where did you see 187.7? Is that in MFM in the Trip & Charge Log? Edited June 1, 2015 at 02:44 AM by Hybridbear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjent Posted June 1, 2015 at 03:44 AM Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 at 03:44 AM (edited) The range estimate will vary lots. It's often referred to as the "guess-o-meter". In MFM you can also assign each key to a driver. Over time the car learns how each person drives & it will customize the range estimate to which key it detects as the driver. My wife consistently sees a range estimate about 10% lower than I do because she accelerates more aggressively than I do & gets worse brake scores. Right now in nice weather I usually see range estimates of 28-30 miles on a full charge and my wife sees around 25-26 miles of range predicted. In the Focus Electric I've been seeing range estimates of 100-105 miles & my wife usually sees a full charge estimates range around 90-93 miles. Where did you see 187.7? Is that in MFM in the Trip & Charge Log?I got the figure from MFM. I also remember a figure very similar (don't remember exact) on the left screen that didn't seem right until I saw the MFM screen :hysterical: So if the numbers aren't accurate, how can we determine how we are doing. I did go 16 miles, and I had over 1/2 the battery left when I got home, so I know the usage and distance are pretty accurate .... :dance: Dick Edited June 1, 2015 at 04:49 AM by rjent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjent Posted June 1, 2015 at 04:48 AM Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 at 04:48 AM (edited) I got the figure from MFM. I also remember a figure very simular (don't remember exact) on the left screen that didn't seem right until I saw the MFM screen :hysterical: So if the numbers aren't accurate, how can we determine how we are doing. I did go 16 miles, and I had over 1/2 the battery left when I got home, so I know the usage and distance are pretty accurate .... :dance: DickOops :D Edited June 1, 2015 at 04:49 AM by rjent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted June 1, 2015 at 04:29 PM Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 at 04:29 PM I got the figure from MFM. I also remember a figure very similar (don't remember exact) on the left screen that didn't seem right until I saw the MFM screen :hysterical: So if the numbers aren't accurate, how can we determine how we are doing. I did go 16 miles, and I had over 1/2 the battery left when I got home, so I know the usage and distance are pretty accurate .... :dance: DickThe 2013 Energi could show MPGe on the dash. In 2014 it was removed from the dash but MFM would still show MPGe. Do you have a pic of what your trip summary shows compared to what MFM shows for that trip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjent Posted June 1, 2015 at 04:41 PM Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 at 04:41 PM (edited) The 2013 Energi could show MPGe on the dash. In 2014 it was removed from the dash but MFM would still show MPGe. Do you have a pic of what your trip summary shows compared to what MFM shows for that trip?Actually no, sorry. To expand on your first point, the screens are VERY different and very limited compared to the '13 and in that vein I am not happy at all. I have not driven it since our "loop", can I bring it back up? The MPG is 999.9 (which is real helpful :( ) when turning it on in accessory (no brake application). I wish I had reset my trip 2 counter, although I suspect I would see the 999.9 there as well. Any ideas? We are planning a trip south tomorrow or the next day, so I won't have the current trip after "starting it" :) Dick Edited June 1, 2015 at 04:42 PM by rjent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted June 1, 2015 at 05:43 PM Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 at 05:43 PM Actually no, sorry. To expand on your first point, the screens are VERY different and very limited compared to the '13 and in that vein I am not happy at all. I have not driven it since our "loop", can I bring it back up? The MPG is 999.9 (which is real helpful :( ) when turning it on in accessory (no brake application). I wish I had reset my trip 2 counter, although I suspect I would see the 999.9 there as well. Any ideas? We are planning a trip south tomorrow or the next day, so I won't have the current trip after "starting it" :) DickI believe the 2016s no longer show any data about electricity consumption in the car. You also no longer get an EV range prediction on the battery icon. You also no longer get data about gallons of fuel used. There has been quite a lot of discussion about Ford removing these features. This is why we chose to buy a leftover 2013 Energi even though 2015s were on dealer lots when we got our Energi. What does MFM show? Do you have screenshots of that? I'm curious how that has been changed. I'm curious how what you see compares to the screenshots I sent you a few months ago when you were asking about the Energi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjent Posted June 1, 2015 at 06:08 PM Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 at 06:08 PM I believe the 2016s no longer show any data about electricity consumption in the car. You also no longer get an EV range prediction on the battery icon. You also no longer get data about gallons of fuel used. There has been quite a lot of discussion about Ford removing these features. This is why we chose to buy a leftover 2013 Energi even though 2015s were on dealer lots when we got our Energi. What does MFM show? Do you have screenshots of that? I'm curious how that has been changed. I'm curious how what you see compares to the screenshots I sent you a few months ago when you were asking about the Energi.OK, here is a screen shot of the trip from MFM. Will this do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted June 1, 2015 at 06:11 PM Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 at 06:11 PM OK, here is a screen shot of the trip from MFM. Will this do?Cool! Thanks! So MFM shows MPGe still. MFM also shows your kWh used which will allow you to track electricity use. The data isn't perfect, short trips aren't recorded by MFM. If you do lots of trips under 2 miles you'll miss a lot of data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjent Posted June 1, 2015 at 06:19 PM Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 at 06:19 PM Cool! Thanks! So MFM shows MPGe still. MFM also shows your kWh used which will allow you to track electricity use. The data isn't perfect, short trips aren't recorded by MFM. If you do lots of trips under 2 miles you'll miss a lot of data.OK, so I can treat this as accurate? Most of my trips (except to Walmar) will be 3.5 to 4.5 miles so I will lose some, but I am not that anal about all of this, just enjoying driving a first class American made Car! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted June 1, 2015 at 07:31 PM Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 at 07:31 PM (edited) OK, so I can treat this as accurate?Reasonably accurate. I have been tracking data out of MFM compared to the monthly pic of the Trip Meter I take for both the Focus Electric & the Fusion Energi. I haven't found any individual trips to have bad data from the Energi, some trips in the Focus show different data in MFM than the Trip Summary in the car, particularly with regen miles and Wh/mi. Here is that file. The big difference for the Energi is September is because the ~200 mile trip home from the dealer wasn't counted because we hadn't done the 24 hour later confirmation from MFM, but that data is counted in my photo of our driving. Edited June 1, 2015 at 07:32 PM by Hybridbear lonzo71 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonzo71 Posted June 2, 2015 at 01:27 PM Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 at 01:27 PM hmm, crazy bear...or is it bear crazy....I think i'll keep mine simple and just look at the site and my total mpg in the car ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedebi Posted June 2, 2015 at 04:28 PM Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 at 04:28 PM (edited) hmm, crazy bear...or is it bear crazy....I think i'll keep mine simple and just look at the site and my total mpg in the car ;)My spreadsheet is not as complex. All I do is record the energy used when I fill up, and then add that (using the DOT energy to gallons formula) to the gas pumped to achieve MPGe (which is not reported by the 2014 C-Max Energi). I do account for L1 energy wastage of around 22% inefficiency when figuring how much energy was actually used. I also figure the cost per mile with gas and with MPGe (two top left columns), and note which pump I filled up at. The "E-Cost" is a special figure I use to calculate what it would have cost to pump the same amount of gas for the electricity used, based on the cost of gas at the time. Not a number most folks would care about, I suppose, but it represents my estimate of what I would have spent if I didn't have an Energi. I have a long trip I take twice a month, which I started in October of 2014, which has impacted my mileage a lot. I didn't realize I should be using the trip meter 2 KWH to figure the MPGe until my 4th fill up, so the first few lines are estimated KW used. My wife has a 2014 VW Passat TDI, which is used for mostly highway commute. She gets a little over 41 MPG on average, and her cost per mile is about 8.5 cents per mile, as a comparison. $0.0633 10602 12 Kwh Pump $401.97 $269.33 82.00 60.92$0.0379 Miles Gal # Cost E Cost MPG MPGe9 oct 14 1073.70 10.46 S8 $37.00 $30.12 102.69 66.2725-Oct-14 726.20 10.40 tban $36.40 $20.37 69.80 58.5910 Nov 14 839.30 11.74 s2 $36.39 $23.54 71.47 61.486-Dec-14 977.40 10.22 126 S8 $29.85 $27.42 95.64 65.1429-Dec-14 933.80 10.55 114 S2 $27.20 $24.81 88.55 62.7723-Jan-15 868.50 10.26 113 S8 $24.21 $24.59 84.63 59.677-Feb-15 860.90 12.27 77 S2 $31.65 $16.69 70.16 56.701-Mar-15 992.70 11.30 110 S12 $38.41 $23.94 87.84 64.1326-Mar-15 873.00 8.87 120 S8 $27.49 $26.11 98.43 65.024-Apr-15 673.30 12.03 44 S8 $36.06 $9.49 55.99 49.2124-Apr-15 778.70 8.36 94 S8 $27.26 $20.50 93.11 65.2117-May-15 1004.90 12.84 100 S12 $50.05 $21.76 78.29 60.41 EDIT: Man, this forum really messes up a cut and paste! I don't think I'll post that again... Edited June 2, 2015 at 04:41 PM by stevedebi Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted June 2, 2015 at 05:04 PM Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 at 05:04 PM (edited) My spreadsheet is not as complex. All I do is record the energy used when I fill up, and then add that (using the DOT energy to gallons formula) to the gas pumped to achieve MPGe (which is not reported by the 2014 C-Max Energi). I do account for L1 energy wastage of around 22% inefficiency when figuring how much energy was actually used. I also figure the cost per mile with gas and with MPGe (two top left columns), and note which pump I filled up at. The "E-Cost" is a special figure I use to calculate what it would have cost to pump the same amount of gas for the electricity used, based on the cost of gas at the time. Not a number most folks would care about, I suppose, but it represents my estimate of what I would have spent if I didn't have an Energi.My parents were using a similar speadsheet for their C-Max Energi which I discovered on that forum. But they got bored with it after a few tanks so they stopped. My spreadsheet isn't about cost as much as it is about tracking our overall electricity use. Since we live in an apartment and pay a flat monthly rate with our rent for electricity for the EVs I am keeping track of our electricity use as reported by the car so that I can make sure we are paying them enough. I decided to add the columns of MFM data to it because I was curious about the validity & completeness of the MFM data. I keep pics of our monthly stats for each car in Photobucket so that I can also see gallons of gas used each month in the Energi that way. And Fuelly shows my gallons of gas used by fill up and the dates of each fill. Edited June 2, 2015 at 05:06 PM by Hybridbear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedebi Posted June 2, 2015 at 07:53 PM Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 at 07:53 PM My parents were using a similar speadsheet for their C-Max Energi which I discovered on that forum. But they got bored with it after a few tanks so they stopped. My spreadsheet isn't about cost as much as it is about tracking our overall electricity use. Since we live in an apartment and pay a flat monthly rate with our rent for electricity for the EVs I am keeping track of our electricity use as reported by the car so that I can make sure we are paying them enough. I decided to add the columns of MFM data to it because I was curious about the validity & completeness of the MFM data. I keep pics of our monthly stats for each car in Photobucket so that I can also see gallons of gas used each month in the Energi that way. And Fuelly shows my gallons of gas used by fill up and the dates of each fill.I had a full spreadsheet over 6 years with my Escape hybrid. It never got boring! I expect that there will be some reflection over time of the battery losing capacity as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JATR4 Posted June 2, 2015 at 08:59 PM Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 at 08:59 PM I had a full spreadsheet over 6 years with my Escape hybrid. It never got boring! I expect that there will be some reflection over time of the battery losing capacity as well.What kind of mileage did you get with the Escape? And what year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedebi Posted June 2, 2015 at 11:39 PM Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 at 11:39 PM What kind of mileage did you get with the Escape? And what year?2008 AWD. Lifetime was about 29.5 MPG. I was very pleased with it, considering the all wheel drive and the size of the car, compared with a normal small SUV at 22 or so. FWIW, Gary over in the C-Max Energi forum had a 2009 FEH, with somewhat better characteristics and FWD, and I think his lifetime was around 55 MPG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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