Tom Posted March 10, 2015 at 03:57 AM Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 at 03:57 AM My Fusion Energi keeps throwing a "low 12 volt battery..." warning message. After awhile, and several warnings I am unable to start my Energi. When that happens I have to manually unlock the door, pop the hood, and then jump start it. This problem occurs continuously, when I only drive via EV mode. After a long trip, where I use the gas engine for even a short while, the error message goes away, for a short time (about 1 day). If I jump start with a battery charger, on 2 amp trickle charge for about 10 hours, the problem goes away for about 5 days. Along with the "low 12 volt battery" warning message, sometimes I get the following behavior, in somewhat random combinations: 1. As I approach within about 4 feet of the car, with key fob, all the lights and turn signals start to flash on and off, until I either back away, or open the door. 2. The door locks start to cycle lock and unlock, until I either back away or open the door. 3. After I enter the car and close the door I get a "key not detected " warning message. 3. The horn honks 2 short blasts. I'm thinking the problem is a defective 12 volt battery that cannot hold a charge, or a defective 12 volt battery charging system. I'm thinking this because I am assuming the car uses the 12 volt battery to sense the key fob, and run the initial on switch and dashboard, and communicate via the internet to Sync; so when the battery is low, the key fob is not sensed correctly and initiates the theft control mode, throwing several warnings. However, I have been unable to find any information in manuals or on line. Contacting Ford directly resulted in no help offered. When I brought the car into the dealer, I get "it will self correct", but it hasn't in about 6 months now. So I'm looking for information about how the Ford Fusion Energi charging system works, or is supposed to work, such that I can maintain a charged up 12 volt battery. Or any other information, or anecdotal information anyone has on having this similar problem and how to get it corrected. This behavior only started about 10 months after new car purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted March 10, 2015 at 09:34 AM Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 at 09:34 AM Take the car to your dealer and have them test the 12 volt battery. A 12 volt wet cell lead acid battery that has been completely discharged multiple times has most likely been permanently damaged. lonzo71, Hybridbear and storksb 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_h Posted March 10, 2015 at 11:45 AM Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 at 11:45 AM (edited) There's a TSB that was just released, related to 2013 Energis - browsing through the instructions it appears there is part of the 12V cable that rubs on other surrounding areas and gets worn and shorts out. The remedy is for dealer to mend the cable and then coat it with some type of 3M insulation to protect it from future wear. Also interesting is that part of the TSB is to replace the telematic control unit, which I think murphy had said something about a ways back, maybe they found that the original ones were spiking the 12V battery with too much draw and they are replacing with a "milder" (for lack of a better term) version. So print out the below and make sure your dealer has checked this cable, etc. http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1248-collection-of-tsbs-related-to-energi/?p=19668 Edited March 10, 2015 at 11:46 AM by jeff_h Hybridbear, lonzo71, Tom and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted March 10, 2015 at 12:38 PM Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 at 12:38 PM (edited) So I'm looking for information about how the Ford Fusion Energi charging system works, or is supposed to work, such that I can maintain a charged up 12 volt battery.Definitely take the car to the dealer as Jeff & Murphy mentioned. You can also get our Ford Service rep involved by searching for user "FordService" and sending her a PM. As far as how the charging system works... The car uses a DCDC converter to step down the voltage from the HVB to around 14 volts to power the electronics of the car. Anytime the car is ON (EV Now, EV Auto or EV Later) the DCDC converter is turned on and is providing the power needed for the electronics of the car. The DCDC converter will also charge the 12V battery as needed. When the car is turned off the DCDC converter is disabled and the car uses the 12V battery to keep the computers active and provide data to MFM via the Telematics Control Unit (TCU). When plugged in to the 120V or 240V EVSE the car can charge the 12V battery as it sees fit directly from the SOBDM, when connected to the EVSE the DCDC converter is not used for 12V battery charging.. You can find more information in these posts:http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1683-obd-ii-data-for-hvb/?p=19490www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1683-obd-ii-data-for-hvb/ Edited August 17, 2015 at 01:23 PM by Hybridbear larryh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted March 10, 2015 at 01:11 PM Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 at 01:11 PM In some cars, the Telematics Control Unit fails to shutdown when the car is turned off draining the 12 V battery. jeff_h 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted March 10, 2015 at 04:45 PM Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 at 04:45 PM My Fusion Energi keeps throwing a "low 12 volt battery..." warning message. After awhile, and several warnings I am unable to start my Energi. When that happens I have to manually unlock the door, pop the hood, and then jump start it. This problem occurs continuously, when I only drive via EV mode. After a long trip, where I use the gas engine for even a short while, the error message goes away, for a short time (about 1 day). If I jump start with a battery charger, on 2 amp trickle charge for about 10 hours, the problem goes away for about 5 days. Along with the "low 12 volt battery" warning message, sometimes I get the following behavior, in somewhat random combinations: 1. As I approach within about 4 feet of the car, with key fob, all the lights and turn signals start to flash on and off, until I either back away, or open the door. 2. The door locks start to cycle lock and unlock, until I either back away or open the door. 3. After I enter the car and close the door I get a "key not detected " warning message. 3. The horn honks 2 short blasts. I'm thinking the problem is a defective 12 volt battery that cannot hold a charge, or a defective 12 volt battery charging system. I'm thinking this because I am assuming the car uses the 12 volt battery to sense the key fob, and run the initial on switch and dashboard, and communicate via the internet to Sync; so when the battery is low, the key fob is not sensed correctly and initiates the theft control mode, throwing several warnings. However, I have been unable to find any information in manuals or on line. Contacting Ford directly resulted in no help offered. When I brought the car into the dealer, I get "it will self correct", but it hasn't in about 6 months now. So I'm looking for information about how the Ford Fusion Energi charging system works, or is supposed to work, such that I can maintain a charged up 12 volt battery. Or any other information, or anecdotal information anyone has on having this similar problem and how to get it corrected. This behavior only started about 10 months after new car purchase.Hi Tom, I want to take a look into this. Please PM me your VIN, updated mileage, best daytime phone number, full name, and dealer name/location. I'll check out some options. Definitely take the car to the dealer as Jeff & Murphy mentioned. You can also get our Ford Service rep involved by searching for user "FordService" and sending her a PM...Thanks, Hybridbear! Meagan Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexracer Posted March 10, 2015 at 05:42 PM Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 at 05:42 PM In some cars, the Telematics Control Unit fails to shutdown when the car is turned off draining the 12 V battery.Un-related, but the 04-08 Acura TLs (probably RL/TSX also) had a blue tooth module that wouldn't shut off consistently after use. So it would drain the battery overnight leaving you with a dead car in the morning.So this type of problem is not unique to Ford. Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhynri Posted March 11, 2015 at 04:06 PM Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 at 04:06 PM All the awesome in the car is shorting out the circuits. :hysterical: That's all. Too much awesome. In all seriousness, though, good luck with that issue at the dealer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 11, 2015 at 05:38 PM Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 at 05:38 PM Ya, it's pretty funny, it's like my car is trying to tell me something, but I don't speak the language. Gets annoying after awhile. Drives fine though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted August 17, 2015 at 01:26 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 at 01:26 PM There's a TSB that was just released, related to 2013 Energis - browsing through the instructions it appears there is part of the 12V cable that rubs on other surrounding areas and gets worn and shorts out. The remedy is for dealer to mend the cable and then coat it with some type of 3M insulation to protect it from future wear. Also interesting is that part of the TSB is to replace the telematic control unit, which I think murphy had said something about a ways back, maybe they found that the original ones were spiking the 12V battery with too much draw and they are replacing with a "milder" (for lack of a better term) version. So print out the below and make sure your dealer has checked this cable, etc. http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1248-collection-of-tsbs-related-to-energi/?p=19668Does chafing on this cable happen due to frequent trunk use? We are in & out of the trunk at least 10 times per week. Today I started getting all sorts of MFM alerts about the 12V battery being low. When I checked the 12V SOC reported by the BCM it says 70%. This is lower than we usually see in the Fusion, but not really low... This morning the alert happened right after the car finished preconditioning. My wife wasn't ready to leave for work yet, so when I checked the 12V SOC before leaving for work with the Focus Electric I changed the Go Time to about when she would actually be leaving. As soon as that precondition cycle completed at the Go Time I got more alerts about a low 12V SOC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted August 17, 2015 at 01:42 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 at 01:42 PM The "cable" is almost directly above the + post of the battery. "Cable" is not accurate. It is about 20 gauge wire. I wrapped mine with a 2" thickness of foam followed by plastic electrical tape. The wire was resting directly on a section of steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_h Posted August 17, 2015 at 02:12 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 at 02:12 PM The "cable" is almost directly above the + post of the battery. "Cable" is not accurate. It is about 20 gauge wire. I wrapped mine with a 2" thickness of foam followed by plastic electrical tape. The wire was resting directly on a section of steel. Is this something that an average Joe can also do without too much difficulty? Can you post a pic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted August 17, 2015 at 02:49 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 at 02:49 PM When my wife arrived at work & turned off the Energi I again got more of the low 12V battery messages. Each time the message has come it has been double. Two texts, two e-mails & two push notifications on my iPhone & Android tablet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted August 17, 2015 at 03:41 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 at 03:41 PM (edited) Multiple messages seem to be in vogue today. I got three text messages that my car had started charging but only one when it was done. The wire is relatively easy to get to if you know how to disassemble the trunk. The fiber panel in front of the battery has to be swung out of the way. I documented that in the thread where I described the replacement of my battery with a bigger lead acid battery. I later replaced that with an AGM battery. Here is the link to the other thread. http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1258-the-bxt-99r-390-is-a-standard-car-battery/?do=findComment&comment=7276 Here are the pertinent instructions. Empty out the trunk so nothing is in your way.Remove the floor covering.There are two plastic pins in the plastic piece that runs across the back edge of the trunk. Pop both of them out.Pull straight up on the plastic piece and note the spring clips that hold it in place. Put it aside.Unscrew the plastic knob at the left bottom of the trunk. I assume it is the lower attachment for a cargo net.Unscrew the plastic piece at the upper left. It may be a cargo net knob or it it may be a simple piece of plastic.Remove the battery door.Find and remove the plastic pin that secures the battery area fiber panel to the upper left side of the trunk.Push forward on the fiber to lift it off the two bolts that the plastic knobs were on.Fold the fiber section toward the front of the car to reveal the battery. The wire is above and in front of the + battery post. Locate the black plastic sleeve with the red tape and follow up to the gray foam secured with black tape.The battery is yellow and the + terminal is visible. Time to get tools, open up the battery area, take picture, answer a phone call, close up the battery area, and put tools away was 12 minutes. This thread has been moved to the "Batteries & Charging" section. Edited August 17, 2015 at 08:57 PM by murphy Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonzo71 Posted August 17, 2015 at 06:27 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 at 06:27 PM Murphy, I dont see anywhere did you leave your address so we could just stop by and get this done? :hat_tip: You could be better than some dealerships and If you are like Meagan, you might even hand out cookies....ok, one can wish..car services and hot fresh cookies... :drool: Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted August 17, 2015 at 06:43 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 at 06:43 PM Murphy, I dont see anywhere did you leave your address so we could just stop by and get this done? :hat_tip: You could be better than some dealerships and If you are like Meagan, you might even hand out cookies....ok, one can wish..car services and hot fresh cookies... :drool:Sorry, I've never baked a cookie in my life. I never helped my mother bake cookies either.I'm about 40 miles north of center city Philadelphia, PA and about 160 miles north of the Lincoln Memorial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted August 17, 2015 at 07:36 PM Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 at 07:36 PM (edited) I see people are still posting to this line. I wanted to just close it out by letting you know what happened and how this issue was finally resolved. My Fusion energi is operating perfectly now. 1. Ford customer service was very helpful in getting this problem resolved. Many thanks.2. I dropped my Fusion off at the dealer, for about 1 week, while they investigated and troubleshoot the problem, while conferring with Ford Customer Service.3. Components replaced:12 volt battery, DG9Z 15604 J: installed (Kit - Alarm/Kelyess lock D)DG9Z 15K602 G Transciever164R7991 KeyDs7Z 4273 AB cap - ScrewDs7Z 9904132 A clipDS7Z 5426605 BBPTM; Handle Asy - Door 4. All work was covered by warranty. My cost=zero Somebody suggested baking cookies, although that was not part of the resolution, I like the idea :-) 5. If my 12 volt battery every goes low again, I may consider having a larger capacity battery installed, but I'm thinking the condition is corrected and the battery will stay charged now. Edited August 17, 2015 at 07:42 PM by Tom Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted August 17, 2015 at 09:24 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 at 09:24 PM When my wife arrived at work & turned off the Energi I again got more of the low 12V battery messages. Each time the message has come it has been double. Two texts, two e-mails & two push notifications on my iPhone & Android tablet. Do you monitor the the BCM 12 V battery cumulative discharge counts to see if they are increasing faster than normal? They usually don't change by more than 0.2 per day. What is the voltage of the 12 V battery after it has rested for a while? Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted August 17, 2015 at 10:34 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 at 10:34 PM Do you monitor the the BCM 12 V battery cumulative discharge counts to see if they are increasing faster than normal? They usually don't change by more than 0.2 per day. What is the voltage of the 12 V battery after it has rested for a while?I have not monitored those PIDs. I was not familiar with their meaning. How do all those count PIDs work? I will check the voltage later tonight once my wife gets home from work. Typically it shows 12+ volts when discharging shortly after turning off the car. How do I monitor its voltage when the car is off & it has reseted for awhile? Does just unlocking & opening the door wake up the right modules? Won't that put a load on the 12V again to run the lights? Thanks Larry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryh Posted August 17, 2015 at 11:12 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 at 11:12 PM (edited) I use a volt meter plugged into a power point. I plug it in and let the car sit for about 20 minutes. Then look at the reading through the windows. It is usually above 12.75 V. I'm not sure exactly what the BCM cumulative discharge counts measure. There are are cumulative discharge count PIDs for when the car is running, off, and sleeping. There is also a cumulative charge count for when the car is running. I have always observed them to increment between 0 and 0.2 in a day. Edited August 17, 2015 at 11:13 PM by larryh Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted August 18, 2015 at 01:22 PM Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 at 01:22 PM This morning we again started getting text messages & e-mails about a low 12V battery when I woke the car up to check the Go Time. I checked the 12V SOC according to the BCM & it showed 2%. Something is wrong with the car & is causing the 12V to drain. The car started when I pushed the start button but all the electronics were goofy. It took a few seconds for the dash to boot up & the chimes sounded funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted August 18, 2015 at 01:35 PM Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 at 01:35 PM Time to open up the left side of the trunk, as documented earlier in this thread, and check for a shorting wire. Also check the keypad on the B pillar when it is dark to see if it is randomly flashing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted August 18, 2015 at 03:11 PM Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 at 03:11 PM I'm happy to hear some of you have been able to get this resolved. If anyone's still experiencing this concern, please drop me a line. ...If you are like Meagan, you might even hand out cookies....ok, one can wish..car services and hot fresh cookies... :drool: I heard my name... Meagan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted August 18, 2015 at 07:07 PM Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 at 07:07 PM Time to open up the left side of the trunk, as documented earlier in this thread, and check for a shorting wire. Also check the keypad on the B pillar when it is dark to see if it is randomly flashing.I'll let the dealer do that... Would the shorting wire potentially be caused by trunk use? You're familiar with where it is based on the advice you've posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted August 18, 2015 at 07:45 PM Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 at 07:45 PM I don't think trunk use would have any effect. Vibration while underway is the likely cause. The wires in mine were laying on the metal edge. They were not worn through and my fix is designed to keep it that way. Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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