Ford May Show A 200-Mile Electric Car This Year To Counter Chevy Bolt

[meyersnole]

Ford May Show A 200-Mile Electric Car This Year To Counter Chevy Bolt

 

The next few years are going to be interesting for the BEV, PHEV market. 

 

I would love to see the Lincoln brand get more involved in this (I know I would have probably been driving a MKZ had it had the energi option), but I hope that Ford also works a 200+ mile range BEV into its main brand as well. 

 

I considered the Focus electric car briefly (along with the Leaf), but did not want to take the first step into this type of car with a 60-90 mile range car. I never even test drove either as once the Volt and Fusion/C-Max became an option I pitted those against true hybrid cars (Fusion/Avalon/Lexus ES hybrid). If I had the option of a 200ish mile range Leaf/Focus/Bolt, I would have definitely strongly considered them. 

[rtshinn]

I want a PHEV crew cab AWD Ranger sized truck.

Is anyone listening? :)

[Russael]

I want a PHEV crew cab AWD Ranger sized truck.

Is anyone listening? :)

 

I want an F150 Energi please. :)

[stevedebi]

I want an F150 Energi please. :)

Sure. The battery will weigh 800 lbs and it will go maybe 5 miles on electric.

[Russael]

Sure. The battery will weigh 800 lbs and it will go maybe 5 miles on electric.

If the battery weighed 800lbs, I'd presume the capacity would be 20kw.  I'm sure you could get at least 20 miles out of that, even with a payload. :)

[stevedebi]

If the battery weighed 800lbs, I'd presume the capacity would be 20kw.  I'm sure you could get at least 20 miles out of that, even with a payload. :)

The Energi 7.5 KWH is 300 lb, so the math looks right. Well, the F150 is pretty heavy, that is what, about 1200 lbs heavier than the C-Max Energi? I don't know, but that would use a tremendous amount of energy, and would have to have a much bigger electric motor - so the draw would be higher. And a pickup would need to have an engine big enough for work if the battery ran down. So it is not like just using the C-Max Energi electric output in an F150.

 

If it were economical, Ford would have done it. They did not persue going hybrid with the Explorer because it would not have resulted in good enough MPG to warrant the cost. SInce I think the F150 counts against the CARB standards, there is incentive to make it a plug in, but not if it isn't viable economically or engineering wise.

 

The thing I never undersood is why they don't put a small diesel in the F150. That would be a killer engine.

[shaggy314]

Well, it is obviously economical... just not so much for Ford. Chevy and Tesla can do it... They are going for the niche market they want to go for.

 

Look at Energi sales, if Ford thought they could get it to work, they would. Until Ford goes with a different energy density battery or redesign the Fusion, it won't work for them. Ford is doing it on the cheap as their business model. I do not mean that to be rude, just how they choose to do it, by not redesign an entire car. All three of the PHEV/BEV use a lot of common parts so they can test the waters. The Bolt is a lot more new than not, so they can cram battery where they want and not hat's left over'.

 

You can tell this was Ford's plan from the silly movie of the engineers shoving the battery in the truck, high fiving, and going out for pizza.

[Hybridbear]

The thing I never undersood is why they don't put a small diesel in the F150. That would be a killer engine.

Dodge is doing just that with the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel and they're selling "better than expected", whatever that means.

[stevedebi]

Well, it is obviously economical... just not so much for Ford. Chevy and Tesla can do it... They are going for the niche market they want to go for.

 

Look at Energi sales, if Ford thought they could get it to work, they would. Until Ford goes with a different energy density battery or redesign the Fusion, it won't work for them. Ford is doing it on the cheap as their business model. I do not mean that to be rude, just how they choose to do it, by not redesign an entire car. All three of the PHEV/BEV use a lot of common parts so they can test the waters. The Bolt is a lot more new than not, so they can cram battery where they want and not hat's left over'.

 

You can tell this was Ford's plan from the silly movie of the engineers shoving the battery in the truck, high fiving, and going out for pizza.

The Telsa S is 4600 lbs, and a lot of that is battery.  The base 2015 F-150 curb weight is between 4600 an 4900 lbs (for the extra cab - the base does go lower), even with the new aluminum sheets. Add 800 to that, not to mention the larger front section and higher drag, and it isn't going to be economical.

 

Chevy does not put a HVB battery in a pickup. They tried that several years ago and it was a no go for sales.

 

Telsa uses a very light body, and lots of battery. That is a different story. And it won't be towing or working.

 

I just don't see it as possible. As I said, if it could be done, Ford would definitely do it - the F150 is their best seller, and they need CARB credits for the plug ins.

Edited March 12, 2015 at 04:14 PM by stevedebi

[meyersnole]

Update on 200 mile electric car from Ford.

 

Ford CEO Mark Fields confirms 200-mile electric car coming (updated)

 

In addition to model E development (2019) we should see a 200 mile option on the Ford Focus BEV later this year. 

 

Interesting section of the article

 

Late last year, Ford announced that it would commit $4.5 billion to expanding its lineup of green vehicles with 13 new "electrified" models.

 

That pledge was widely misreported as a commitment to launch 13 new electric cars—which is far from what Ford likely intends.

 

The word "electrified" includes conventional hybrids without plugs, and even vehicles with nothing more than 48-volt enhanced start-stop systems, as well as electric and plug-in hybrid models.

 

Industry analysts and observers anticipate that only a handful of those 13 models to have plugs; most will be far more modest versions of electrification.

 

So, there might be a chance that some of the 48V system makes its way to the F150 to capture lost breaking energy... not pure electric, but it adds up. 

Edited May 14, 2016 at 05:32 PM by meyersnole

[cwstnsko]

Fitting 50+ kWh of battery into a focus is intriguing, but doesn't seem likely.  Dumping the ICE, Gas tank and exhaust system from a C-Max to make room for 60 kWh would be awesome and perhaps closer to feasible.  Hopefully something along those lines is what Ford has in mind. 

 

On the truck front, I expect I'll be very seriously looking at a VTRUX when they are available for sale to consumers.

[meyersnole]

Pretty sure the Model E is going to be an electric car first by design (like the Volt/Bolt from GM). The articles seem to think the C-Max and bev version of the Focus will be retired. Little surprised by the C-Max as I thought that was a good competitor to the Toyota. 

[meyersnole]

Just watched the promo video for the VTRUX... that looks interesting. Surprised with all the excitement around the Tesla 3 they did not advertise a bit more... SUVs that get good fuel economy? Like that would not sell. 

 

Seems to have a strong GM tie there with the base vehicles, hope that the Ford Model E project has something similar cooking. 

Edited May 20, 2016 at 06:25 PM by meyersnole

[cwstnsko]

VIA has strong ties to GM because it is the brainchild of Bob Lutz, who was one of the main drivers behind the Chevy Volt Project.

[meyersnole]

Reading more, seems like this company stalled. Shame, seems like it was a very good idea that they just could not market.

[Russael]

They sometimes show up at the auto shows.  I saw them a couple years ago at the Detroit Auto Show (they were in the basement along with a variety of other prototypical vehicles).  If anything, that vehicle is probably very cost prohibitive.  Chevy does make a hybrid Tahoe, but that thing is extremely expensive.  Has a tiny battery for that size of a vehicle too.

[meyersnole]

I want an F150 Energi please. :)

 

How about a Tesla model U?

 

http://www.motortrend.com/news/upcoming-tesla-pickup-truck-look-like/?wc_mid=4035:2880&wc_rid=4035:741843&_wcsid=92DC30576A23F7942E39377C1D9156F2476EDFF181CCB79A

[Russael]

That Tesla pickup truck I would expect to maybe cost 10k less than their X for identical trim levels... in other words, too cost prohibitive for me.  But if I could afford it, I'd be all over it.  Wish I could replace my aging Expedition with an X.

 

I'd love to see this offered as a fleet vehicle for city usage.

 

I also read that Tesla wants to do a semi or big rig...  I have a funny feeling they'll have to sell a trailer with it where the whole floor of that thing is batteries.

[Fat Fusion]

Reviving this old thread...  I guess I'll be looking into a used Tesla to replace my Energi.  My next door neighbor is an electrical engineer at Tesla and he said the Model 3 is going to be better than the S in every way.  Since Tesla is now shipping what like 100,000 cars a year, the value will drop like a rock when the 3 comes out.

 

He said when he gets his 3 he'll see what Tesla is offering him on trade for his S, and offer it to me for the same price.  It has 100,000 miles on it now so I'm thinking it'll be less than 25k?

[meyersnole]

That Tesla pickup truck I would expect to maybe cost 10k less than their X for identical trim levels... in other words, too cost prohibitive for me.  But if I could afford it, I'd be all over it.  Wish I could replace my aging Expedition with an X.

 

I'd love to see this offered as a fleet vehicle for city usage.

 

I also read that Tesla wants to do a semi or big rig...  I have a funny feeling they'll have to sell a trailer with it where the whole floor of that thing is batteries.

 

 

Here is the announcement for the Semi truck in September followed closely by Tesla pickup truck in 18-24 months!

 

http://insideevs.com/elon-musk-tesla-semi-truck-to-debut-this-september-pick-up-truck-to-follow/

[Russael]

Saw it yesterday - it popped up on my Google Newsfeed.  :)  The semi truck should be interesting too.  I can't imagine them selling just the truck without the trailer.  The trailer probably houses most of the batteries.  Can you imagine that thing sitting at a supercharger?

[meyersnole]

For trucking to work with this type of propulsion I would think that the charging infrastructure must be built into sections of the interstates. 

 

Of course the economics on this scale with the amount of fuel that is burned could possibly overcome the price of the batteries, which would be quite substantial to hit the range targets. Aerodynamics are also going to play a huge role for this to work, I wonder if part of the "next level thinking" is related to auto pilot and trucks that follow in close proximity. You could then have the vehicles move like bicycles do in a peloton coordinated through some type of mesh networking. 

 

Cool stuff.