Is this normal? Only Auto mode available

[sorinmtl]

So we've had really bad and cold weather for the past week or so. Around -9F every morning.

When I drive to work, I usually use EV later on the highway, and auto or electric in the city. But for the third time this week, all of sudden, the only available mode is Auto, even though the battery is far from empty. Is this because is too cold outside? Anybody seen or heard about this before?

 

[Russael]

Yes, it is too cold.  My car isn't giving me any choice about running in EV mode either.  It was 6F this morning when I left, and I had preconditioned and even remote started before I left to get the cabin as warm as I could, and a mile from the house, the ICE kicked on and stayed on until I got to the office.

 

Sometimes when it's in the low teens, it'll run the ICE, sometimes it won't.  If I keep the car in Auto mode, I'm guaranteed to run the ICE before I have even left the driveway.

 

So yeah, unfortunately, negative temps pretty much guarantee that your ICE will run.

 

Edit: Just realized you're in Canada.  10F is about -12C, so around that temp, the car is most likely to run the ICE.  Anything less and it's pretty much guaranteed.

 

Usually the car will put up a message that the car has "Enabled the engine for system performance."  I'm surprised yours doesn't show that.  It'll also put EV in yellow under the blue battery.  But maybe because you're already in auto mode, it isn't showing that.

 

You'll also see why your ICE is running by touching the leaf icon on the MFT screen and viewing the energy flow.

Edited February 24, 2015 at 08:53 PM by Russael

[sorinmtl]

Yeah, but mine stays in Auto, and here's the bummer, the Auto is only running on the battery. Unless I use the max defrost, then the ICE kicks in. But if not, it stays on Auto, which stays on battery. And  then on highway, where I usually use EV later, it stays on auto/battery, and the battery drains too fast. (normal on highway).

Edited February 24, 2015 at 08:59 PM by sorinmtl

[Hybridbear]

Have you been using the block heater? Keeping the ICE coolant warmer should allow you to still have access to all 3 modes. Below -10 F is when you can only get EV Auto (no EV Now or EV Later). When in EV Auto the ICE will turn on if the coolant drops below 60 F. When in EV Now the ICE will turn on if the coolant drops below 15 F. Using the block heater can keep the coolant warm enough that you can access all the modes.

[sorinmtl]

my problem is the ICE does not turn on. It stays on auto (and auto stays on battery) on highway. Instead of ICE on highway. (I usually use EV later/ICE on highway)..

[Timewellspent]

my problem is the ICE does not turn on. It stays on auto (and auto stays on battery) on highway. Instead of ICE on highway. (I usually use EV later/ICE on highway)..

 

I had this same thing happen to me when the outside temp was around -10 F.  Car was kept in the garage and I use EV now to get to HWY and then once on I like to switch to EV Later.  I couldn't make the change only Auto was available and like you, it was still using the battery, not ICE.  It did show the orange or yellow EV under the battery.

[larryh]

When it is below -10 F, the car generally will not let you choose the EV mode.  For the first two miles, you may be able to select modes, but after that you are stuck in EV Auto.   The ICE will turn on as soon as the coolant temperature falls below 60 F.   There is not much you can do about it except turn up the heat (to make the ICE run longer) or push the accelerator to the floor to start the ICE temporarily until the coolant temperature exceeds a threshold. 

 

See the following post:

 

http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1446-cold-weather-observations/?p=18501

Edited February 24, 2015 at 10:13 PM by larryh

[sorinmtl]

Edit: Just realized you're in Canada.  10F is about -12C, so around that temp, the car is most likely to run the ICE.  Anything less and it's pretty much guaranteed.

 

 Yes, I'm in Canada. But it was -23C, which is about -12F ? :)

Yeah, that bad.

[Russael]

 Yes, I'm in Canada. But it was -23C, which is about -12F ? :)

Yeah, that bad.

 

I was referring to a generic temp as to when the car starts locking out the ability to choose an EV mode.  Larryh has far more experience with it since he's in MN, where his high temps are sometimes my lows. :)

 

As to why the car locks out EV Later, some others have asked that question.  No idea why they programmed it that way.

[rbort]

60F and ICE turns on?  Larry, is this talking about using heat at the same time as driving?  60F seems high, I mean if its 30F out the coolant will be 30F if the car is sitting outside.  You must be referring to using cabin heat because my engine doesn't start in cold temps without heat...

 

-=>Raja.

Edited February 25, 2015 at 05:47 AM by rbort

[larryh]

If you park in a garage, use the engine block heater, or have recently run the ICE, the coolant temperature will be well above the outside temperature.  It will take several hours (>8 hours) for the ICE temperature to reach the ambient temperature.  In my case, when it is -10 F, the ICE temperature starts out around 85 F.   I use the engine block heater to prevent the ICE from turning on.  If the ICE is cold and it is -10 F, the ICE will start immediately when the car is turned on.  Using climate control raises the temperature threshold at which the ICE turns off so the ICE will run longer.  The ICE turns off when the temperature reaches 100 F when climate control is off, and much higher when climate is on.

 

The electric heater in the car is not very effective when it is -10 F.  The car needs to run the ICE to provide heat to the cabin when it is extremely cold. 

Edited February 25, 2015 at 10:12 AM by larryh

[rbort]

Larry, I've been in my car in the cold in the garage, turned it on in ET mode and I see the coolant temp at 2C for example.  The engine doesn't run on my trips.  Is this different in the Cmax than it is in the Fusion?  Must be?

 

There is no way in the garage my engine is going to be 60F or warmer, I don't use a block heater and I don't preheat the car, almost never.

 

Its at the garage temperature which is about 15 degrees warmer than outside.  At 0 outside the garage may be 15F, the engine should turn on according to your table but it doesn't.

 

-=>Raja.

[larryh]

Without reading the actual ICE temperature, it is difficult to come to any conclusions.  ET mode does not show the ICE temperature.  

 

For my commute to work, it must be below -5 F for the ICE to start during my commute to work if I don't use the engine block heater.   I park the car in my attached garage which is much warmer than the outdoor temperature.  The ICE temperature is above the 15 F threshold and the ICE generally does not start. 

 

The 60 F threshold applies when the outside temperature is below -10 F.

Edited February 25, 2015 at 09:40 PM by larryh

[Hybridbear]

Larry, I've been in my car in the cold in the garage, turned it on in ET mode and I see the coolant temp at 2C for example.  The engine doesn't run on my trips.  Is this different in the Cmax than it is in the Fusion?  Must be?

 

There is no way in the garage my engine is going to be 60F or warmer, I don't use a block heater and I don't preheat the car, almost never.

 

Its at the garage temperature which is about 15 degrees warmer than outside.  At 0 outside the garage may be 15F, the engine should turn on according to your table but it doesn't.

 

-=>Raja.

You must be in EV Now. The ET Mode temp gauge and the temp gauge shown on the dash is the temp of the coolant in the heater core, not in the ICE.

[rbort]

I understand hybrid bear but everything is relative so if the coolant is at 2C then so is the engine and the rest of the coolant.

 

I think Larry hit the nail on the head there, BELOW -10F then the engine will start when its temp drops below 60F which means "always" as he found out (within 2 miles of leaving somewhere warmer).

 

The threshold above -10F seems to be 15F for the engine instead of 60, that's a big difference though I do have to say the night I went to Worcester I parked my car outside to see a show and charged it, but didn't preheat it.  By the time I got back to the car the temp was below 10F, an average of 5F and I drove back the entire battery with temps as low as 0F in pockets and the engine never started.  

 

I did keep my speed down to 40mph or below, and used no heat.  I would have assumed that the engine would have dropped below 15F, there is no heat source under the hood for it and it really wasn't that warm earlier in the day, my drive out there hard to remember but I think it wasn't much higher than 20F.

 

-=>Raja.

[larryh]

This morning, the outside temperature is about -2 F.  The garage temperature is 16 F.  The ICE temperature is 25 F.  The heater core coolant temperature is 23 F.  So it is unlikely that the ICE would start on my commute to work this morning.  The ICE temperature will not fall to 15 F during the commute.

[rbort]

Larry, if the car is sitting in 16 degree weather in your garage, why is the engine and coolant at 25-23F?  Do they not cool with the environment like the rest of other things in there or is it due to you preheating the cabin?

 

When you leave, your EV heat is on also, and you're saying its going to be able to hold on by itself and not start the engine even at -2F outside and keep the cabin warm for your 16 mile commute?

 

Are you saying the using EV heat somehow keeps the engine warm even though it only warms up a small section of the coolant in the heater core area?

 

-=>Raja.

[Hybridbear]

I understand hybrid bear but everything is relative so if the coolant is at 2C then so is the engine and the rest of the coolant.

 

I think Larry hit the nail on the head there, BELOW -10F then the engine will start when its temp drops below 60F which means "always" as he found out (within 2 miles of leaving somewhere warmer).

 

The threshold above -10F seems to be 15F for the engine instead of 60, that's a big difference though I do have to say the night I went to Worcester I parked my car outside to see a show and charged it, but didn't preheat it.  By the time I got back to the car the temp was below 10F, an average of 5F and I drove back the entire battery with temps as low as 0F in pockets and the engine never started.  

 

I did keep my speed down to 40mph or below, and used no heat.  I would have assumed that the engine would have dropped below 15F, there is no heat source under the hood for it and it really wasn't that warm earlier in the day, my drive out there hard to remember but I think it wasn't much higher than 20F.

 

-=>Raja.

Remember that the rate of change for a fluid temperature is not a linear function. When I use the block heater overnight the coolant is about 145 F. I can drive the short distance to work and park with the coolant at about 135 F. If I check the car after 1 hour the coolant will have dropped to about 80-90 F. After 2 hours it's down to about 60 F. After 8-9 hours it's down to about 10-15 F warmer than ambient. All my points of observation have been with daytime highs of 20 F or less and with the minimum temp while parked outside as cold as -9 F. I have never had the ICE come on because the ICE coolant dropped below 15 F. I park in a parking ramp at work and I chose interior spaces inside the ramp where the car will have minimal air movement to speed the cooling of the ICE coolant.

[Timewellspent]

This morning, I had the same thing happen to me again.  I had 11 miles on the battery icon and before I could switch over to EV later, it went to EV Auto - but the car continued to run on battery.  The ICE didn't kick on.  The outside temp according to the car display said 2 F .  As I continued to drive I kept trying to turn on the EV later and it wouldn't let me.  Then I noticed the outside temp was showing 50 F on the display.  What the heck?!  I made a stop at Sam's Club and when I came back out and started the car it was showing 0 F on the display.

[Hybridbear]

This morning, I had the same thing happen to me again.  I had 11 miles on the battery icon and before I could switch over to EV later, it went to EV Auto - but the car continued to run on battery.  The ICE didn't kick on.  The outside temp according to the car display said 2 F .  As I continued to drive I kept trying to turn on the EV later and it wouldn't let me.  Then I noticed the outside temp was showing 50 F on the display.  What the heck?!  I made a stop at Sam's Club and when I came back out and started the car it was showing 0 F on the display.

It sounds like something is causing your outside temp sensor to give faulty readings. Have you removed the front bumper? The sensor is inside the bumper. The dealer should be able to repair it for you.

[FordServiceCA]

So we've had really bad and cold weather for the past week or so. Around -9F every morning.

When I drive to work, I usually use EV later on the highway, and auto or electric in the city. But for the third time this week, all of sudden, the only available mode is Auto, even though the battery is far from empty. Is this because is too cold outside? Anybody seen or heard about this before?

 

Hey sorinmtl,

 

Has your dealer been able to look at this? Send over the current odometer reading and your preferred dealer; I'll look into this further.

 

Nikki

Ford Service CA

[Timewellspent]

It sounds like something is causing your outside temp sensor to give faulty readings. Have you removed the front bumper? The sensor is inside the bumper. The dealer should be able to repair it for you.

 

Brand new car with 2,600 miles on it.  Bumper has never been removed.  I did use the block heater for the first time yesterday if that could have done anything.

[larryh]

Larry, if the car is sitting in 16 degree weather in your garage, why is the engine and coolant at 25-23F?  Do they not cool with the environment like the rest of other things in there or is it due to you preheating the cabin?

 

When you leave, your EV heat is on also, and you're saying its going to be able to hold on by itself and not start the engine even at -2F outside and keep the cabin warm for your 16 mile commute?

 

Are you saying the using EV heat somehow keeps the engine warm even though it only warms up a small section of the coolant in the heater core area?

 

-=>Raja.

It takes a long time for the engine to cool down to ambient temperatures as I have previously stated, especially if you park in an enclosed area out of the wind.  When I park at work, outside in the wind, then usually by the time I leave, after 9 hours, it has cooled down to the outside temperature.  But that is only because the morning temperature was 20-30 F cooler than the afternoon temperature and it was windy. If you park in a garage, it is going to take a lot longer than 9 hours to cool down to the temperature in the garage. 

 

Driving 55 mph does cool the ICE down quickly when it is cold.  I see the temperature fall from 180 F to less than 140 F within five minutes. 

 

Preheating the car does not warm the ICE at all, not even one degree.  Only the coolant isolated in the heater core is heated by the heating element during preconditioning.  The only way to warm the ICE is to use the engine block heater.  I don't use climate control during my commute to work.  The cabin is already warm via preconditioning and heat is not necessary. 

Edited February 26, 2015 at 08:51 PM by larryh

[Hybridbear]

Preheating the car does not warm the ICE at all, not even one degree.  Only the coolant isolated in the heater core is heated by the heating element during preconditioning.  The only way to warm the ICE is to use the engine block heater.  I don't use climate control during my commute to work.  The cabin is already warm via preconditioning and heat is not necessary. 

It should be noted that if the ICE coolant is hot from using the block heater and you remote start the car it will use the hot coolant from the block heater to reduce how much electricity is spent heating coolant. This substantially cools down the ICE. Preconditioning using Go Times doesn't do this, only remote starting.

[openair]

Hey sorinmtl,

 

Has your dealer been able to look at this? Send over the current odometer reading and your preferred dealer; I'll look into this further.

 

Nikki

Ford Service CA

There are multiple other ppl experiencing the same auto locked mode both in this thread and Larryh's linked thread.

 

In the thread Larryh linked he quotes a ford rep saying this is intended behavior. Are you saying it is not??

Edited February 26, 2015 at 10:00 PM by openair