Hello and.........help!

[TonyHzNV]

Hello all! My name is Tony and I'm from Las Vegas, NV. I'm a regular member of the Ford Fusion Hybrid Forum (I own a 2014 RR FFH), but I'm very interested in the Energi as well. Maybe there's one in my future. Who knows! :)

 

Anyway, I'm involved in a discussion in the FFH forum concerning the "California Extended Emissions Warranty Coverage" for CA certified Advanced Technology (AT) Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle (PZEV), redesignated Transitional Zero Emissions Vehicle (TZEV) for MY 2015. It seems that many people are confused about the standard vs. extended emissions warranty in California Air Resources Board (CARB) states:

 

California, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island and Vermont (NOTE: Oregon has adopted only the California AT PZEV high-voltage battery warranty (10 yrs/150,000 miles; standard California emissions warranty coverage applies to all other emission components.) (NOTE: Delaware, Pennsylvania and Washington did not adopt the California AT PZEV emission warranty; standard California emission warranty coverage applies to all emission components).

 

Many FFH owners (in CARB states) believe (mistakenly IMO), that they have the extended coverage because they are driving a hybrid. The Ford Warranty Guide states:

 

California Advanced Technology (AT) Partial Zero Emission Vehicle (PZEV) extended emission warranty coverage applies if your vehicle meets the following two requirements:

 

• Your vehicle is registered in a state** that has adopted and is enforcing California AT PZEV emissions warranty regulations applicable to your vehicle at the time of repair, and

 

• Your vehicle is certified as an AT PZEV in California as indicated on the vehicle emission control information label.

 

The emission control information label (see attached) on my 2014 Fusion SE Hybrid certifies it for sale in CA as a "ULEV" or Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle which is NOT the same as an AT PZEV. Additionally, the state of CA allows certified AT PZEVs (now TZEVs) to drive in HOV (car pool) lanes with only the driver aboard. In their published list of vehicles allowed to use the HOV lanes with a single occupant, there are only 3 Fords listed, the Focus Electric (a Zero Emissions Vehicle or ZEV), and the C-Max Energi and Fusion Energi, both AT PZEVs (now TZEVs). OK, almost there, I promise.....

 

My contention is that unless you have that AT PZEV certification on your emission information label like the Warranty Guide says, the HV battery warranty is the standard Ford 8 years/100K miles and NOT the 10 yrs/150K miles that the Energi qualifies for. There are other (emission related) components that also benefit from a 15 year/150K mile warranty in CARB states only. 

 

Could one of you Energi owners who lives in a CARB state take a pic of your emission information label so that we can see the CA certification as an "AT PZEV or TZEV " (2015 models). This would be very helpful in helping people understand which warranty coverage they have and would put a lot of speculation and assumptions to rest. One owner stated that she recalled the salesman telling them that in California all the hybrid components were covered for 10 years/150K. That's just not true. Please help! Thank you and be seeing you around!  :camera:

 

P.S. Just in case you don't know where the Emission Control Information Label is located, open your hood and look in the center of the underside front edge.

Edited February 18, 2015 at 05:20 AM by TonyHzNV

[murphy]

Here is the sticker from my 2013 Energi.

 

 

[TonyHzNV]

Thank you very much Murphy! This will go a long way to helping folks understand which warranty they have.

[stevedebi]

 

Hello all! My name is Tony and I'm from Las Vegas, NV. I'm a regular member of the Ford Fusion Hybrid Forum (I own a 2014 RR FFH), but I'm very interested in the Energi as well. Maybe there's one in my future. Who knows! :)

 

Anyway, I'm involved in a discussion in the FFH forum concerning the "California Extended Emissions Warranty Coverage" for CA certified Advanced Technology (AT) Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle (PZEV), redesignated Transitional Zero Emissions Vehicle (TZEV) for MY 2015. It seems that many people are confused about the standard vs. extended emissions warranty in California Air Resources Board (CARB) states:

 

California, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island and Vermont (NOTE: Oregon has adopted only the California AT PZEV high-voltage battery warranty (10 yrs/150,000 miles; standard California emissions warranty coverage applies to all other emission components.) (NOTE: Delaware, Pennsylvania and Washington did not adopt the California AT PZEV emission warranty; standard California emission warranty coverage applies to all emission components).

 

Many FFH owners (in CARB states) believe (mistakenly IMO), that they have the extended coverage because they are driving a hybrid. The Ford Warranty Guide states:

 

California Advanced Technology (AT) Partial Zero Emission Vehicle (PZEV) extended emission warranty coverage applies if your vehicle meets the following two requirements:

 

• Your vehicle is registered in a state** that has adopted and is enforcing California AT PZEV emissions warranty regulations applicable to your vehicle at the time of repair, and

 

• Your vehicle is certified as an AT PZEV in California as indicated on the vehicle emission control information label.

 

The emission control information label (see attached) on my 2014 Fusion SE Hybrid certifies it for sale in CA as a "ULEV" or Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle which is NOT the same as an AT PZEV. Additionally, the state of CA allows certified AT PZEVs (now TZEVs) to drive in HOV (car pool) lanes with only the driver aboard. In their published list of vehicles allowed to use the HOV lanes with a single occupant, there are only 3 Fords listed, the Focus Electric (a Zero Emissions Vehicle or ZEV), and the C-Max Energi and Fusion Energi, both AT PZEVs (now TZEVs). OK, almost there, I promise.....

 

My contention is that unless you have that AT PZEV certification on your emission information label like the Warranty Guide says, the HV battery warranty is the standard Ford 8 years/100K miles and NOT the 10 yrs/150K miles that the Energi qualifies for. There are other (emission related) components that also benefit from a 15 year/150K mile warranty in CARB states only. 

 

Could one of you Energi owners who lives in a CARB state take a pic of your emission information label so that we can see the CA certification as an "AT PZEV or TZEV " (2015 models). This would be very helpful in helping people understand which warranty coverage they have and would put a lot of speculation and assumptions to rest. One owner stated that she recalled the salesman telling them that in California all the hybrid components were covered for 10 years/150K. That's just not true. Please help! Thank you and be seeing you around!  :camera:

 

P.S. Just in case you don't know where the Emission Control Information Label is located, open your hood and look in the center of the underside front edge.

 

The hybrid warranty is for 10/150K for CARB states, regardless of Energi or not. It was the same warranty for my 2008 Escape Hybrid. Also, from what I can determine, it is the state in which it was bought that determines the length, not the current state. Perhaps the state in which it is first registered. That is a Federal law, no matter what Ford says or does not say. My Energi indicates a 8 year / 100K warranty, but I think that statement is generic in the owner manual. I own the C-Max, BTW.

 

The HOV lane thing is a limited item, with about 70K allocated. They did the same thing with the original Prius. They expire in 2019. I'm not sure how many are left at this point.

Edited February 18, 2015 at 04:47 PM by stevedebi

[TonyHzNV]

The hybrid warranty is for 10/150K for CARB states, regardless of Energi or not. It was the same warranty for my 2008 Escape Hybrid. Also, from what I can determine, it is the state in which it was bought that determines the length, not the current state. Perhaps the state in which it is first registered. That is a Federal law, no matter what Ford says or does not say. My Energi indicates a 8 year / 100K warranty, but I think that statement is generic in the owner manual. I own the C-Max, BTW.

 

The HOV lane thing is a limited item, with about 70K allocated. They did the same thing with the original Prius. They expire in 2019. I'm not sure how many are left at this point.

Actually, that's NOT a federal law. If it were, it would apply in All states. It's California State law and a few other states have adopted the CA law either in whole or in part, hence CARB States. The laws have changed since your 2008 Escape. The warranty guide is just stating the CA law. The vehicle MUST be certified for sale in CA as an AT PZEV or now TZEV to qualify for the extended warranty. This is also why the original Chevy Volt was not eligible for CA incentives. GM was not willing to warranty the HVB for 10 yrs/150K miles nor the emissions system for 15 yrs/150K miles. Regardless of what the warranty guide says, the rules at the CARB website apply. The state in which the vehicle is registered at the "time of repair" is what determines the warranty. Your C-Max Energi qualifies for the extended emissions warranty because it is certified as an AT PZEV for sale in CA on the emissions label like the one Murphy posted above. Edited February 18, 2015 at 05:40 PM by TonyHzNV

[stevedebi]

Actually, that's NOT a federal law. If it were, it would apply in All states. It's California State law and a few other states have adopted the CA law either in whole or in part, hence CARB States. The laws have changed since your 2008 Escape. The warranty guide is just stating the CA law. The vehicle MUST be certified for sale in CA as an AT PZEV or now TZEV to qualify for the extended warranty. This is also why the original Chevy Volt was not eligible for CA incentives. GM was not willing to warranty the HVB for 10 yrs/150K miles nor the emissions system for 15 yrs/150K miles. Regardless of what the warranty guide says, the rules at the CARB website apply. The state in which the vehicle is registered at the "time of repair" is what determines the warranty. Your C-Max Energi qualifies for the extended emissions warranty because it is certified as an AT PZEV for sale in CA on the emissions label like the one Murphy posted above.

It is an EPA regulation, which is federal. Maybe I should have been more specific - the Federal government mandates that states follow either their rules or CARB rules. While CARB levels are determined by California, the law is Federal.

 

Having said that, it appears your original post was correct; the conventional hybrid is 8/100K. Note that my 2008 FEH was a PZEV and carried the longer warranty. I suppose it depends on how "clean" the current crop of vehicles is, since they have to be better than a certain percentage of vehicles for emissions. Well, that is why I participate in the forums - to learn!

 

You can do a search on Ford products here:

http://www.fleet.ford.com/programs/emission-guides/

 

Here are the CARB rules. Pardon the formatting, this was from a PDF

 

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/factsheets/driveclean.pdf

 

California Vehicle Emissions Ratings

All new vehicles sold in California must be certified with one of California’s six emissions ratings.

A vehicle’semissions rating is posted on the Vehicle Emission Control Information labelunder the engine hood.

LEV (Low Emission Vehicle):The least stringent emission standard for all new cars sold in California.

ULEV (Ultra Low Emission Vehicle):50% cleaner than the average new model year vehicle

SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle): 90% cleaner than the average new model year vehicle

PZEV (Partial Zero Emission Vehicle):Meets SULEV tailpipe emission standards, has a 15-year / 150,000 mile warranty and has zero evaporative emissions

AT PZEV (Advanced Technology PZEV): Meets SULEV tailpipe emission standards, has a 15-year / 150,000 mile warranty, has zero evaporative

emissions and includes advanced technology components.

ZEV (Zero Emission Vehicle):Zero tailpipe emissions, and 98% cleaner than the average new model year vehicle

Edited February 18, 2015 at 08:41 PM by stevedebi

[TonyHzNV]

It is an EPA regulation, which is federal. Maybe I should have been more specific - the Federal government mandates that states follow either their rules or CARB rules. While CARB levels are determined by California, the law is Federal.

 

Having said that, it appears your original post was correct; the conventional hybrid is 8/100K. Note that my 2008 FEH was a PZEV and carried the longer warranty. I suppose it depends on how "clean" the current crop of vehicles is, since they have to be better than a certain percentage of vehicles for emissions. Well, that is why I participate in the forums - to learn!

Thanks for the links and info, SteveDebi! I did realize that there is a Federal law as well, but in the case of CARB, I was looking specifically for those rules. The 15 year/150K warranty (provided by the manufacturer) is just one of the things that qualifies the vehicle as an AT PZEV under CARB rules, it's not that CA rules give it that warranty, which is what a lot of people think and why I'm trying to make things a little clearer for them. There's a lot of misunderstanding out there. Plus, over the years, the different vehicle categories have been made more stringent (thus the "ULEV II" dedesignation on my label or "SULEV II" on Murphy's above) and new categories added as we head towards lower and lower emissions. I'm in the forums to learn as well and to help spread the word. We hybrid/electric types are pretty small in number when looking at the auto landscape. Anyway, thanks again for your input. It IS helpful! Have a great day!

[stevedebi]

Thanks for the links and info, SteveDebi! I did realize that there is a Federal law as well, but in the case of CARB, I was looking specifically for those rules. The 15 year/150K warranty (provided by the manufacturer) is just one of the things that qualifies the vehicle as an AT PZEV under CARB rules, it's not that CA rules give it that warranty, which is what a lot of people think and why I'm trying to make things a little clearer for them. There's a lot of misunderstanding out there. Plus, over the years, the different vehicle categories have been made more stringent (thus the "ULEV II" dedesignation on my label or "SULEV II" on Murphy's above) and new categories added as we head towards lower and lower emissions. I'm in the forums to learn as well and to help spread the word. We hybrid/electric types are pretty small in number when looking at the auto landscape. Anyway, thanks again for your input. It IS helpful! Have a great day!

And I learned a lot too - I did not realize the warranty was by the manufacturer - I was one of those who thought it was mandated by CARB. I appreciate your patience while I caught up with your research...

[TonyHzNV]

And I learned a lot too - I did not realize the warranty was by the manufacturer - I was one of those who thought it was mandated by CARB. I appreciate your patience while I caught up with your research...

Thank you for your patience as well. It's been fun bantering back and forth with you!  :)

[crazyhorse]

my 2014 is identical, except for saying 2014 model year, and having revised part numbers at the bottom due to the year.