Oil changes - what is correct guideline?

[howardbc]

The owner's manual for my 2013 FFE says I won't need an oil change for 20k miles or 2 years or when/if I get a message that it is due. 

 

From the beginning, the Ford service adviser kept trying to get me to bring the car in for regular oil changes as if it wasn't even a plugin hybrid. I told him what the owners manual said and he looked perplexed.

 

Finally, when my car was approaching 10k miles, I did a Vehicle Maintenance Report. It said the oil life was 14%. It didn't say I needed to come in soon for an oil change. But I assumed that meant I had 14% of oil life left, but now am wondering if it meant I had used only 14%. I only use the gas engine maybe 0-30% of the time. 

 

So I took my car in for its first oil change. The Ford service adviser tells me I should come back in every 6k miles or 6 months. I'm wondering what the official Ford maintenance schedule is. 

 

I had to laugh reading today's Green Car Reports about EV owners being charged for oil changes - when they don't even have ICEs! One owner got a $50 gas card as a way of apologizing for charging him for oil he didn't need! It's scary how uninformed even the car dealers are about plugin hybrids and EVs. 

 

So, again, I'd like to know if Ford changed the maintenance schedule for the 2013 FFE. Thanks. 

 

By the way, my car is still driving like a dream. 

[murphy]

Service advisors are told to sell oil changes as often as they can.  They are not responsible to Ford, only to the owner of the dealership.  They want to get you in as often as they can to see what else they can sell to you.

 

The official Ford maintenance schedule is 2 years or 20,000 miles as long as you aren't operating in dusty conditions or when the oil life monitor tells you that it is time.

 

The display is the remaining oil life.  My Energi will hit 2 years on April 1.  It is currently showing 13%.  I have slightly less than 5000 miles on mine.  I used 20.7 gallons of gasoline during 2014.

[howardbc]

Thanks, Murphy! It's just a given that the dealer will try to sell the car owner on as much as they can. I don't mind an occasional oil change but was curious what the official Ford position is for the 2013 FFE. Thanks also for clarifying what the percent of oil life means. 

 

You picked up your car one day before me! I picked up mine on April 2, 2013. I don't remember how many gallons I used in 2014 but I know that I have spent a total of $385 on gasoline since 4/2/2013. It has 10,500 miles - that includes a fairly long road trip without any charging. 

 

I will need to put gas in the car sometime fairly soon. I last filled up in November! Just a great car. 

[murphy]

April 1 2013 was the build date.  I picked it up on April 15. 

[Rexracer]

The owner's manual for my 2013 FFE says I won't need an oil change for 20k miles or 2 years or when/if I get a message that it is due. 

 

From the beginning, the Ford service adviser kept trying to get me to bring the car in for regular oil changes as if it wasn't even a plugin hybrid. I told him what the owners manual said and he looked perplexed.

 

Finally, when my car was approaching 10k miles, I did a Vehicle Maintenance Report. It said the oil life was 14%. It didn't say I needed to come in soon for an oil change. But I assumed that meant I had 14% of oil life left, but now am wondering if it meant I had used only 14%. I only use the gas engine maybe 0-30% of the time. 

 

So I took my car in for its first oil change. The Ford service adviser tells me I should come back in every 6k miles or 6 months. I'm wondering what the official Ford maintenance schedule is. 

 

I had to laugh reading today's Green Car Reports about EV owners being charged for oil changes - when they don't even have ICEs! One owner got a $50 gas card as a way of apologizing for charging him for oil he didn't need! It's scary how uninformed even the car dealers are about plugin hybrids and EVs. 

 

So, again, I'd like to know if Ford changed the maintenance schedule for the 2013 FFE. Thanks. 

 

By the way, my car is still driving like a dream. 

 

Mine is a 2013, I have ~13k miles and I have not gotten any warning that a oil change is due.

[lonzo71]

Since i get 4 oil changes for free, I dont wait. I normally take it in around 6k. I've only had it since July 14 and near 10k so i'll be do for another soon. Besides i get a free wash which will help get some of that salt off

[Fat Fusion]

I have change my oil twice, once at 15k and again at 25k.  I'll do it again at 35k.  I just hit 30k and picked mine up in Oct of 2013.  The oil was pretty black both times.

[Hybridbear]

The key for oil changes is not how many odometer miles you drove, the key is how many ICE miles you drove. For 2013 owners, the Lifetime Summary can be used to track ICE miles. We currently have 8500 miles on our Energi and the Lifetime Summary shows about 3000 EV miles. Thus we have about 5500 miles on the ICE, mostly from our road trip in January. I'll change oil soon because I want to get the factory oil out of the ICE.

 

We can debate about engine break in, but owners who've done Blackstone analysis have found that they report a high amount of contaminants due to break in. Thus, I want to get that oil out soon. The next time I will be driving using the ICE is likely about a month from now. I'll change oil in the spring once we have about 5700-6000 ICE miles. I'll likely go about that same interval before the second oil change and then I'll start stretching them out to 7500-8000 ICE miles or 24 months at the longest.

[shaggy314]

I've been waiting for less than 10% to get the oil changed... but the car does have scheduled maintenance, but there is like so little to do the first 3 years.

[mrmikel]

Sorry to revive such an old thread, but I read something interesting in here, about Ford dealers trying to sell services you don't need.  I had a 2010 FFH which I just traded for a very nice lightly used 2013 FFE.  Every time I went for an oil change after I hit 30k, they would approach me and say "you know, I don't see any record of your transmission service. You really should service it now and every 30k miles going forward".  Now, I could not resist the temptation to teach them something they should already know about ther own cars.  I probably taught about 5 or 6 service writers and technicians that the hybrids have a CVT transmission which needs service just every 150k miles.  Love the "huh?" look when I tell them.

 

It shouldn't be, but it is our job to inform everyone, even at Ford, about our wonderful cars!

Edited December 27, 2015 at 01:27 AM by mrmikel

[howardbc]

Thanks so much for the post but I am starting to get a little sad about this. I understand that the dealer's service people are pressured to have everyone have their cars serviced as often as possible, but it's the overall rejection of any concept other than an ICE that bums me out. It's not just the car dealers. It's the general public who has no interest in driving an EV or plugin hybrid as long as gas is cheap.

 

I imagine that Volt owners are also pressured to have frequent oil changes at Chevy dealers. I wonder if Leaf owners are treated well at the Nissan dealerships. Right now, understandably, Tesla is the only car manufacturer who won't push oil changes. Of course they don't have dealers either. 

[Fat Fusion]

Life's too short to get sad about what other people think!

[Hybridbear]

Thanks so much for the post but I am starting to get a little sad about this. I understand that the dealer's service people are pressured to have everyone have their cars serviced as often as possible, but it's the overall rejection of any concept other than an ICE that bums me out. It's not just the car dealers. It's the general public who has no interest in driving an EV or plugin hybrid as long as gas is cheap.

Me too. I used to be a much more passionate EV promoter. Now I've largely given up. I enjoy driving our EVs, but I don't go way out of my way to promote EVs as much as I used to. I don't want to ever go back to driving an ICE, and I'd like to get rid of the PHEV and go 100% EV, but I don't think it will be possible anytime soon. That also makes me sad & dampens my enthusiasm for EVs.

[howardbc]

Hybridbear, I am 100% with you. I love my FFE but my plan was always to eventually get a true EV. When I bought my FFE in 2013, there really was only 1 option (that I could afford) in EVs - the Nissan Leaf - and the range for it was meager, plus they were having a lot of serious battery problems in the Arizona heat. 

 

I am holding out hope that Tesla will make the Tesla3 available in a reasonable price range and before I'm too old to drive anymore. But I am certainly not unhappy with my FFE. I still marvel at the 97MPG average I get and the fact that it charges overnight in 5-6 hours using only a 110v wall outlet. Plus it's only using the ICE about 15% of the time. 

 

While I am very discouraged about the lack of acceptance of EVs, it's not just a matter of being sad because the other kids won't play with me. It's that I'm living in a burning Rome while Nero fiddles. Some day my great grandchildren might say "What was the American public thinking back in 2015 when they didn't take climate change seriously?" 

[mrmikel]

Look at it this way - some event will occur and it will drive up the cost of gasoline.  GM will go bankrupt, permanently.  And we will be laughng all the ay to the bank with our cars.

[Hybridbear]

Hybridbear, I am 100% with you. I love my FFE but my plan was always to eventually get a true EV. When I bought my FFE in 2013, there really was only 1 option (that I could afford) in EVs - the Nissan Leaf - and the range for it was meager, plus they were having a lot of serious battery problems in the Arizona heat. 

We're trying to decide what to do when our Focus Electric lease ends this coming summer. I'd love to buy a used Tesla, but they're still too expensive. I'm hoping that the prices will really drop once Model X production gets going in full swing as Model S owners trade in their S for the X.

Edited December 28, 2015 at 06:35 PM by Hybridbear

[howardbc]

Again, Hybridbear, I'm thinking just like you. I asked Santa for a Tesla S (even a used one), but there were no surprises on Christmas morning. I'll have to go back to buying the occasional lottery ticket which I know is a total waste of my money. 

 

Remember (if you're old enough) that old Janis Joplin song "Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mer-ced-es Benz"? Well, I keep humming that except I change the car to "Tesla Model S."  :) I'm not holding my breath expecting the prices to drop much (if at all) once the Models X and 3 get going. 

 

I'm sure that a lot of us FFE owners also are lusting for a Tesla, although I still feel that our present cars are the best-looking plugin hybrids available. I saw a BMW i8 the other day. Gorgeous car but around $100k more than ours plus the mileage is unimpressive. 

 

Oh, Lord, won't you buy me a Tesla Model S?

[shaggy314]

Thanks, Murphy! It's just a given that the dealer will try to sell the car owner on as much as they can. I don't mind an occasional oil change but was curious what the official Ford position is for the 2013 FFE. Thanks also for clarifying what the percent of oil life means.

 

Ah but you SHOULD care. Part of the ecological aspect of the car is that you aren't wasting oil changing what isn't NEEDED. Hence the oil life, it's on engine hours (think airplane), not miles as they aren't an indication of it's use like in an ICE. Of my car's 38,000 miles, 30k+ are electric. I got oil changes only because Ford gave me 3 years maintenance, if I was paying I'd have barely done it twice now.

[flyingcheesehead]

I imagine that Volt owners are also pressured to have frequent oil changes at Chevy dealers. I wonder if Leaf owners are treated well at the Nissan dealerships. Right now, understandably, Tesla is the only car manufacturer who won't push oil changes. Of course they don't have dealers either. 

 

I think Nissan supports the EV concept better than any of the traditional car manufacturers, but I've still heard plenty of stories of their dealers insisting to Leaf owners that they need to get an oil change. In one particular instance, it went so far as the owner saying he'd let them change the oil if he could pull up a chair in the service bay and watch. LOL

[flyingcheesehead]

Me too. I used to be a much more passionate EV promoter. Now I've largely given up. I enjoy driving our EVs, but I don't go way out of my way to promote EVs as much as I used to. I don't want to ever go back to driving an ICE, and I'd like to get rid of the PHEV and go 100% EV, but I don't think it will be possible anytime soon. That also makes me sad & dampens my enthusiasm for EVs.

 

 

When I got the Energi, I was thinking I really needed 200-mile range even in winter. Now that I've been driving the Energi, I think I could probably get by with a Leaf. I really like electric driving.

 

The two biggest things I wish my Fusion Energi had: Fast (or at least faster) charging and longer EV range. I'd like to use the engine even less, and I'd like to be able to get a DC fast charge, or at least charge up faster than the measly 3.3kW that we can.

 

I must admit, I've spent a lot of time looking at i3's and used Teslas on the web recently. I wish Ford would get ahead of the curve with EVs. The 2017 Fusion Energi is a major disappointment - Still no increase in range? Really? - And the fact that the Focus Electric won't have DCFC/L3 charging until 2017 is inexcusable. By the time the Focus Electric gets to 100 miles plus DCFC (y'know, where the Leaf already is and has been for years), the world will have moved on to the 200-mile cars. Sigh. Ford's engineering is fantastic, their management and dealers are incompetent.

[flyingcheesehead]

We're trying to decide what to do when our Focus Electric lease ends this coming summer. I'd love to buy a used Tesla, but they're still too expensive. I'm hoping that the prices will really drop once Model X production gets going in full swing as Model S owners trade in their S for the X.

 

I've noticed that just in the last couple of months, with the cheaper gas and all the cheap EV announcements at the auto shows, that the bottom end of the Model S used market has dropped by about $10,000.

 

I was going to get in line for a Model 3 as soon as it's possible to do so in March, but now I think I might wait and see what's happening in the used market in late 2017/early 2018.

[Fat Fusion]

When I got the Energi, I was thinking I really needed 200-mile range even in winter. Now that I've been driving the Energi, I think I could probably get by with a Leaf. I really like electric driving.

 

The two biggest things I wish my Fusion Energi had: Fast (or at least faster) charging and longer EV range. I'd like to use the engine even less, and I'd like to be able to get a DC fast charge, or at least charge up faster than the measly 3.3kW that we can.

 

I must admit, I've spent a lot of time looking at i3's and used Teslas on the web recently. I wish Ford would get ahead of the curve with EVs. The 2017 Fusion Energi is a major disappointment - Still no increase in range? Really? - And the fact that the Focus Electric won't have DCFC/L3 charging until 2017 is inexcusable. By the time the Focus Electric gets to 100 miles plus DCFC (y'know, where the Leaf already is and has been for years), the world will have moved on to the 200-mile cars. Sigh. Ford's engineering is fantastic, their management and dealers are incompetent.

 

I think you have some valid criticism of the 2017 Energi, but the claim that management is incompetent is a bit harsh.  Are you aware they're bringing an avg of over 3 EV's to market each year through 2020?  It's likely the resources are working on those vehicles.  See more here.  http://www.autoblog.com/2015/12/10/ford-electric-vehicle-investment/

[Hybridbear]

Ford's engineering is fantastic, their management and dealers are incompetent.

I agree. The engineering of our Focus Electric is better than the Leaf, Volt, i3 & other EVs in many ways.

 

I think you have some valid criticism of the 2017 Energi, but the claim that management is incompetent is a bit harsh.  Are you aware they're bringing an avg of over 3 EV's to market each year through 2020?  It's likely the resources are working on those vehicles.  See more here.  http://www.autoblog.com/2015/12/10/ford-electric-vehicle-investment/

Ford's definition of "electrified" includes 48V stop start systems. They have indicated that the majority of their 13 new EVs by 2020 will just be those vehicles. See this article.

 

The term "electrified" vehicles include not only battery-electric and plug-in hybrid cars, but also conventional hybrids and even 48-Volt "hybrids"--effectively powerful start-stop systems with more features.

...

Of those 13, analysts suggest, one might be a new battery-electric model, two to four might be plug-in hybrids, and the balance could be split among conventional hybrids and cars with 48-Volt systems.

[flyingcheesehead]

I think you have some valid criticism of the 2017 Energi, but the claim that management is incompetent is a bit harsh.  Are you aware they're bringing an avg of over 3 EV's to market each year through 2020?

 

Yes, though their definition of "EV" is awfully wide.

 

Here's why I say management is incompetent:

 

1) They have an amazing vehicle in the Fusion Energi, yet they don't market it at all.

2) They clearly have not put enough effort into educating dealers about sales and service of their existing EVs.

3) The Focus Electric should have had a DCFC option from day one - The Leaf already did by the time the Focus Electric came out. It's still not available and won't be until 2017.

4) The 2017 Focus Electric will be so far behind the competition as to be worthless. 2017 will be the year of the 200-mile BEV, and Ford will just be getting to 100 miles. 

 

 

Now, here's some things I'd really like to see come out of their recent announcement, and things that would get me to consider purchasing another Ford:

 

1) A "Fusion Electric" with 200-mile range and DCFC.

2) An Energi model of any of their SUVs, preferably all of them.

 

I'd think about a Fusion Energi with a much larger (min 60 miles, preferably 100) electric range and DCFC. However, I'm expecting that others will have better options for my 1-car, 1-crossover family needs.

[meyersnole]

flyingcheesehead, I completely agree with everything you just stated but want to add just a few things.

 

Ford dealerships, at least mine, have been attacked by the same cost cutting that has plagued corporate America. I do not think they allow for proper training but it is still probably expected to happen (mandated). So this leads to a customer experience where I go to pick up my car and the service advisor has 10-15 keys and work orders scattered about his desk. He is answering questions from people who are there, frantically entering in mechanic's notes into the system, resolving the billing (they let the cashier go 2 years ago and moved that responsibility to service rep), and tracking down parts, etc. 

 

All three; the mechanic, the service advisor, and the service manager all stared at me with a blank look on their face on various questions I had on a car that is now almost 4 model years (3 calendar years) old -- apologizing that they just don't understand how the systems work. 

 

One of my fears in buying $40K car from Ford is that the dealer experience would be far from what I was use to experiencing (@ Acura & BMW my last 2 cars) and so far that is realized. And this is a shame because this really is a wonderful car. It does not appear like like they are not trying, just too few resources and improper training.

 

When they started and announced the whole EV certified dealer program it sounded promising. Wonder what happened? Ford seems to be in a wait and see what happens mode. I would guess they do not want GM to get too far ahead, but at the same time are looking at the lay of the land and notice low fuel prices will harm this market for the foreseeable future. This paid off, but had gas been @ or near $4/gal when GM came out with the Bolt and Ford was still sitting there with an 80 mile Focus... they would have been scrambling. 

 

It might take a carbon tax to put more interest in the electric car market, current political climate does not favor that approach. 

 

At the end of the day I still enjoy plugging my car in and driving around on electricity. As long as the battery lasts the projected 10 years and it is not too costly to replace I will be very happy overall with my purchase. I am just happy that Tesla is out there pushing this market or it probably would have faded away some time ago.