openair Posted January 31, 2015 at 12:57 AM Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 at 12:57 AM (edited) Got winter tires and some wheels for them. Couple days after they were installed a high pitched whine would sometimes occur about once or twice a day during the last 5 to 10 feet of coming to a stop. It never happened before the new tires wheels. It only happened with high 90s brake scores. I believe it was related to the friction brakes being used to bring the vehicle to a complete stop. This happened about once or twice a day for about two weeks than stopped. A Ford dealer looked at the brakes twice and say there is nothing wrong with them. A week ago, after the last dealer visit, the vehicle started making a grinding noise, largely under the same high 90s brake score conditions, during the last 5 to 10 feet again. It is much more faint or almost non existent if I use L to bring the vehicle to <5km/h before using the brake pedal. The whine sounded like a thin piece of metal rubbing against another piece of metal at high speed. The grinding noise sounds like that thin piece of metal has worn down so more of it makes contact. Or like two unlubricated pieces of metal spinning against each other. It can sometimes be almost masked by the noise of the ICE, brakes shutters/pump, HVAC or the radio. Some have suggested to me rusty brake pads. My 2006 Honda civic does not make a similar noise. My parents 2013 Ford F150 does not make a similar noise. Anyone else experience this noise? It was not the (normal) inverter whine. It is not the anti lock brakes (dealership suggested I was feeling the antilocks when I complained of a noise). It is not the brake shutter/pump. It is not the active grill shutters. Edited January 31, 2015 at 12:35 PM by jeff_h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted February 3, 2015 at 02:19 PM Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 at 02:19 PM Sounds like something is catching in your wheels. Were you able to have a dealer tech ride with you to hear the noise or did they just say "no problem found"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openair Posted February 3, 2015 at 03:11 PM Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 at 03:11 PM The first two times they just said there's nothing wrong with the breaks and suggested it was the anti locks I was feeling. Haven't had a chance to get back to the dealership again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russael Posted February 3, 2015 at 03:36 PM Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 at 03:36 PM I think it has to do with the brake pads. I had some cheap pads on my truck once and those things sounded like metal on metal, especially after driving and coming to a stop. My neighbor had told me there were probably hard bits in the pads that was making that noise and to not worry about it. There was still plenty of pad left, but I changed them out for top tier ones and the grinding went away. Considering the pads on the Fusion are usually only engaged for that last 5 to 10 feet of stopping (if you consistently get 100% brake scores), it may just be rust or dirt in between the rotor and pads. Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted February 3, 2015 at 03:41 PM Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 at 03:41 PM (edited) I just had an idea for testing... If you put the car in Neutral you get no regen, only brake pads. Try testing a stop or two in Neutral using only the brake pads to see if this sound happens at all speeds then. That would help pinpoint the friction brake system as the issue. Edited February 3, 2015 at 03:42 PM by Hybridbear openair 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted February 3, 2015 at 03:43 PM Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 at 03:43 PM (edited) Also, when our brake pads are wet, such as right after washing the car, they also will grab & make a rubbing noise. This is just because the pads are wet. It goes away once they dry out. Edited February 3, 2015 at 03:43 PM by Hybridbear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordServiceCA Posted February 3, 2015 at 08:44 PM Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 at 08:44 PM (edited) Got winter tires and some wheels for them. Couple days after they were installed a high pitched whine would sometimes occur about once or twice a day during the last 5 to 10 feet of coming to a stop. It never happened before the new tires wheels. It only happened with high 90s brake scores. I believe it was related to the friction brakes being used to bring the vehicle to a complete stop. This happened about once or twice a day for about two weeks than stopped. A Ford dealer looked at the brakes twice and say there is nothing wrong with them. A week ago, after the last dealer visit, the vehicle started making a grinding noise, largely under the same high 90s brake score conditions, during the last 5 to 10 feet again. It is much more faint or almost non existent if I use L to bring the vehicle to <5km/h before using the brake pedal. The whine sounded like a thin piece of metal rubbing against another piece of metal at high speed. The grinding noise sounds like that thin piece of metal has worn down so more of it makes contact. Or like two unlubricated pieces of metal spinning against each other. It can sometimes be almost masked by the noise of the ICE, brakes shutters/pump, HVAC or the radio. Some have suggested to me rusty brake pads. My 2006 Honda civic does not make a similar noise. My parents 2013 Ford F150 does not make a similar noise. Anyone else experience this noise? It was not the (normal) inverter whine. It is not the anti lock brakes (dealership suggested I was feeling the antilocks when I complained of a noise). It is not the brake shutter/pump. It is not the active grill shutters.Hi openair, I responded to your post, addressing this concern and others, here: http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/2956-climate-control-from-home-screen/?do=findComment&comment=18969 Look it over; we'll see how to proceed. NikkiFord Service CA Edited February 3, 2015 at 08:51 PM by FordServiceCA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openair Posted February 4, 2015 at 02:17 AM Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 at 02:17 AM (edited) I just had an idea for testing... If you put the car in Neutral you get no regen, only brake pads. Try testing a stop or two in Neutral using only the brake pads to see if this sound happens at all speeds then. That would help pinpoint the friction brake system as the issue.Good idea. I tried in reverse before because that also only uses the friction breaks. It does still make the same noise in N at low speeds. Will test high speed more tomorrow. It may just be dirty, rusty and or icey. It's too cold for wet. Do they grab in the cold as well? I somehow thought breaks grabbing referred more to a lurching or unevenness in the breaking of the vehicle. Going to ask to test drive a new energi at next service visit to compare sound. Edited February 4, 2015 at 02:18 AM by openair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openair Posted February 5, 2015 at 10:29 PM Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 at 10:29 PM (edited) This morning the grinding noise reverted to the high pitch noise twice. Once it continued as I accelerated. Maybe this is actually a slightly different version of the transmission issue some have experienced. I also read more into "break grabs." Breaks grabbing usually refers to the breaks slowing the vehicle in an unusual way. To an actual change in the behavior of the breaks and the way the vehicle drives when breaking. Not simply a sound. If what hybridbear says about only friction breaks in N is true... the noise is not the friction breaks. It only began around the same ~5km/h and slower as in D. There is also a similar, but even higher pitch noise while breaking with the wheels turned at a significant angle. Edited February 7, 2015 at 12:18 AM by openair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted February 7, 2015 at 08:57 PM Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 at 08:57 PM Who installed your new wheels/tires? Have you taken the car back to that shop because of the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openair Posted February 8, 2015 at 02:06 PM Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 at 02:06 PM Kal tire. I have not. I would hope the ford dealership checked their work the same day they fixed kal tires inability to program the tpms. Each time I've complained to ford of the whine or grind I've mentioned the new winter tires and wheels. I bought the oem ford wheels and tpms from this ford dealership. I've suggested the wheels were the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted February 9, 2015 at 02:59 AM Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 at 02:59 AM Kal tire. I have not. I would hope the ford dealership checked their work the same day they fixed kal tires inability to program the tpms. Each time I've complained to ford of the whine or grind I've mentioned the new winter tires and wheels. I bought the oem ford wheels and tpms from this ford dealership. I've suggested the wheels were the problem.What had to be programmed with the TPMS? The second set of sensors installed in your new tires? So, just to make sure I understand, you have 2 sets of the OEM 17-inch rims? One set with the stock tires & one set with winter tires? Have you tried switching back to the stock ones to see if the noise goes away? Kal Tire should do that swap at no charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openair Posted February 9, 2015 at 04:56 AM Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 at 04:56 AM (edited) Day after leaving Kal Tire the a TPMS fault came up 30km into a 75km trip. Kal Tire had tried to program them but couldn't and eventually said they were factory preprogrammed and didn't actually need programming. Ford said they did, Kal Tire just lacked the tool.Yep, 2 sets. No, the weather has been quite bad and I have little choice but to make long drives in the weather sometimes. The dealership needs to look at other issues as well. If they still can find the problem I'll see if Kal Tire will swap them a few times. I'm fairly certain it did not make this grinding noise 6 weeks ago, before the winter tires. I know it never made the whine before the winter tires. Edited February 12, 2015 at 09:58 PM by openair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openair Posted February 12, 2015 at 09:59 PM Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 at 09:59 PM (edited) The 2014 Focus rental with 4 times the km of my fusion does not make the same noise. Edited February 12, 2015 at 09:59 PM by openair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openair Posted March 11, 2015 at 10:13 PM Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 at 10:13 PM Kal Tire had the wheels off. The only thing they thought might be a problem were lines on the break rotor. Similar to groves that may be caused by bad break pads but were so shallow could barely feel them. A ford dealer said this is likely because the friction breaks don't get as much use on a hybrid. Said if i breaked harder a few times the lines would even out as the breaks become broken in. After breaking hard a few times, the whining noise is now gone (two weeks). The grinding noise is same as always and driving with a tech he "thinks" it is normal break noise that is simply easier to hear with how quite the car is under EV power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traumatic Posted March 12, 2015 at 04:39 AM Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 at 04:39 AM In my parking garage at work, I have the front window open to swipe my parking card. There definitely is a very mild grinding noise that i have never heard in any of my previous cars. I think that the car is otherwise so silent that you may be hearing normal brake noise. When it was screeching, the pads and rotors may have been glazed over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted March 12, 2015 at 03:37 PM Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 at 03:37 PM There's a whirring noise when the brake pads engage on our car. But that's just the sound of friction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openair Posted March 12, 2015 at 04:17 PM Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 at 04:17 PM When you say you have your window down then talk about a grinding noise it sounds like you can only hear the noise with your windows down?? The grinding noise I experience is heard with the windows closed. It is loud enough you can hear it over the ice, hvac, and sometimes radio. Do you only hear a grinding noise while breaking with your windows down?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traumatic Posted March 12, 2015 at 10:56 PM Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 at 10:56 PM Only with the windows down, but it is noticeable. I believe that you mentioned that you have two sets of rims for the car. Are they both OEM for the Energi? The Energi has thicker front brake rotors than hybrids and gasoline Fusions and, for example, the mini spare that fits these models are incompatible with the Energi because they interfere with the brake caliper. Check the specs (offset) of the second set of wheels to make sure that there's enough clearance for the caliper; it may be binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openair Posted March 12, 2015 at 11:20 PM Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 at 11:20 PM Yes, they're both 17" rims. The dealership claims they're the correct energi rims but it took them 3 tries to get the tire size correct. When at Kal Tire I had a look at both rims side by side. They look identical. There is no signs of any unusual wear on the inside of the winter rims. only with the windows down, but it is noticeable. Still confused by the incomplete sentence here. It is only noticeable with the windows down? You cannot hear any grinding while breaking with the windows up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traumatic Posted March 13, 2015 at 03:29 AM Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 at 03:29 AM Just that its a noticeable noise with the windows down; i cannot hear it with the windows up, but I have less than 1000 miles on my car. how many miles do you have? Perhaps you need to have the rotors turned to deglaze them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openair Posted March 15, 2015 at 09:40 PM Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 at 09:40 PM I think we're talking about different noises. The noise I experience is more difficult to hear with the windows down. It is more difficult to hear for someone standing beside the vehicle as it comes to a stop than someone sitting inside with the windows up. ~10 000 km. Or ~6250 miles. Ford says the break system is fine after inspecting them. My father agrees it is likely just normal friction break noise that is easier to hear with the quiet ev drive train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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