meyersnole Posted January 28, 2015 at 11:18 PM Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 at 11:18 PM Saw this article today about how Cadillac is going to push plug in technology across their entire line-up. Add to that the redesign of the Volt (longer range, updated styling) and the addition of the Spark and Bolt -- GM is getting serious about EV. http://insideevs.com/cadillac-boss-plug-technology-applied-across-entire-lineup/ BMW seems to making a significant investment in EV with the i3 and i8. Volkswagen jumping in with the e-Golf. Nissan is killing it with the Leaf. Add in Audi, Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Porsche, Smart, Toyota, Hyundai and there is a LOT going on. Charging networks (wish we would see some standardization here) being built and battery factories (hello Gigafactory) constructed. Would love to hear more from Ford on their evolution of this platform, but the market itself seems quite healthy. For me I really hope to see more 200 mile range pure EV cars with better battery chemistry (either solid state or "metal"-air batteries. http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/198462-new-aluminum-air-battery-could-blow-past-lithium-ion-be-refilled-with-water I also hope to see the traditional PHEV with the Atkinson cycle based engine replaced with a higher efficiency engine, maybe the opposed piston opposed cylinder working like the Volt design as a generator. Where do you see Ford and/or the market in lets say 5 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted January 29, 2015 at 03:40 PM Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 at 03:40 PM (edited) I wouldn't include Toyota. They're completely opposed to BEVs. Reality is often slower than the predictions. I'd guess that in 5 years we'll finally be seeing the first 200 mile EVs on the road for a reasonable price ($30k before tax credits in today's dollars). Within 5 years I expect Nissan to run out of BEV tax credits which will put them at a cost disadvantage unless they truly will have economies of scale that makes their cost $7500 cheaper than everyone else. I could see some of the other automakers like Ford taking a cautious approach to let Nissan pave the way with the Leaf and then once they start running out of tax credits someone like Ford could swoop in and gain a big market share by offering a lower priced vehicle since Ford will not have exhausted their tax credits. Ford has said "We could build a 200 mile EV." I'd bet that they're working on it, but they're biding their time to strike when market conditions are right so that they get the maximum return on their investment. Chevy could fall victim to the same scheme. It's not usually good to be first to a market that isn't instantly profitable. While I appreciate the efforts of Nissan to promote BEVs, I wouldn't bet on their long-term financial security being due to the Leaf. Edited January 29, 2015 at 03:41 PM by Hybridbear meyersnole 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyersnole Posted January 29, 2015 at 05:32 PM Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 at 05:32 PM I would agree that Toyota is currently against BEVs, which is quite ironic. If they did not need a compliance car for California they would never have built the Plug in Prius or RAV4 EV (which seems like a great vehicle). Good point on the tax credits, will be interesting to see what affect that has on the market... Tesla will also run up against that, but probably will overcome with scale and superior product. Nissan seems to be doing some of the right things to compete as well, first that comes to mind is to announce that the battery replacement for the Leaf will sold at a loss (currently) to alleviate anxiety about failures. GM is doing something right with the Volt, as it has some very high satisfaction ratings. I really wanted to like that car but it was not a fit for me. Your last statement about first to market is very true and one of the reasons I am so pleased that these vehicles seem to be getting wide acceptance -- hopefully someone gets it right and others follow. Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russael Posted January 29, 2015 at 07:21 PM Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 at 07:21 PM I don't think the public sector has accepted them all that much, but most of the major auto manufacturers seem to have. Chrysler was one of the last hold-outs to avoid electrification, opting for 8 speed transmissions and smaller engines. When I take a look at electrified vehicles on Youtube or other video website that offers a comments section, those sections are usually chock full of individuals who go, "I would never buy an electric car because x, y, z, zz, zzz, zzzz...." And it's concerns that have been beaten to death. They're simply dead set against them. I think there is silent interest out there (people who are interested but don't vocalize it), but the biggest problem that is still the number 1 issue that I've seen, is the price. Yeah, these cars do get tax credits... for now. But if you buy one, you're paying a huge cost up front, and a lot of people (such as myself) needed to finance that added cost. Maybe things are different outside of Michigan. I've seen 1 or 2 Leafs on the road, a semi-decent number of Volts, a handful of the CMAX variants, fewer electrified Fusion variants... saw a Fisker Karma once. While in IL, I saw a Tesla S on the road. But I'd say the most common newer car I see is a Ford Fusion SE with either the 2.5L or the 1.6L Ecoboost, by far. At a stoplight, I was surrounded by 5 Fusions a few times. They advertize all the time that you can get a Fusion SE for 197 a month for 2 years as a lease price (down payment varies). That's pretty inexpensive and attractive. That all being said though - I am happy that electric vehicles are being produced by more manufacturers so people have choices. I'm very much excited to see where battery tech takes us in 5 years. I remember watching a video that was produced somewhere around 2008 where an 'expert' said PHEVs would be available in 2016. I laughed. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyersnole Posted February 2, 2015 at 05:50 AM Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 at 05:50 AM Here is another article on the momentum of Electric Vehicles Volkswagen's Push For Electric Vehicles Gains Further Momentum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcheesehead Posted February 5, 2015 at 09:30 PM Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 at 09:30 PM Saw this article today about how Cadillac is going to push plug in technology across their entire line-up. Add to that the redesign of the Volt (longer range, updated styling) and the addition of the Spark and Bolt -- GM is getting serious about EV. http://insideevs.com/cadillac-boss-plug-technology-applied-across-entire-lineup/ BMW seems to making a significant investment in EV with the i3 and i8. Volkswagen jumping in with the e-Golf. Nissan is killing it with the Leaf. Add in Audi, Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Porsche, Smart, Toyota, Hyundai and there is a LOT going on. You missed my favorite, the 2016 Volvo XC90 T8 PHEV. The ICE is turbocharged *and* supercharged - It's a 2.0-liter four-banger but they're putting 400hp at the wheels for a 0-60 of 5.9 seconds. Amazing engineering! http://blog.caranddriver.com/2016-volvo-xc90-t8-plug-in-hybrid-powertrain-detailed-400-hp-and-59-mpge/ meyersnole 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotLap Posted February 6, 2015 at 06:29 PM Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 at 06:29 PM A while ago I was reading the stats on the growth of the entry level mid-size luxury sedan market in the US. Seems while this segment is growing at about 7% per year the Fusion is actually growing at about double that rate (14%). Which means Ford is taking market share from other manufacturers (Toyota? Chevrolet?). Given the continued growth of the Fusion platform, and the need for Ford to remain in a dominate growth position in this segment, I'm hoping Ford really steps back and decides to design the FFE from the ground up, with batteries integrated into non-used frame areas/floor, more batteries, etc. rather than just a minor upgrade (like the 2015 Volt with a minor upgrade in range from 38 to 50 miles). I think GM did a good job with the 2nd gen Volt, but it seems to me Ford is poised to leapfrog the Volt as the current gen FFE was more of adding plug in capability to an existing platform, (hence the battery pack in the middle of the trunk floor), and if Ford is serious the opportunity to be revolutionary not evolutionary, is with this next gen of the FFE...the same could be said for all of Ford's plug in models and the new F-150 shedding 500 - 700 lbs could easily handle say 300lbs of batteries...I'd bet most F-150 drivers rarely ever haul anything more than Home Depot fare and never take them off road! Or even the new mid-sized Ranger could fall into this category...imagine having a plug in mid sized truck with 50 mile electric range...sweetness!! flyingcheesehead and Hybridbear 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted February 20, 2015 at 03:14 AM Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 at 03:14 AM And just when momentum gets going, stupid articles like this one come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyersnole Posted February 20, 2015 at 10:39 AM Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 at 10:39 AM Wow. That was epic.... almost as if oil/gas paid for that article to be published. Lets see how much data we can cherry pick to make our point. Reading the comments you can see how it devolved into a political argument right away with the introduction of tax incentives. In other news, I found this quite interesting. With Oil Prices Plunging, Warren Buffett's Berkshire Dumped Exxon Stakehttp://www.forbes.com/sites/steveschaefer/2015/02/17/with-oil-prices-plunging-buffetts-berkshire-dumped-exxon-stake/ Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyersnole Posted February 24, 2015 at 03:50 PM Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 at 03:50 PM And just when momentum gets going, stupid articles like this one come out. And finally a response to that article, too bad it wont see nearly the distribution of that first distortion. USA Today Gets it Wrong – The Benefits of EVs Are Real Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcheesehead Posted March 10, 2015 at 03:11 AM Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 at 03:11 AM USA Today isn't worth the paper it's printed on. They love to publish hit pieces on anything that's not used by the vast majority of people. I fly airplanes for fun, and they have a guy who they get to write a hit piece on recreational aviation every few months. The idiots of the world just eat it up, so it sells ads and keeps them in business. Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhynri Posted March 11, 2015 at 04:36 PM Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 at 04:36 PM meyersnole - the comments on that article just disgust me. I keep forgetting my "never read the comments on the internet" rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyersnole Posted March 12, 2015 at 04:59 AM Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 at 04:59 AM meyersnole - the comments on that article just disgust me. I keep forgetting my "never read the comments on the internet" rule. I think it is good to understand what the thoughts are around a topic, I often find the comment section more interesting than the article itself. Just don't take it personal. Sometimes you do learn something when somebody who does understand the subject matter comes in to try and contribute to the discussion on points not discussed by the author. Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted March 22, 2015 at 09:26 PM Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 at 09:26 PM Interesting article about EVs reducing the urban heat island effect. lonzo71 and meyersnole 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonzo71 Posted March 23, 2015 at 03:02 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 at 03:02 PM That is interesting, I wonder if more light will hit that study... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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