openair Posted June 28, 2015 at 02:31 PM Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 at 02:31 PM (edited) Go times benefit both the passenger and the battery. The difference Stevedebi refers to when compared to the volt is that the fusion energi uses the cabin air to cool the battery. This is the main source of cooling and therefore a big reason to use precondition besides any benefit to the passenger.The volt has independent cooling for just the battery and therefore wouldn't benefit from preconditioning the cabin as much. The volt would still benefit from preconditioning, if it had such option, as there would be less demand from the battery after the plug is removed to condition the cabin for the benefit of the passengers.Imo the best vehicle, that would get the most range from an identical battery, would use both preconditioning and independent battery cooling. There are also other differences between preconditioning and remote starting besides scheduling. Preconditioning uses only net power available from the plug to condition the cabin. A remote start will use any power that is available, as necessary. Including the ICE. Edited June 28, 2015 at 03:35 PM by openair jeff_h and Hybridbear 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seadiel Posted July 2, 2015 at 05:54 AM Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 at 05:54 AM Will the new volt have memory seats yet or adaptive cruise control options? I would rather have those options then a 5th seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_h Posted July 2, 2015 at 11:00 AM Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 at 11:00 AM (edited) Will the new volt have memory seats yet or adaptive cruise control options? I would rather have those options then a 5th seat. Unfortunately the 2016 model doesn't offer power/memory seats, nor will it have adaptive cruise. However it will have collision warning and indicator of following distance behind the vehicle in front (so like others have noted, if it already will have the sensors to note the distance why didn't they just incorporate the speed control to make adaptive cruise?) - however it will have automatic braking, which is good. So bottom line is that the Volt has far better EV range due to the HVB being 2½ times the capacity of the Energi, however for the other amenities (such as the above, and offering a sunroof too) the Energi comes out ahead. So it's a matter of how much weight a prospective purchaser places on the range vs the other things, and buy which one works for him/her. Added - it also appears that the Gen 1 Volt does not have the capability to go to their web site or mobile app and see the current location of the car, as the MFM site or app does. Unknown if the Gen 2 2016 model will have that, as that has been pretty handy to use the MFM site on seeing where there car is located (even if it does show my car out in the ocean every few months as noted in the "location not accurate" thread). Edited July 3, 2015 at 03:02 PM by jeff_h Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhynri Posted July 5, 2015 at 02:48 PM Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 at 02:48 PM jeff_h - I can confirm Gen1 Volt has location (For 2012 MY with Nav, anyway). But the OnStar app is a slow piece of garbage. I don't need to know my remaining gallons of fuel or my tire pressure, Chevy, just update the charge state and location in less than 3 minutes, please.The FFE is the far superior car for any sort of distance driving. If you can keep it on the electrons, the Volt is fun for short town trips. It doesn't hold a candle to Ford anything in comfort, quality, and features, though. Even the backup camera on my wife's Volt is trash. And the Volt never shut the @#$* up. They are always beeping, booping, or dinging at you. That said, I wish the Fusion had a warble button on the stalk like the Volt does. It's too much fun to do that at people to say hi. It's not a sound a car usually makes. (For those not in the know, it makes the horn sound about 6 times really fast at about half volume.) jeff_h 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_h Posted July 5, 2015 at 06:00 PM Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 at 06:00 PM jeff_h - I can confirm Gen1 Volt has location (For 2012 MY with Nav, anyway). But the OnStar app is a slow piece of garbage. I don't need to know my remaining gallons of fuel or my tire pressure, Chevy, just update the charge state and location in less than 3 minutes, please. OK, thanks for the clarification -- I was reading a thread on the Volt forum and saw one post in a "wish list" type topic how he wish he could see his car's location, and then another owner chimeed in to agree that yes it sure would be nice. I wonder if maybe there's a difference if the car has the navigation option. I've see complaints over there about the OnStar app and that it wasn't the best, but then again there are several threads here about the MFM not working properly, so obviously neither is perfect. Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhynri Posted August 18, 2015 at 09:50 PM Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 at 09:50 PM Well. Let me put it this way. We've stopped using the OnStar app because it is so bad it takes less time to walk to the car and check out the charge state manually. If MFM is Windows 8, OnStar is Windows ME. It is terrible. Terrible terrible terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FusionNAZ Posted September 29, 2015 at 01:05 AM Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 at 01:05 AM (edited) I am fairly new to the plug in car community and I really do not see much to compare the Ford Fusion Energi to a Volt other than they both plug in. I took a test drive in the Volt and the seats are like rocks and the interior was nothing but cheap plastic.Saying the volt is a midsize car is kinda pushing it. Below are the dimensions of both cars from 2013. From what I have been reading the new Volt will be more luxurious and look nicer. For the money, comfort and feature list Ford really has done well. Nothing against Chevrolet owners but the Fusion is just a lot more car for the money (minus the EV range). 2013 Ford Fusion Energi SE Luxury 2013 Chevrolet Volt Base Exterior length 177.1 " 191.8 " Exterior body width 72.9 " 70.4 " Exterior height 58.0 " 56.6 " Edited September 29, 2015 at 01:08 AM by FusionNAZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybridbear Posted September 29, 2015 at 02:10 PM Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 at 02:10 PM Nothing against Chevrolet owners but the Fusion is just a lot more car for the money (minus the EV range).This is the exact conclusion that many of us have come to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastphemy Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:20 PM Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 at 06:20 PM It depends what you're looking for. If a potential customer wants robust acceleration without using the gas engine, wants 50 miles of all-EV range per charge, and doesn't ever anticipate ferrying more than 4 people in the car at any given time, then the Volt wins hands down. But if one wants comfortable seating for 5, cooled front seats, adaptive cruise control, powered memory seats, a high-end rear vision camera, a high-end sound system, and doesn't need much trunk space, then the Fusion Energi wins hands down. The 2016 Cadillac ELR comes close to having all of the above. It lacks seating for 5 and cooled front seats, but its adaptive cruise and sound system are much better than Ford's. And of the three, the ELR is the best looking, IMHO. The improvements Cadillac made from the 2014 model year are significant enough that if I were in the market for a new plug-in hybrid right now, that might be the one I'd choose. But then there's C.U.E....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedebi Posted September 29, 2015 at 07:16 PM Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 at 07:16 PM It depends what you're looking for. If a potential customer wants robust acceleration without using the gas engine, wants 50 miles of all-EV range per charge, and doesn't ever anticipate ferrying more than 4 people in the car at any given time, then the Volt wins hands down. But if one wants comfortable seating for 5, cooled front seats, adaptive cruise control, powered memory seats, a high-end rear vision camera, a high-end sound system, and doesn't need much trunk space, then the Fusion Energi wins hands down. The 2016 Cadillac ELR comes close to having all of the above. It lacks seating for 5 and cooled front seats, but its adaptive cruise and sound system are much better than Ford's. And of the three, the ELR is the best looking, IMHO. The improvements Cadillac made from the 2014 model year are significant enough that if I were in the market for a new plug-in hybrid right now, that might be the one I'd choose. But then there's C.U.E....!Isn't the ELR more expensive? Starts at 65K, I think, whereas the FFE tops out at 45K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyersnole Posted October 1, 2015 at 04:54 AM Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 at 04:54 AM Isn't the ELR more expensive? Starts at 65K, I think, whereas the FFE tops out at 45K. That is what GM priced the car at but it is not selling for that. Just check autotrader and you can find many examples of used ELRs in the mid to low 40s with hardly any miles on them. (Some under $40K) http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/Used+Cars/Cadillac/ELR/Cary+NC-27513?endYear=2016&listingType=used&listingTypes=used,certified&makeCode1=CAD&mmt=%5BCAD%5BCADELR%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&modelCode1=CADELR&searchRadius=0&showcaseListingId=407007674&showcaseOwnerId=72160&startYear=1981&Log=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedebi Posted October 1, 2015 at 03:57 PM Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 at 03:57 PM (edited) That is what GM priced the car at but it is not selling for that. Just check autotrader and you can find many examples of used ELRs in the mid to low 40s with hardly any miles on them. (Some under $40K) http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/Used+Cars/Cadillac/ELR/Cary+NC-27513?endYear=2016&listingType=used&listingTypes=used,certified&makeCode1=CAD&mmt=%5BCAD%5BCADELR%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&modelCode1=CADELR&searchRadius=0&showcaseListingId=407007674&showcaseOwnerId=72160&startYear=1981&Log=0Oh, you are talking about a USED model. Well, I believe the used FFE is in the mid 20s at those same miles and years. EDIT: I just checked the specs. The highway cruising range is only 325 miles. Sometimes I forget that other cars won't get the 450 miles or more that the Fords get. That would get pretty tiresome on a long drive. But then the car is primarily intended for in town use. Edited October 1, 2015 at 04:03 PM by stevedebi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyersnole Posted October 1, 2015 at 06:24 PM Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 at 06:24 PM Sure, but some of those USED cars have less than 1,000 miles on them. I did state in my post used. Never driven one before, not sure if I would be interested in one... was not an option at the time I was looking and the price tag would have completely put me off. If I was shopping at that price I would have been looking at Tesla... not sure what GM was thinking when they made that car. Anyway... if you really wanted one then slightly used would probably be the best way to go... less than 5,000 miles and nearly 40% depreciation from the sticker... not sure what they sell for new but I bet its not sticker and not in large numbers. Given the number of them available with low mileage I would be worried why people are ready to part with it at so much of a loss that soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastphemy Posted October 1, 2015 at 06:32 PM Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 at 06:32 PM (edited) Isn't the ELR more expensive? Starts at 65K, I think, whereas the FFE tops out at 45K. That is what GM priced the car at but it is not selling for that. Just check autotrader and you can find many examples of used ELRs in the mid to low 40s with hardly any miles on them. (Some under $40K) The 2014 ELR sold for an MSRP of $75,995, topping out at around $84k. But while the first 20-30 sold at close to that MSRP, the rest sold on a perpetual downward curve, hitting a bottom of about $30-40k off MSRP for a brand new 2014 ELR from late 2014 through today. The new 2016 ELR sells for an MSRP of $65,000, topping out at around $72k. So far, we haven't seen any dealer discounts on the newer model. It's a LOT better than the 2014 model, so perhaps Cadillac has found its sweet spot? Edited October 1, 2015 at 06:32 PM by Blastphemy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedebi Posted October 2, 2015 at 05:00 PM Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 at 05:00 PM Sure, but some of those USED cars have less than 1,000 miles on them. I did state in my post used. Never driven one before, not sure if I would be interested in one... was not an option at the time I was looking and the price tag would have completely put me off. If I was shopping at that price I would have been looking at Tesla... not sure what GM was thinking when they made that car. Anyway... if you really wanted one then slightly used would probably be the best way to go... less than 5,000 miles and nearly 40% depreciation from the sticker... not sure what they sell for new but I bet its not sticker and not in large numbers. Given the number of them available with low mileage I would be worried why people are ready to part with it at so much of a loss that soon... Yeah, always the question with a low mileage used car. Sorry, I missed the "used" part in your OP. So basically the Caddie is a Volt with some extra options? Seems to be the same drivetrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openair Posted October 2, 2015 at 05:44 PM Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 at 05:44 PM The Caddie ELR is a luxury 2 door coup version of the volt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyersnole Posted October 2, 2015 at 10:46 PM Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 at 10:46 PM Yeah, always the question with a low mileage used car. Sorry, I missed the "used" part in your OP. So basically the Caddie is a Volt with some extra options? Seems to be the same drivetrain. Yes, but I think that the power and suspension are significantly upgraded. And one of the options you can get is the adaptive cruise. Don't know much about them though, no way I would drop that kind of money on that type of car. http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2013/07/cadillac-elr-suspension-and-steering.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_h Posted October 21, 2015 at 09:37 PM Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 at 09:37 PM Don't know much about them though, no way I would drop that kind of money on that type of car. Well I would, as if it only boiled down to money I never would have bought the Energi in the first place. I had been looking at one for months and ordered it back in August - estimated 53 miles EV range and I have a 53 mile commute. This morning's commute was all EV with 10 miles left in HVB, and both afternoons (which always had better MPG) thus far have been all EV with 19 miles left in HVB. So that was with good weather, hopefully I can keep to EV only on all but the coldest days, we shall see. But I won't be using much gas at all as I charge near work for free. I was looking for more EV miles but also have times where limited range of a BEV is a show-stopper, so this car was the perfect combo for me. So now we are back down to a 1-Energi household, and I think we're keeping hers for several more years. Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyersnole Posted October 21, 2015 at 09:48 PM Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 at 09:48 PM If you get a slightly used ELR, most of the depreciation hit will have already have happened. You will still have to find a buyer for the car though when you decide to move on. If you don't mind dropping 80K on a car, why not a slightly used Tesla with the supercharger package? http://www.teslamotors.com/models/preowned/p53322 Resale on the Tesla would be much easier I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_h Posted October 21, 2015 at 10:06 PM Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 at 10:06 PM I drive about 35k miles per year which kills resale value anyway, and not interested in a Tesla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyersnole Posted October 21, 2015 at 10:14 PM Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 at 10:14 PM Wow. If I drove that much, I would want a nice comfortable car as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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