Value Charge Oddities

[openair]

I live in Ontario, Canada.  My utility is not listed.  I have custom value charge profiles set.  Weekdays 7am to 7pm is set to the max "$$$$$$." Outside that, weekdays, and weekends are set to "$."  I often told my vehicle to charge now Friday afternoon because I needed the battery topped off before a weekend trip or afternoon trip.  It now seems that was unnecessary or the vehicle has learned my habits but in an odd way.

 

Last Friday it charged Friday afternoon.  At the time, I figured the system considered Friday a weekend and shrugged it off.  Today it did the same.  Topping off the battery between 12:00 noon and 3pm.  When I got back at 430pm, after depleting all EV range, it is now waiting to charge until 7pm for a value charge.

 

This is very strange.  Does it learn charge habits? And override value charge to accommodate habit? Or is there something else going on?

 

Edit: Pretty sure I remember at least one occasion I forgot to charge now on a Friday and it did not charge. As expected.

 

Checked the charge log, 0% value charge for those two Friday afternoon charges.  Suggesting it does learn and is overriding the value charge profiles.  While this is usually convenient, there are some Friday afternoons where I would prefer it wait until the value charge window.  But it seems the only way to ensure this is to not plug it in those Fridays. 

 

I should double check, at the vehicle, that it is syncing value charge profiles correctly.

Edited November 21, 2014 at 10:43 PM by openair

[larryh]

See this post:  http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1016-new-myford-mobile-release/?p=4991.

 

Each of the five different value charge windows must have a different cost. 

Edited November 21, 2014 at 11:17 PM by larryh

[openair]

That's extremely counterintuitive.  Wouldn't I experience more odd behavior than only Friday if this was the case? Why does it work as expected everyday but Friday?

Edited November 22, 2014 at 12:13 AM by openair

[larryh]

On Friday, Value Charge uses the weekday schedule until 12:00 midnight.  Then from midnight on, it uses the weekend schedule.  For the other weekdays, only the weekday schedule is used.  The choice of value charge windows at night into the morning is different on Friday than the other weekdays.

Edited November 22, 2014 at 12:22 AM by larryh

[openair]

That's because 1 minute after midnight friday is now Saturday.  The weekend.  The only time I experience out of value charge charging is between 12 noon Friday and sometime before 4:30pm.

 

In the linked thread you state unless you choose 5 different window MFM will do it for you.  Where do you see MFM doing it for you?  When I create a schedule with 4 windows at the lowest and one at the highest, it is shown that way everywhere MFM displays the schedule.

Edited November 22, 2014 at 12:39 AM by openair

[larryh]

It looks at the value charge windows from the time you plug into until the next GO time.  It likes the ones on Friday afternoon better than those after midnight. You need to set the windows to different heights to have control over when value charging occurs.  Otherwise, it is going to do it for you and it is not doing what you want. 

[openair]

So you can't see this schedule anywhere? It just does it? That thread seems lacking when talking about instances of the vehicle charging out of value charge.  All I see is you saying you have to create 5 different priorities and then examples if it charging to these priorities.  Then discussion about draw to charge the 12v. 

 

What evidence do you draw from the conclusion you have to create 5 different priority windows?  That two windows cannot have the same priority?

Edited November 22, 2014 at 12:57 AM by openair

[openair]

Well I feel dumb.  The real reason is my Friday go time was set for 640pm instead of 640am.  Must have forgot to switch the am/pm back couple weeks ago.

 

Maybe the 2013 energi's or the version of MFM larryh was using when he posted the linked thread in june 2013 worked as he describes but, until my now explained issue today, I have had zero issues with multiple windows set to the same priority on the value charging schedules.

[larryh]

So you can't see this schedule anywhere? It just does it? That thread seems lacking when talking about instances of the vehicle charging out of value charge.  All I see is you saying you have to create 5 different priorities and then examples if it charging to these priorities.  Then discussion about draw to charge the 12v. 

 

What evidence do you draw from the conclusion you have to create 5 different priority windows?  That two windows cannot have the same priority?

 

See this post.  It shows the cost of each value charge window.  This is the first window that pops up when you edit a Value Charge Profile.

 

http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1196-frustrated-with-the-value-charge-feature/?p=6360

 

 

I do not like how value charge works, so I use a timer instead:

 

http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/710-what-level-2-charger-did-you-buyinstall/?p=7072

Edited November 22, 2014 at 01:43 PM by larryh

[openair]

Yep and as I stated above, for me, that windows shows only the lightest green and darkest green just as I have set it up. I have no issues with multiple windows set to the same priority.  The entire weekend is one color.  The lightest green.

Edited November 22, 2014 at 03:01 PM by openair

[larryh]

Ford has had many bugs with MFM.  Hopefully they are finally fixing them, including the many problems that they initially had with Value Charge.

Edited November 22, 2014 at 04:06 PM by larryh

[Hybridbear]

I'm glad to hear that there's no issue with your car. My immediate thought upon reading the first few posts was that this sounded like a Go Time was affecting the decision made by the car about when to charge.

[Hybridbear]

We've had some strange Value Charge behavior recently. Sunday we drove the Fusion a bit where the charge level on MFM showed about 70%. The next Go Time for the Fusion is on Friday. On Monday, my wife left for work in the Focus at 7:56 am (according to the key log in MFM) & plugged in the Fusion. The Fusion did not charge. It reported that it was "plugged in, waiting to charge" & that it would start charging at 3:00 am Tuesday morning. Overnight the Focus was plugged in, so the Fusion didn't charge. Today my wife left for work in the Focus at 7:34 am. This time, the Fusion began charging immediately & charged from 7:34-8:18 am.

Our current Value Charge profile is:

• $$$ from 12:00 midnight to 3:00 am
• $ from 3:00 am to 7:00 am
• $$$$ from 7:00 am to 6:00 pm
• $$$$$ from 6:00 pm to 9:00 pm
• $$$ from 9:00 pm to 12:00 midnight

Any ideas as to why the car is charging during the $$$$ time, instead of waiting? We like to keep the car plugged in to charge the 12V battery, but I don't want it charging when it might not be driven until Friday. But, we do want it plugged in because I may decide to go somewhere after I walk home from work, in which case, I'd need to be able to set a Go Time during the day to tell the car to charge. So, that's why we can't just leave it unplugged. But, I don't want it to charge unless I tell it to via a Go Time.

 

Could it be that the car knows that it waited yesterday & then was unplugged overnight, so it fears that this will happen again & thus it charges immediately on the second day? I'll continue to monitor more data.

[Hybridbear]

I looked back through the Trip & Charge Log. I could see that the car acted similarly last Tuesday. Last week my wife drove the Fusion to work on Monday, thus it was plugged in overnight on Sunday night. On Tuesday morning, she took the Focus to work & the Fusion again charged immediately, instead of waiting. Last week Tuesday it charged from 7:32-8:49 am. Maybe it's only on Tuesdays that it behaves strangely. The problem is that it may not be discharged again until Friday. For the most part we only use one car Monday-Thursday. It's often only Friday-Sunday that we need two cars. Hmmm...

[larryh]

According to the FAQs at MFM:

 

Value Charge Profiles allow you to control charge settings for a specific location to optimize savings. Value Charge Profiles allow MyFord Mobile users to reduce their electricity costs by taking advantage of reduced rates offered by their utility without a complicated set-up process. If the driver establishes a GO Time, he or she needs the car to be ready; the Value Charge Profile figures out when to start charging based on how empty the batteries are, and what hours electricity is cheapest. Otherwise the default is to be fully charged within 24 hours

 

If no GO time is set within 24 hours, it probably charges the car to ensure it has been fully charged within 24 hours of plugging in. 

Edited November 11, 2015 at 12:12 AM by larryh

[openair]

In your specific situation Hybridbear, you could likely control this charge within 24 hours behaviour by fudging the value charge profile for your fusion slightly. Try setting the value charge for your fusion to the lowest $ when the fusion will be unplugged to plug in the focus. This might cause issues for your Fridays but an additional go time, shortly after you want the vehicle to finish charging, should at least somewhat remedy this.

Edited November 11, 2015 at 12:39 AM by openair

[Hybridbear]

If no GO time is set within 24 hours, it probably charges the car to ensure it has been fully charged within 24 hours of plugging in. 

This is my thinking too. But why wouldn't it wait until 3:00 am Wednesday morning to charge when plugged in on Tuesday morning, like it would wait until 3:00 am Tuesday when plugged in on Monday morning? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

 

In your specific situation Hybridbear, you could likely control this charge within 24 hours behaviour by fudging the value charge profile for your fusion slightly. Try setting the value charge for your fusion to the lowest $ when the fusion will be unplugged to plug in the focus. This might cause issues for your Fridays but an additional go time, shortly after you want the vehicle to finish charging, should at least somewhat remedy this.

The $ time is overnight. The car is choosing to charge during a $$$$ period for some reason, even with no Go Time set.

[Hybridbear]

Again today the Fusion started charging immediately upon being plugged in during the $$$$ time period. I don't understand why it waits to charge on Mondays, but then charges immediately on Tuesdays when plugged in around the same time.

[Hybridbear]

Monday I used the Fusion for a few errands. Overnight it sat unplugged with about 35% SOC. Tuesday I left for a business trip. My wife dropped me off at the airport in the morning and we plugged in the Fusion when we left. Instead of waiting to charge, the Fusion again charged immediately. You might be wondering, why didn't I just leave it unplugged then if I was concerned about it charging immediately? The answer is because we've driven the Fusion so little lately that the 12V SOC has been dropping. We've only had this 12V battery for a few months. Lately the 12V SOC has only been showing 79-84%. I didn't want to leave it sitting unplugged and let the 12V drain.

[Hybridbear]

Today again the car disobeyed & began charging immediately. The next Go Time is Friday at 7:45 am. There is no reason for the car to charge immediately on Thursday morning during the $$$$ Value Charge window when the next Go Time is after the next $ window.

 

Yesterday morning the car did not begin charging immediately when plugged in. When it was plugged in Wednesday morning, the next Go Time was Thursday evening. I purposefully deleted this Thursday evening Go Time this morning so that the car wouldn't charge immediately.

 

Larry brought up an interesting point before:

According to the FAQs at MFM:

 

Value Charge Profiles allow you to control charge settings for a specific location to optimize savings. Value Charge Profiles allow MyFord Mobile users to reduce their electricity costs by taking advantage of reduced rates offered by their utility without a complicated set-up process. If the driver establishes a GO Time, he or she needs the car to be ready; the Value Charge Profile figures out when to start charging based on how empty the batteries are, and what hours electricity is cheapest. Otherwise the default is to be fully charged within 24 hours

 

If no GO time is set within 24 hours, it probably charges the car to ensure it has been fully charged within 24 hours of plugging in. 

Perhaps the car charges immediately if there is a Go Time within 24 hours of when the car is plugged in, even if there is a $ period before the Go Time. Perhaps the times when it doesn't charge immediately is only when there is no Go Time within the next 24 hours. I will start testing this theory.

[openair]

Perhaps the car charges immediately if there is a Go Time within 24 hours of when the car is plugged in, even if there is a $ period before the Go Time. Perhaps the times when it doesn't charge immediately is only when there is no Go Time within the next 24 hours. I will start testing this theory.

Not for me anyway. I've a go time set every morning except usually weekends. Mine follows value charging unless there is a Go Time that requires charging outside the value windows to reach a full charge by the go time. It also follows value charging moving into the weekend when there are no go times.

[Hybridbear]

Not for me anyway. I've a go time set every morning except usually weekends. Mine follows value charging unless there is a Go Time that requires charging outside the value windows to reach a full charge by the go time. It also follows value charging moving into the weekend when there are no go times.

So you can leave your car unplugged & partially discharged overnight, plug it in the following morning with no Go Time set & it will always wait until the next day to charge?

[openair]

Sorry, I don't believe I've ever been in the situation described by adding that additional stipulation to the situation I had quoted.  Or at least, when I have been, it was within the value charging window when I plugged it in anyway.

Edited January 24, 2016 at 12:38 AM by openair

[Hybridbear]

Perhaps the car charges immediately if there is a Go Time within 24 hours of when the car is plugged in, even if there is a $ period before the Go Time. Perhaps the times when it doesn't charge immediately is only when there is no Go Time within the next 24 hours. I will start testing this theory.

This appears to be exactly what the car is doing. Both Monday & Tuesday this week the car did not begin charging when plugged in around 7:15 am during the $$$$ period. The next Go Time was Wednesday at 1:00 pm on Monday morning. I deleted that Go Time yesterday because it will not be needed. When the car was plugged in today the next Go Time was Thursday at 7:45 pm. Hopefully tomorrow it will again not charge when plugged in. And then it should charge when plugged in on Thursday morning.

[Hybridbear]

It did charge today when plugged in around noon. The next Go Time is still Thursday at 7:45 pm. It appears that the car will charge immediately if there is a Go Time the following day, no matter when the following day that Go Time is.