240v Charger Installation Options and Cost

[Rhynri]

Just from the two days I've owned my FFET, I've seen how the Level 1 charger is limited.  I've also seen a few options for the 240v.  The best price to output options seem to be Clipper Creek like the one linked below:

 

Clipper Creek HCS-40P

 

But I'm not even sure that the FFET can take advantage of those 32 amps, and the price is considerably cheaper if you go with lower amps.  Our service box is on the other side of the house from the garage  We'll call that distance 30-40 feet.  We're looking to have a NEMA 15-40 plug installed, as well as future-proofing for an eventual solar system on the roof of the garage.  Has anyone done a similar install, even if only just the plug?  If so, what were your costs and how long did it take?

[murphy]

The maximum the car can take is 16 amps at 240 volts.  Anything larger is a waste of money unless you plan to add another electric vehicle in the future that could make use of higher current.  I assume that you mean a NEMA 14-50 because NEMA L15 connectors are intended for 208 volt 3 phase circuits and NEMA 15 doesn't exist.  A NEMA 14-50 outlet requires 6 gauge wire with 3 conductors and a ground.  The breaker in the panel would be a 50 amp dual breaker.  The maximum continuous current on a 50 amp circuit is 40 amps.  It can all be priced at Lowe's.

 

I'm not sure what the solar reference has to do with it.  A grid tied PV solar system is hard wired at the main meter(s).  Mine has three meters, solar production, power in from the power company, and power out to the power company.

 

If you are talking about a battery backed solar system, that requires an automatic main switch so the solar power and power company power can't be connected to the house at the same time.

[Rhynri]

Yes, I did mean 14-50, it was a transposition on my part.  As far as the solar system goes, The wires for the panels and such will need to be run at some point anyway, and running them all together makes more sense than doing it separately, in my thoughts, anyway.

Did you do the install for your outlet yourself?  While I'm comfortable doing the work, I'd probably want at least a how-to.  I realized sometime after I posted this that there is a more suitable section it could reside in, if you would like to move it, please do.  

[murphy]

The topic has been moved to "Batteries and Charging".

 

Do you have a way to run the wire inside of the house?  My panel is in the basement and there was a straight run to the garage along the unfinished basement ceiling.  Also the garage has open stud walls so running the wire was not a problem.  If your path is not open and accessible you may need to run it outside which will require running it in conduit.

[JATR4]

Just from the two days I've owned my FFET, I've seen how the Level 1 charger is limited.  I've also seen a few options for the 240v.  The best price to output options seem to be Clipper Creek like the one linked below:

 

Clipper Creek HCS-40P

 

But I'm not even sure that the FFET can take advantage of those 32 amps, and the price is considerably cheaper if you go with lower amps.  Our service box is on the other side of the house from the garage  We'll call that distance 30-40 feet.  We're looking to have a NEMA 15-40 plug installed, as well as future-proofing for an eventual solar system on the roof of the garage.  Has anyone done a similar install, even if only just the plug?  If so, what were your costs and how long did it take?

I have the LCS-25P at $549.  Paid about $150 to have the receptacle plug installed about one foot below my breaker panel.

[Rhynri]

I've been reading up on the OpenEV 30A build and it not only seems like the kind of thing I'd love to do, but the end result seems like a solid product.  I might very well go that route.  Can't beat the cost either.  

[Rhynri]

The topic has been moved to "Batteries and Charging".

 

Do you have a way to run the wire inside of the house?  My panel is in the basement and there was a straight run to the garage along the unfinished basement ceiling.  Also the garage has open stud walls so running the wire was not a problem.  If your path is not open and accessible you may need to run it outside which will require running it in conduit.

 

My house has a finished half basement (the windows are at ground level - you get some interesting views of squirrels).  There is theoretically a way to run wires along side the HVAC in the ceiling, or so I've been told.  It actually wouldn't be that difficult to run a conduit outside.  Can't say I considered/was aware of the option.  I very much appreciate your input though, thank you.

Edited November 16, 2014 at 03:30 AM by Rhynri

[Johnny Mo]

My house has a finished half basement (the windows are at ground level - you get some interesting views of squirrels).  There is theoretically a way to run wires along side the HVAC in the ceiling, or so I've been told.  It actually wouldn't be that difficult to run a conduit outside.  Can't say I considered/was aware of the option.  I very much appreciate your input though, thank you.

This is how I ran mine - total run was like 75 ft.  My electrician ran 8/3 wire instead of 8/2 that way if anything changes in the future the extra wire is already there.  Cost about $250 for the wire, receptacle, breaker and ancillary parts. 

[Rhynri]

You ran yours outside?  Sorry, just clarifying, because I did mention the HVAC route.  It's something that will have to wait a bit (for tax returns and such) but I'll most definitely be getting it done.

[Rexracer]

This is the charger I got

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-EL-51245-Electric-Vehicle-Charging/dp/B00DMG104E/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1416242938&sr=8-3&keywords=bosch+ev+charger

 

Its a very nice unit, looks great, works great, and is was the cheapest when I got it. The only problem is

A) not future proof, but I plan to keep this car 10 years, and chargers are likely an expendable item.

B) the cord is amazingly short. 12' sounds like a lot, but you really have to evaluate where you are putting the box compare to parking the car, as there isn't much wiggle room.

[Rhynri]

12' wouldn't make it to my car, and the outlet is right in front of the right headlight!  I like the tip you posted elsewhere about running a length of string first to see how much you need.  It occurs to me it'd be pretty handy to mount it overhead on one of those spring-loaded tethers you see mechanic's shops and oil change stations use.

Edited November 18, 2014 at 09:30 PM by Rhynri

[Hybridbear]

12' wouldn't make it to my car, and the outlet is right in front of the right headlight!  I like the tip you posted elsewhere about running a length of string first to see how much you need.  It occurs to me it'd be pretty handy to mount it overhead on one of those spring-loaded tethers you see mechanic's shops and oil change stations use.

A Focus Electric owner did this and posted pics on that Forum. It's a really neat way to keep the cord out of the slop and snow that the car tracks into the garage in the winter too. Our cord is really dirty and unpleasant to touch right now because of the snowy winter we've had already.

[Rhynri]

I believe that this:

Make your own retractable...

Is what you were talking about?  Yes/no?

[Hybridbear]

I believe that this:

 

Make your own retractable...

 

Is what you were talking about?  Yes/no?

That's it! I searched but didn't find it. I didn't recall the correct words from the thread to search for. Thank you for finding the link.

Edited November 19, 2014 at 09:16 PM by Hybridbear

[Rhynri]

That's it! I searched but didn't find it. I didn't recall the correct words from the thread to search for. Thank you for finding the link.

 

I figured it'd be good to have it here for future use.

[CapnBry]

I am installing an outlet in my garage and have priced out what it costs for a 50A outlet (future proof!). Starting from the panel:

50A breaker dual breaker - $15

50ft of 6/3 wire - $119

2 gang "old work" electrical box - $7

14-50 outlet - $10

outlet cover plate - $5

14-50 plug ("range cord") - $12

- charger -

 

$168+tax for everything except the charger.

 

As has been pointed out, anything over 20A is overkill for the Energi because it only does 16A. You could switch the whole thing over to 12 gauge wire and 50ft of 12/2 is only $31 so you could do it for under $80, or around $50 if you hardwire. You'd switch all the other parts for their lower power alternatives, but I am not sure what the plug would be.

 

I figure if I am going to spend $500+ on the charging station, might as well spend the extra $80 to have an outlet that can charge a Tesla.

Edited November 19, 2014 at 10:07 PM by CapnBry

[Rhynri]

What charging station were you doing?  If you are going DIY on the outlet, you should consider the OpenEVSE stuff, and DIY your own charger (you can even get the kit pre-soldiered for you). 

[CapnBry]

Yeah I am 90% sure I am going to get the 50A OpenEVSE. I'm a open source hardware developer as well and my device is built on the same platform as their controller so I know my way around it pretty well. Seems like they're pretty on the ball too. The only thing holding me back is deciding if I actually need 240V charging.

[stevedebi]

Yeah I am 90% sure I am going to get the 50A OpenEVSE. I'm a open source hardware developer as well and my device is built on the same platform as their controller so I know my way around it pretty well. Seems like they're pretty on the ball too. The only thing holding me back is deciding if I actually need 240V charging.

I'm with you there. I do pretty well with the 120V, and no matter how efficient, preconditioning costs electricity. Maybe it works out better financially than accepting the potential lower MPG because the cabin isn't pre-cooled or pre-warmed. I know a lot of folks on these forums are focused exclusively on maximizing MPG, but I prefer to think in overall costs.

 

If I had a need to constantly recharge over a short period a L2 might make sense. But my driving cycles really only needs one charge per day, which the L1 does fine.

[Rhynri]

I'm more preparing for a Tesla, so 240v makes sense for me.

[Rhynri]

As a note OpenEVSE is in the process of offering some better enclosures, so some of the kits aren't being listed right now.... The ones with LCD displays and buttons included.

[CapnBry]

I bought one of their latest kits, the 50A v3 with the powdercoated aluminum enclosure. It includes the current measurement and LCD and everything and was $475 shipped with a 20ft 40A flexible cord. I considered sourcing all the parts myself because I regularly place orders with electronic components places like digikey and mouser but I am glad I bought their kit so I didn't have to figure out how to make an enclosure or buy a bunch of screws or anything.

 

It is smaller than I expected it to be too, like less than half the size of most the big commercial units and does 50A (40A continuous)! Even if the Energi only takes 14A I figure it is worth a little more to have room to grow.

 

EDIT: More photos on my Google+

https://plus.google.com/115791887386052258127/posts/gS5WNybA4zL

Edited December 19, 2014 at 10:18 PM by CapnBry

[Rhynri]

How was the assembly, final product quality, etc?

[CapnBry]

The quality of the components is top notch and there's not much to assemble beyond soldering something like 8 leads, putting in some screws, and putting the wire in. There are some wiring bits to assemble with crimp connectors, solder, and heatshrink, and it doesn't take too long but that's the most tedious part to go through. All the holes are predrilled and ready to go. The powdercoat on the box is really nice and professional looking, although the logo doesn't look like it will last.

 

The most difficult part for me was running 6 gauge wire into the box and getting the wires into the contactor screw terminals. The bends are a little tight for such thick wire. If I did it again I'd probably go with 30A (24A continuous) wiring instead just because the wire is so much easier to work with. I probably spent about two hours putting the box together and another 1.5-2 just trying to get the power cable wired. The J1772 cable (a 50A ultra flexible) was a dream to install by comparison because it had two lighter gauge wires instead of one mondo one.

 

The beauty of the OpenEVSE really shines because I connected a $26 wifi router to it with a $4 cable and now it has a web site too.

[Cody Permann]

That is really cool. Now I wish I had gone with OpenEVSE! I got a deal on a 40 Amp Leviton system through Amazon awhile back. Way more than I need but this won't be my last EV!