Survey from UC Davis

[Neil]

Did anyone else receive a survey request from a researcher from University of California, Davis?  I received a letter (on school letterhead) saying I had been identified as an early adopter of Plug-in Hybrid technology, and pointed me to an on-line survey about my experience.  It seemed legitimate so I went ahead and filled out the survey.  It seemed to deal mainly with incentive programs for buying a PHEV.  The questions were pretty good, but definitely were slanted to the California experience - for example it asked if I had an HOV 'sticker' for the car.  I live in Virginia and we use special Hybrid license plates vs. a sticker to allow us to drive in the HOV lanes.  It also had a question (multiple choice) about having  solar panels on my house.  I had to laugh at the possible answers (paraphrased):

 

a) No - I am not able to install solar panels

b) No - but I will be installing them in 6 months

c) Yes 

 

I needed an answer like " d) No - Haven't really thought too much about it. Sounds like a lot of work with a questionable ROI, so probably will not be doing it " 

 

Anyway, it was a pretty interesting survey and I'd like to see the results of the data.  I'm not sure why they needed my credit card number and a naked picture of myself, but I guess that is all part of the process. :)  J/K - they really didn't ask for that.  

[Russael]

Yeah, I received one a few days ago and filled it out probably an hour ago.  The solar panel question had a fill in the blank spot for an estimate as to how many months a person would wait to install solar if you were able.

 

Interestingly enough, it questioned what routes I took to work and a route I took for my most distant trip.  Not sure if they're interested in the speeds or number of intersections/stops.  They were also curious as to what public charging stations I used (few and far between).

 

Anyway, it was a unique survey.

[howardbc]

Hi, Neil. In another forum I posted that I too got a survey but mine was from Consumer Reports. They wanted to know my MPG but the form wouldn't take more than 2 digits. 

 

On the solar panels, just an FYI ... I have them and my electric bills are pretty much zero except for the 3 hottest months out here in Arizona. If you have a roof, it wouldn't hurt to talk to 2-3 companies. Basically the ROI seems to be around 7 years. I had a first bunch installed about 8 years ago and then had more put on last Spring. So my FFE runs mostly on the solar panels. I buy excess kilowatts from a company that provides wind power for an extra 2 cents per kilowatt hour.

 

There's a company here that makes an umbrella-shaped solar panel array that one could put out on a sunny patio. 

 

I bought my rooftop solar panels for the same reason I bought the FFE - for the environment as well as to save money. Plus I have always been interested in new technology. 

[stevedebi]

Did anyone else receive a survey request from a researcher from University of California, Davis?  I received a letter (on school letterhead) saying I had been identified as an early adopter of Plug-in Hybrid technology, and pointed me to an on-line survey about my experience.  It seemed legitimate so I went ahead and filled out the survey.  It seemed to deal mainly with incentive programs for buying a PHEV.  The questions were pretty good, but definitely were slanted to the California experience - for example it asked if I had an HOV 'sticker' for the car.  I live in Virginia and we use special Hybrid license plates vs. a sticker to allow us to drive in the HOV lanes.  It also had a question (multiple choice) about having  solar panels on my house.  I had to laugh at the possible answers (paraphrased):

 

a) No - I am not able to install solar panels

b) No - but I will be installing them in 6 months

c) Yes 

 

I needed an answer like " d) No - Haven't really thought too much about it. Sounds like a lot of work with a questionable ROI, so probably will not be doing it " 

 

Anyway, it was a pretty interesting survey and I'd like to see the results of the data.  I'm not sure why they needed my credit card number and a naked picture of myself, but I guess that is all part of the process. :)  J/K - they really didn't ask for that.  

If the other questions are this slanted, that is a pretty bad survey. They phrase the questions to get one of a range of answers desired without providing differing possible answers.

[meyersnole]

Hi, Neil. In another forum I posted that I too got a survey but mine was from Consumer Reports. They wanted to know my MPG but the form wouldn't take more than 2 digits. 

 

 

I just got and took the consumer reports survey as well. Unfortunately I have done way too much highway driving lately, so I have dropped well below triple digits. :)

[howardbc]

But I bet your average MPG is still very impressive. The first couple of months I had my FFE, I took a 550+ mile road trip with no charging and still had an average of 68MPG. I loved watching people's jaws drop open when I would tell them. Then I reset my Lifetime Summary when I knew I wouldn't be taking another road trip any time soon. 

 

It's still a mystery to me why the general public is so negative towards plugin cars. I've just progressed to the stage where I won't spend a second trying to convince them if I catch any hostile vibes. If they don't want to save money or care about the environment, then the heck with them. It's a waste of my personal energy.

[stevedebi]

But I bet your average MPG is still very impressive. The first couple of months I had my FFE, I took a 550+ mile road trip with no charging and still had an average of 68MPG. I loved watching people's jaws drop open when I would tell them. Then I reset my Lifetime Summary when I knew I wouldn't be taking another road trip any time soon. 

 

It's still a mystery to me why the general public is so negative towards plugin cars. I've just progressed to the stage where I won't spend a second trying to convince them if I catch any hostile vibes. If they don't want to save money or care about the environment, then the heck with them. It's a waste of my personal energy.

The mileage is impressive, but we still have to consider the cost of electricity. Out here in LA it is about 17 cents a KWh. I think that the MFM includes this calculation - the MPG is always less over there than the left hand display - but they don't provide a cumulative MPG there. I suspect that is because Ford is very shy about putting up lifetime MPG after the fiasco with the C-Max last year.

[Hybridbear]

That's why we track MPGe on our car displays. In Fuelly I just do MPG but I put in the notes how many kWh the car shows for that same period. For our apartment complex I track how much electricity the car shows and I divide it by 80% to estimate how many kWh we used. Our MPGe on the dash is much lower than the MPG shown in my Fuelly bar.

[meyersnole]

My kWh is 11 cents, it cost me about $0.75 to fill up the battery. I know I should track it, but do not really have a great way to do it I never put a meter in the line. Looked at it but the cost was not worth it to me. I chose to ignore the cost... just like burning less fossil fuel. Locally I burn almost no fuel, only have to fill up when traveling.

 

I got 235 mpg (ignoring electricity) on my first tank, I am inching back up just under 62. Will take another hit around thanksgiving as I plan to take another road trip. Football season is very hard on the MPG... but still way better than it was in my Acura TL. I get about 40mpg (drive too fast to get the most out of the car). If I didn't like driving 75, I know I would be in the upper 40s.

[stevedebi]

That's why we track MPGe on our car displays. In Fuelly I just do MPG but I put in the notes how many kWh the car shows for that same period. For our apartment complex I track how much electricity the car shows and I divide it by 80% to estimate how many kWh we used. Our MPGe on the dash is much lower than the MPG shown in my Fuelly bar.

But the 2014 does NOT track MPGe...

[jeff_h]

I got this same letter today, and there is a line in there that says "Your identity will be protected and your answers guarded according to strict human subject provisions of the University of California."

 

So who gave my name and address to them?  Apparently that entity doesn't have the same strict "human subject provisions" in protecting my identity....

Edited November 7, 2014 at 11:54 AM by jeff_h

[Gigi]

Too much time and mental effort for me.

[Russael]

I got this same letter today, and there is a line in there that says "Your identity will be protected and your answers guarded according to strict human subject provisions of the University of California."

 

So who gave my name and address to them?  Apparently that entity doesn't have the same strict "human subject provisions" in protecting my identity....

 

Ford did.  They sell a metric ton of information to willing buyers.  The only people who knew you bought a PHEV would be Ford and your insurance company.  The loan company likely doesn't know the specifics of the car purchased.

[jeff_h]

Ford did.  They sell a metric ton of information to willing buyers.  The only people who knew you bought a PHEV would be Ford and your insurance company.  The loan company likely doesn't know the specifics of the car purchased.

 

Yeah I know I was being facetious as I'd already received surveys in the past from 2-3 (I think 3) other survey research firms (I think all based on Michigan), I doubted they were running around to a bunch of DMVs (who have varying release rules I bet), or to insurance or finance companies since there are a boatload of those out there -- but only one FOMOCO that would have that info.  

[rbort]

Just went though it, it was the most "boring" survey I ever did it seems, some are alot more enjoyable.

 

-=>Raja.

[Kybuck]

 I think that the MFM includes this calculation - the MPG is always less over there than the left hand display

 

Not exactly.  MFM takes into account the electricity usage (not the cost of the electricity - just like normal MPG calculations take into account the fuel usage, not the cost of the fuel).

 

Ignoring the electrical portion when stating a MPG value is, at the very least, misleading.  It doesn't help people understand how these cars actually work.  It's like saying any car can go 100 miles without using any gas from its tank... when it is being towed.  Energy efficiency needs to take all of the fuel/energy sources into account.  The car cannot typically go 100+ miles on a gallon of gas alone.  It can go 100+ miles on a gallon of gas PLUS some electricity.

[howardbc]

Kybuck, you're correct of course, but I use "MPG" when talking to ICE owners because that gets their attention. If I said things in MPGe, their eyes would glaze over even faster. 

[HotLap]

howardbc, good job on the solar!   I went with solar a couple of months ago and think I got a great deal!  Basically prepaid for my systems total guaranteed production over the next 20 yrs, I wrote a check for $13,000.00 and divided by the guaranteed power production kWh, I paid 8.4 cents per kWh!  That production is all going to retire Tier 4 usage at 32.0 cents per kWh so a huge savings for me.  (About $200/mo. savings in todays Tier 4 kWh costs and will only save me more as SCE rates increase - the next 5 yrs. worth of increases already approved and just waiting to come on line).  At today's Tier 4 price per kWh, my breakeven is between 4.5 - 5yrs...will be even faster as the Tier 4 rates rise...and it's wonderful to be greener, and not be held hostage to SCE rate increases!!  By purchasing the power production, the Solar Co. still owns the system and is responsible for all maintenance, warranty and insurance, of which would have deferred to me if I had purchased the system outright.  I couldn't be happier every time I plug in mf FFE I smile :)

[stevedebi]

howardbc, good job on the solar!   I went with solar a couple of months ago and think I got a great deal!  Basically prepaid for my systems total guaranteed production over the next 20 yrs, I wrote a check for $13,000.00 and divided by the guaranteed power production kWh, I paid 8.4 cents per kWh!  That production is all going to retire Tier 4 usage at 32.0 cents per kWh so a huge savings for me.  (About $200/mo. savings in todays Tier 4 kWh costs and will only save me more as SCE rates increase - the next 5 yrs. worth of increases already approved and just waiting to come on line).  At today's Tier 4 price per kWh, my breakeven is between 4.5 - 5yrs...will be even faster as the Tier 4 rates rise...and it's wonderful to be greener, and not be held hostage to SCE rate increases!!  By purchasing the power production, the Solar Co. still owns the system and is responsible for all maintenance, warranty and insurance, of which would have deferred to me if I had purchased the system outright.  I couldn't be happier every time I plug in mf FFE I smile :)

Wow, Tier 4! I never get past 2...

[stevedebi]

Not exactly.  MFM takes into account the electricity usage (not the cost of the electricity - just like normal MPG calculations take into account the fuel usage, not the cost of the fuel).

 

Ignoring the electrical portion when stating a MPG value is, at the very least, misleading.  It doesn't help people understand how these cars actually work.  It's like saying any car can go 100 miles without using any gas from its tank... when it is being towed.  Energy efficiency needs to take all of the fuel/energy sources into account.  The car cannot typically go 100+ miles on a gallon of gas alone.  It can go 100+ miles on a gallon of gas PLUS some electricity.

I probably didn't understand the original question. I thought that MPGe was a measure of efficiency equivilent to miles per gallon, based on the energy used? After all "normal" MPG doesn't change based on the price of the gasoline. Am I missing something?

 

Or are you now speaking of the efficiency losses used to generate the electricity? That is a bit too esoteric for my preference. I included those calculations to estimate my monthly electric costs when I bought the car (to see if it would work out to lower costs monthly than my former hybrid), but I don't really track them since then.

[Hybridbear]

I probably didn't understand the original question. I thought that MPGe was a measure of efficiency equivilent to miles per gallon, based on the energy used? After all "normal" MPG doesn't change based on the price of the gasoline. Am I missing something?

 

Or are you now speaking of the efficiency losses used to generate the electricity? That is a bit too esoteric for my preference. I included those calculations to estimate my monthly electric costs when I bought the car (to see if it would work out to lower costs monthly than my former hybrid), but I don't really track them since then.

Neither MPG or MPGe factor in energy costs. But MPGe can use any source of energy or a combination of energy sources (kWh & gallons of gasoline). MPG only considers one energy source (gallons of gasoline).