Need help with installation of NEMA 14-50 outlet for my Clipper Creek HCS-40P

[mbison]

Hi guys,

 

I am trying to save some money on the installation of the NEMA 14-50 outlet in my garage to power the HCS-40P CC charger. I want to make sure that I am buying the right parts. I am including pictures of the service panel that is in my garage. I want to install the outlet few feet from it. 

 

Here is the power cable that I think will work, but please correct me if it is not the right one:

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-8-4-SOOW-Multi-Use-Electrical-Cord-Black-By-the-Foot-55809399/204725138?quantity=5&str_nbr=6644

 

Here is the NEMA 14-50 outlet. Please let me know if that is the right part:

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-50-Amp-Nylon-Power-Single-Outlet-Black-R50-00279-000/202066681?quantity=1&str_nbr=6644

 

One problem I am having is that the service panel I have is made by Murray and I understand I'd need a 40 amp breaker of the same brand, however, I cannot find a 40 amp circuit breaker of this brand that would fit in the space under the other breakers.

 

Has anyone in California had it installed? I want to receive the rebate on the charger which would pay it off, but I need to have it installed according to the CA electric codes. 

 

I appreciate any help in this matter. 

 

Edited November 1, 2014 at 01:53 AM by mbison

[looking372]

mbison,

 

Without the installation instructions from the charger I'm not going to guess if those parts are correct.

 

However to fit a 40AMP breaker you'll have to:

    1. Breakout the two blanks in the panel.  They're the two depressed areas just below the bottom breakers in the first picture.

    2. Move one pair of the bottom 20 AMP breakers to one of the new openings on the opposite side.  This will require some rewiring.

    3. Now you can install the 40amp in the freed up spot and the newly opened one.

 

If you don't know what you're doing, I wouldn't recommend making the changes. 

 

Just a disclosure, I'm NOT a electrician.

[murphy]

You need 6 gauge wire and a 50 amp circuit breaker to go with a 14-50 outlet.  The 50 part of 14-50 says that it is a 50 amp receptacle.  A continuous draw is required to be at 80% of the breaker rating which for a 50 amp breaker is 40 amps.  I only see space in that panel for a single breaker on each side.  You need a 50 amp breaker that looks exactly like the existing 40 amp breaker.  You need to move the lower left pair of breakers to the right side so you will have room for the 50 amp breaker.

 

What size wire is feeding the sub-panel?  I'm guessing that it is not big enough to add that size of a load to the sub-panel.  At a minimum it would have to be 6 gauge and probably needs to be 2 gauge.

 

You need an electrician to evaluate the whole system (main panel and sub-panel) and modify it as necessary.  Over heated wires in the walls is what causes electrical fires.

[mbison]

You need 6 gauge wire and a 50 amp circuit breaker to go with a 14-50 outlet.  The 50 part of 14-50 says that it is a 50 amp receptacle.  A continuous draw is required to be at 80% of the breaker rating which for a 50 amp breaker is 40 amps.  I only see space in that panel for a single breaker on each side.  You need a 50 amp breaker that looks exactly like the existing 40 amp breaker.  You need to move the lower left pair of breakers to the right side so you will have room for the 50 amp breaker.

 

What size wire is feeding the sub-panel?  I'm guessing that it is not big enough to add that size of a load to the sub-panel.  At a minimum it would have to be 6 gauge and probably needs to be 2 gauge.

 

You need an electrician to evaluate the whole system (main panel and sub-panel) and modify it as necessary.  Over heated wires in the walls is what causes electrical fires.

I just purchased this 8 gauge wire (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-8-4-SOOW-Multi-Use-Electrical-Cord-Black-By-the-Foot-55809399/204725138?quantity=5&str_nbr=6644) and from the CC manual it seems that it requires at least a 10 gauge wire. Would that be okay or do I really need to get a 6 gauge wire? 

 

As for the circuit breaker, I have read on multiple forums that a 40 amp breaker would be fine. One of the users claimed to call CC and they have confirmed that 40 amp breaker is fine. 

 

The link to the discussion is here: http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=162283

 

I have already purchased the 40 amp breaker, but if I absolutely need a 50 amp breaker for safety then I will have to return it and get a replacement.

 

Please advise. 

[rbort]

I think you will be OK with a 40 amp breaker.  If you draw too much then it will just trip.  If it doesn't trip then its good.  If it trips then you take it back to home depot and get the 50 amp version.

 

The wire if they recommend a 10 gage and you got an 8 I don't see why its not good.  If the wire is too thin it will get hot.  Feel the temp while its running, if its not getting hot then its capable of supplying the current needed to charge.  You have to give it time to warm up its not instantaneous so best to check it at least an hour after charging so see where the temp peaks at.

 

-=>Raja.

[mbison]

My main concern with the installation is that it is done according to the California electric codes (Article 625). As I am looking at the document, it states that for a 32 amp load, minimum circuit breaker rating should be 40 amps. So I should be good there. 

 

As far as the wire goes, I will definitely keep an eye out for it. Thank you for the tip.

 

I appreciate your input, guys! 

[jeff_h]

From Murphy's post above - "The 50 part of 14-50 says that it is a 50 amp receptacle."

 

For your particular purpose maybe the 40-Amp breaker is sufficient, but since it is a receptacle designed for up to 50-Amp would it be going against code to use a lower one?  I don't know the answer to that, but would hate to see you find out later that it's not within code and that it could have been compliant from the start by spending a few bucks more for the higher rated one?

[murphy]

If you use a receptacle that is rated for 50 amps it means that a 50 amp appliance COULD be plugged into it.  That means the wire must be sized for 50 amps.  That requires that at least 6 gauge wire be used.  The largest breaker that can be used with 6 gauge wire is 50 amps.  It is okay to use a smaller breaker because it will still protect the wire,  The breaker is there to protect the wire from getting too hot.  Breaker selection has absolutely nothing to do with what might be connected to the circuit.  So far the request for the size of the wire feeding the sub-panel has not been answered.  If you put a 50 amp circuit in that sub-panel the wire gauge all of the wire back to the main panel must be sized to properly feed the panel.

[mbison]

If you use a receptacle that is rated for 50 amps it means that a 50 amp appliance COULD be plugged into it.  That means the wire must be sized for 50 amps.  That requires that at least 6 gauge wire be used.  The largest breaker that can be used with 6 gauge wire is 50 amps.  It is okay to use a smaller breaker because it will still protect the wire,  The breaker is there to protect the wire from getting too hot.  Breaker selection has absolutely nothing to do with what might be connected to the circuit.  So far the request for the size of the wire feeding the sub-panel has not been answered.  If you put a 50 amp circuit in that sub-panel the wire gauge all of the wire back to the main panel must be sized to properly feed the panel

Can you please link me to the right power cable sold by home depot or lowes? 

[murphy]

Can you please link me to the right power cable sold by home depot or lowes? 

6-3 Indoor Non-Metallic Jacket Wire (By-the-Foot)

 

http://www.lowes.com/pd_70166-295-63950045_4294722493__?productId=50101582&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar|1%26page%3D3&facetInfo=

 

 

Note:  6-3 wire has 4 conductors, black and red for the hot conductors, white for the neutral, and bare for the earth ground.

 

The U shaped pin on the outlet is the earth ground, the pin opposite the earth ground is the neutral, the other two are the hot connections.  Either one of the hot connections can be black or red.

[Kybuck]

If you use a receptacle that is rated for 50 amps it means that a 50 amp appliance COULD be plugged into it.  That means the wire must be sized for 50 amps.  That requires that at least 6 gauge wire be used.  The largest breaker that can be used with 6 gauge wire is 50 amps.  It is okay to use a smaller breaker because it will still protect the wire,  The breaker is there to protect the wire from getting too hot.  Breaker selection has absolutely nothing to do with what might be connected to the circuit.  So far the request for the size of the wire feeding the sub-panel has not been answered.  If you put a 50 amp circuit in that sub-panel the wire gauge all of the wire back to the main panel must be sized to properly feed the panel.

 

Not entirely true.  NEC table 210.21(B)(3) allows a 50A receptacle on a 40A circuit (as far as I know, there is no such thing as a NEMA 40A receptacle).  If someone decides to plug a 50A device into the plug in the future, the 40A breaker will trip and protect the wiring.  The bigger concern would be if someone blindly replaces the 40A breaker with a 50A breaker (because it keeps tripping) without resizing the wiring, but they would be the ones causing non-compliance with the code.

[murphy]

That's the problem.  Most people (yes I know that is a sweeping statement) in my experience have no idea that a breaker is used to protect the wire.  They wouldn't think twice about putting in a bigger breaker if the existing one kept tripping.  Similar to the fuse box era of putting a coin behind a blown fuse to get the power back on and then forgetting about it.

[mbison]

I have just ordered the 6 gauge cable and a 50 amp breaker. Hopefully will get this thing wired up next weekend. I appreciate your input!