Test Drive question: Poor acceleration on depleted battery?

[eric_n_dfw]

Hi there, I'm currently nearing lease end on a 2013 Chevy Volt (if you frequent gm-volt.com forums, you probably have seen me there) and decided to go test drive a Fusion Energi SE a couple of days ago.  

 

When I got to the dealership the car's battery was completely drained to the point that the ICE had to run even when idling to get the cabin cooled off and when crawling through the parking lot.  When I hit the road, I immediately noticed that the acceleration seemed horribly slow, especially compared to my Volt.  This seems to contradict what I'm reading on all of the automotive review sites which say it should match the Volt when both the ICE and electric motor are running.

My question is if the Energi's battery can get depleted so far that the electric motors effectively provide no power?

I'm planning on asking the salesperson to charge it up (like they said they were going to do last time but didn't) and test drive it again to compare.

 

PS: If you care to read it, I originally posted my "review" at gm-volt.com which is where one of the commenters referred me to the reviews I mentioned above.

 

[JATR4]

 

Hi there, I'm currently nearing lease end on a 2013 Chevy Volt (if you frequent gm-volt.com forums, you probably have seen me there) and decided to go test drive a Fusion Energi SE a couple of days ago.  

 

When I got to the dealership the car's battery was completely drained to the point that the ICE had to run even when idling to get the cabin cooled off and when crawling through the parking lot.  When I hit the road, I immediately noticed that the acceleration seemed horribly slow, especially compared to my Volt.  This seems to contradict what I'm reading on all of the automotive review sites which say it should match the Volt when both the ICE and electric motor are running.

My question is if the Energi's battery can get depleted so far that the electric motors effectively provide no power?

I'm planning on asking the salesperson to charge it up (like they said they were going to do last time but didn't) and test drive it again to compare.

 

PS: If you care to read it, I originally posted my "review" at gm-volt.com which is where one of the commenters referred me to the reviews I mentioned above.

 

You were test driving a hybrid.  With no miles left on the battery you did not get a true test drive of the Energi.  If you want to test acceleration, the battery needs to be charged and you need to drive in AUTO not EV.  AUTO will use both electric and gas when you accelerate.  In EV mode you have to fully depress the accelerator pedal  and press OK to get the gas engine to respond.

Edited August 11, 2014 at 04:14 PM by JATR4

[meyersnole]

Interesting. I am surprised this is still happening, I would hope that the dealer would know to put the car on the charger after a test drive.

 

Maybe set up an appointment to drive when it has a full charge? A word of caution, if acceleration is a priority for you this might not be a great choice for you. The Fusion is a much larger / heavier car than the Volt with half the battery capacity. While the Fusion will actually out accelerate the Volt, you will deplete a good portion of the range doing it... And you may not have the range to spare. Plenty of cars faster than both the FFe and Volt.

[Dan's Energi]

We're Volt owners too.  Love the Volt, but wanted more space, with more features.  I wish the FFE had the Volts EV range and acceleration though.

 

So, regarding acceleration - the FFE is S-L-O-W in EV-Later mode.  0-60 is around 20 seconds in EV-Later mode which stinks compared to the Volt's time (~8 seconds EV or gas).  But, 0-40 is quick, so normal traffic isn't a problem and the FFE pops up a question on the dash asking if you want to enable the engine when you press hard on the accelerator pedal.  If you click yes, the engine is enabled and you're on your way quickly.  With the electric motor and the engine the FFE is FASTER than the Volt, but it sucks that it's slower in EV only.

 

The battery does not need to be charged for you to test drive the FFE.  It needs to be if you want to test out EV mode, but since you have a Volt you know about that.  It's pretty much the same as the Volt, just not as fast.

 

The FFE is not much heavier than the Volt, it's about 130 lbs different.  It is MUCH bigger, inside and out.  We love it and probably wouldn't have bought the Volt if they had been available at the same time.  We can charge at work so the range difference doesn't affect us much but having that 5th seat means friends can ride in the same car.

[eric_n_dfw]

Interesting comments.

 

The car was in EV-Auto mode and, in fact, wouldn't let me chose any other mode due to the low battery.

 

One of the things I love about the Volt is that I drive it in "Sport" mode all of the time and don't notice any lose of AER: 40 miles in spring/fall, 35-38 in the summer, ~30 in sub-freezing.   I generally keep the little "leaf" icon close to center too, not flooring it very often but it's nice to have that power when I ask for it.

 

I'll let you guys know my impressions after test drive #2.

[Dan's Energi]

What's the point of being in Sport mode if you're just going to keep the leaf centered (BTW, for those wondering, keeping the leaf centered means you're being efficient)?   Sport mode does not give you any more power.  All it does is remap the pedal so that a light tap feels sportier.  Your AER won't change because you're in sport mode if you drive efficiently.

[eric_n_dfw]

My comment was misleading, I think.  I don't try to keep it centered, in fact I'm sure it's bouncing at least 1/2 way up the meter when I hit the throttle - but it settles back into the center so quickly that it seems to always be near there when I look.

 

My point was that, even though I do that, I don't really even think about conservation or hyper-miling but I still get excellent AER numbers.  It's like the best of both worlds: sporty acceleration + great EV mileage.   I just wish it was more practical from the interior space POV... which is why I'm considering the Fusion after all.  My worry is that, even if the Fusion Energi is as peppy as I read in EV-Auto mode, that I'll have to use gas to achieve the same responsiveness - a compromise I didn't anticipate.  (Not saying it's a deal breaker either, but something to consider.)

[Rexracer]

As someone who a) races (ovals/road course) b) just bought a corvette c) has never been known to drive slowly.... The acceleration in EV only mode has not bothered me at all, and when I need it the ICE kicks in and I have more the enough acceleration.

 

Do I mash the throttle much? Nope, since my EV range isn't as much as a Volt or Leaf, I do conserve it, but when I need the power it is there. Coming back from the coast a few weeks ago, going up hill, i was impressed with how quickly the car got up to 80-85 to pass 4 slower moving vehicles on the narrow 2 lane road.

 

As far as the battery being depleted enough that you would have only been feeling the gas engine with no EV assist I don't know, but its definitely worth having the dealer give it a proper charge, and then trying it out again.

I too considered the Volt, but it didn't fit my family and the car seat/seats...

[Energized]

Here is an excerpt from Motor Trend on this subject.

 

"The 2014 Ford Fusion Energi not only is more efficient overall than its non-plug-in counterpart, but it's quicker, too. Combined power is rated 188 hp from a 141-hp, 2.0-liter Atkinson-cycle I-4 and 118-hp electric motor, and the big battery filling much of the trunk is a 7.6 kW-hr lithium-ion unit. Despite weighing 3981 pounds as-tested in high-end Titanium trim, the 2014 Ford Fusion Energi is slightly quicker in stoplight sprints to 30 mph, at 2.9 seconds to the 3.1 seconds of the Toyota Prius PHEV, 2012 Chevrolet Volt, and non-PHEV Fusion Hybrid SE. When the engine and electric motor are working together, the Fusion Energi never feels sluggish. From zero to 60 mph, the Fusion Energi's 7.9-second time beats the non-PHEV Fusion (8.5 seconds), Toyota Prius PHEV (9.8 seconds), and 2012 Chevrolet Volt (8.8 seconds)."

 

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1404_2014_ford_fusion_energi_phev_first_test/#ixzz3A7No9T00

[JATR4]

...that I'll have to use gas to achieve the same responsiveness - a compromise...

If you want responsiveness, you WILL have to use gas!!!!!  That is the beauty of this car--it has two sources of power.

[eric_n_dfw]

If you want responsiveness, you WILL have to use gas!!!!!  That is the beauty of this car--it has two sources of power.

One might say that's it's weakness when compared to the Volt.  The Volt two has two sources of power and is responsive regardless of which you are utilizing. 

 

I'm really not trying to turn this into a Volt vs Energi discussion - each has it's strengths.  I'm just trying to figure out why on the test drive it had such poor acceleration and if that situation would ever happen under normal, "EV-Auto", use seeing as I'd always be charging it when at home.

[murphy]

Even with the HVB discharged the Hybrid portion of the battery should still be there to provide an assist.  If the car was sitting for a long time the hybrid portion of the battery may have also been discharged.  In that case not only would the ICE be propelling the car it would also be charging the hybrid portion of the battery.  You can't get full power from the ICE to the wheels if it is also driving the generator to charge the hybrid battery.

[Energized]

That is the beauty of this car--it has two sources of power.

Yes, two sources of power and also two sources of power (to the wheels) that can be manually selected by the driver. Those two sources can be used exclusively (ICE or EV) or in combination as two blended sources of power (ICE + EV). Having an eCVT allows this flexibility and blending to happen efficiently.

 

The advantage of this solution is the driver can select the mode for the given situation or desired goals (climbing hills, max acceleration, max efficiency, high speed cruising, etc.).

 

Since electricity costs more than unleaded for me, having this flexibility and capability is essential for me.

Edited August 11, 2014 at 10:48 PM by Energized

[JATR4]

Yes, two sources of power and also two sources of power that can be manually selected by the driver. Those two sources can be used exclusively (ICE or EV) or in combination as two blended sources of power (ICE + EV). Having an eCVT allows this flexibility and blending to happen efficiently.

 

The advantage of this solution is the driver can select the mode for the given situation or desired goals (climbing hills, max acceleration, max efficiency, high speed cruising, etc.).

 

Since electricity costs more than unleaded for me, having this flexibility and capability is essential for me.

Go test drive an Energi with a full charge and step on the accelerator until both the electric motor and the gas engine are being used..  Others have given you the facts that the Energi accelerates faster than the Volt.  You did not test drive an Energi.  With a depleted battery you drove a hybrid with an extra load in the trunk.  The state of charge of the hybrid battery was probably below optimal as well.

 

You won't know until you test drive an Energi with a full charge.  Your experience is not abnormal with dealers not charging the battery.  When I test drove a hybrid the Energi on the showroom floor had a depleted 12 volt battery and you couldn't even open the trunk.  On the hybrid that I did test drive, the 12 volt battery had to be jumped.  When I traded my hybrid--after 3 months--I made sure the 12 volt battery on the Energi I purchased was OK.

 

P.S.  What Murphy said!

Edited August 11, 2014 at 10:42 PM by JATR4

[eric_n_dfw]

Yes, two sources of power and also two sources of power that can be manually selected by the driver. Those two sources can be used exclusively (ICE or EV) or in combination as two blended sources of power (ICE + EV). Having an eCVT allows this flexibility and blending to happen efficiently.

 

The advantage of this solution is the driver can select the mode for the given situation or desired goals (climbing hills, max acceleration, max efficiency, high speed cruising, etc.).

 

Since electricity costs more than unleaded for me, having this flexibility and capability is essential for me.

Damn!  What do you have to pay for electricity where you are?   Mine is $0.09/KWh - which (using the numbers I get from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_hybrid ) would make the Fusion Energi cost me $0.333 per mile in EV only - regular gas is about $3.20/gal so that's about $.086 per mile on dino-juice.    I think to be higher than gasoline (at least at $3.20/gal) your electricity would must have to be somewhere around $0.24/KWh!  My condolences, that really sucks.

[Energized]

I wish it was only $0.24 per kWh, I pay in the low to mid $0.30s depending on which tier I hit.

[wazer]

When I test drove a 2013 back in May, I had an appointment for a test drive, so they had the car "ready" for me. They said they had to jump it beforehand because it had been sitting on the lot for so long. When I arrived for my appointment, I hopped in and it turned right on, but I saw no EV miles. They didn't have the HVB charged for me, so I drove it over to their 240V charging station and plugged it in. I sat back down in the drivers seat with the salesman next to me, and started teaching him everything I already knew about the car, and most of it was stuff he didn't know. I spent the next two hours fiddling with the vehicle and talking about leasing/financing options. After it was full, I went on my test drive, leaving the dealer in EV Later on my way home, to see if I could make it to/from my office in EV Now. It was a piece of cake to do, and I was very surprised by how easily I could get to highway speeds in EV Now mode. Two miles of my commute each way are highway, so I do not need gas for such a short distance at that speed.

 

In your case, I agree with murphy in that the HVB was probably very low, which caused the ICE to run to charge the battery AND drive the wheels, which is why you saw reduced power. Those types of situations shouldn't happen very often, if at all, once it has been purchased and no longer sits on the lot for weeks on end.

Edited August 12, 2014 at 12:03 AM by wazer

[eric_n_dfw]

I had my second test drive last night, this time with a full charge.   It was a night-and-day difference.

My full comments are in the gm-volt forum: http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?128977-Test-drove-a-Fusion-Energi-yesterday but here is a copy of my new driving impressions:

 

 

The FFE, in day-to-day driving seems to feel a lot like the Volt with the exception of the ICE engine kicking on when you really "put the spurs" to it.  The electric motor provides similar throttle response to the Volt in "Normal" mode.  I drove their test circuit in the various EV modes:

 

• EV-Auto: In this mode, the ICE really didn't come on in normal driving unless I floored it

• EV-Later: This seems much like my Volt's "Hold" mode in that the electric motor still is active but the ICE runs more often to try to keep the battery charge up.  The ICE still shuts down when it can if you're stopped, coasting, etc.

• EV-Now: In this mode, you're not going to win any speed records or effectively pass other cars very well.  However, even though the 0-60 times suck in the mode, from 0-30 or so it is pretty snappy.  As stated above, though, the ICE engine doesn't come on that much anyway (provided you have battery charge) so it's really not that much different.

 

The real questions in this category comes down if the ~20 mile AER range is adequate and if you mind burning a little bit of gas during hard acceleration such as short on-ramps, turning onto crowed streets or passing on the highway.  I'm still going to give the Volt the nod on this category because it is able to perform at it's peak without burning gas and it has nearly double the AER.  If those two things are not important to your driving situation, it's probably a tie.

 

So now, I'm finishing getting Volt quotes, but it's starting to look like the better lease will be the 2014 FFE.

 

[shaggy314]

In last 1.5 years, I've never seen an Energi on the lot that had a charge on it. I had to call ahead to get a CMax charged so I could see what it was like since the Fusions weren't shipping yet. Whenever I'm at a Ford (charging, service, etc.) I go do a door pull on the handle to see the SOC... always dead.

[eric_n_dfw]

Well, I went ahead and signed papers to lease the 2014 FFE.  Thanks for the advice here and confirmation of the depleted battery theory I had.   For the curious, full details of the deal are in the thread I originally started at gm-volt.com here: http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?128977-Test-drove-a-Fusion-Energi-yesterday&p=1798130#post1798130

 

Guess I'll have to start hanging out here now too!

[Energized]

Welcome to the group!

[Dan's Energi]

LOL, I knew you'd get a FFE.  Congrats!

[eric_n_dfw]

Thanks!

 

We actually haven't driven it much since we picked it up on Tuesday as we're trying to burn down the last ~100 miles on our Volt's lease before turning it back in this weekend.

[Dan's Energi]

LOL, don't go over.  With my luck I'd accidentally drive right through the grace mileage too.

 

We're really enjoying ours.  I wish the FFE had the Volts range (actually more) but I love the features, interior size, looks and everything else.

Edited August 23, 2014 at 04:31 AM by Dan's Energi

[eric_n_dfw]

We turned the Volt in last night with about 75 miles left on the lease, an "empty" battery and about 20 miles worth of gasoline! :o)

 

I'm loving the FFE so far, my wife misses the Volt's EV acceleration a bit.