How to determine if plug-in makes financial sense?

[Andrew Stein]

I'm at the end of my current lease (Hyundai Sonata Turbo) and am considering whether to go with the Energi or a more conventional car in the $25-$28k range.   I just moved and my new commute is only 2 miles.   I expect almost all of my weekday driving to be on battery.  I'm guessing up to 100 miles on weekends for chores and entertainment.   I'm curious as to if I'll see significant savings versus, say, a conventional Honda Accord.

[EnergiCCAATS]

I'm at the end of my current lease (Hyundai Sonata Turbo) and am considering whether to go with the Energi or a more conventional car in the $25-$28k range.   I just moved and my new commute is only 2 miles.   I expect almost all of my weekday driving to be on battery.  I'm guessing up to 100 miles on weekends for chores and entertainment.   I'm curious as to if I'll see significant savings versus, say, a conventional Honda Accord.

 

My wife's commute is 21 miles one way, and most of her trips around town are 30 miles or so round trip. We have had the FFE for almost 7 weeks, put over 3500 miles on it, AND she has been about 650 miles of highway driving in hybrid mode.  She's only filled up the tank twice, so I'm guessing she's saved almost $350 in gas over a "conventional" car at 30 mpg average. Back out about $25 for charging over those 7 weeks, and she has saved over $300 in "energy cost" so far vs. if we had purchased a traditional car (i.e. Accord or regular Fusion).  

[EnergiCCAATS]

FYI, you can get a FFE SE pretty comparatively equipped to an Accord for less than $30K if you shop around.  We would have paid about $31K after the tax refund for our FFE Titanium if we had purchased, but we leased.

[Andrew Stein]

Thanks!   Going to the Ford dealership tomorrow to check out the SE and Titaniums...

[jeff_h]

Thanks!   Going to the Ford dealership tomorrow to check out the SE and Titaniums...

 

1 - What is your current cost per kWh for electricity?  That would be a factor to consider, as once you start driving around on EV you may find yourself taking more around-town trips.

 

2 - If the above is a decent rate, the Energi is great as a hedge against spikes in gas prices due to whatever situations.  So if gas goes to $4.50/gallon and you are driving an Energi and only fill the tank once per month (several here fill far less often than that), it won't really affect you like others with conventional cars.

[Andrew Stein]

1 - What is your current cost per kWh for electricity?  That would be a factor to consider, as once you start driving around on EV you may find yourself taking more around-town trips.

 

2 - If the above is a decent rate, the Energi is great as a hedge against spikes in gas prices due to whatever situations.  So if gas goes to $4.50/gallon and you are driving an Energi and only fill the tank once per month (several here fill far less often than that), it won't really affect you like others with conventional cars.

 

Not sure yet.  We just moved into our new place the other day and I'll need to research that.

[Andrew Stein]

Picked one up over the weekend (Titanium).  Was able to make trips to grocery store and commute without using gas.   Pretty fun. :)

Edited July 21, 2014 at 12:08 PM by Andrew Stein

[shaggy314]

What sold it for me is that I can charge at work, which is 19 miles from home... After 13 months I'm running around 93% electric most of the time. When I did the math, it was almost a toss up if I couldn't charge at work over a Fusion Hybid as I've have to keep the Energi SO long to make up the original 2013 mark ups. Now, with the $4k price drop of last December AND Texas offering a $2.5k rebate, the Energi is SUCH a deal.

[jdbob]

Here's a tool for determining gas&electricity use for your commute with various cars: http://gis.its.ucdavis.edu/evexplorer/

[jallen68]

_{Thanks for this tool. It seems to be very accurate.  Do you have anything else that may be helpful.  I am a community college teacher and would love to pass this tool and any others on to my students.} 

[jdbob]

_{Thanks for this tool. It seems to be very accurate.  Do you have anything else that may be helpful.  I am a community college teacher and would love to pass this tool and any others on to my students.} 

 

I'm not sure where I found that link, but here is a good site for EV news: http://insideevs.com/

 

Two other sites that aren't strictly EV but sometimes have good articles: http://www.greencarreports.com/news and http://www.cleanmpg.com/

[Griff]

The Energi Titanium is almost the same cost as the Hybrid Titanium, once you figure in the $4007 rebate. The Hybrid Titanium is $32,170 the Energi Titanium is $36,500. Subtract $4,007 and it is now $32,500.  A difference of $330. It's an absolute no-brainer for anyone to get the Energi at this point. This doesn't even include any other state incentives. If anyone is thinking about the Hybrid Titanium, you ought to think again.

[murphy]

One point to consider.  The $4007 is not a rebate.  It is a tax credit.  If you don't earn enough money to owe at least $4007 in federal taxes you will not receive the full credit.

[Griff]

Bad wording on my end. If you make at least $30,000/year, I think you should be good. Your employer should have taken at least that, if not more, out of your paycheck.

[jeff_h]

Bad wording on my end. If you make at least $30,000/year, I think you should be good. Your employer should have taken at least that, if not more, out of your paycheck.

 

It's not about the amount of withholding, it's about the amount of tax liability to determine if that is more than $4,007.  Someone could file a W-4 with Single/0 and pay in more on purpose just because they want a big tax refund, they pay in $6,000 and have tax liability of $3,000 and are quite happy they are getting such a big refund (yes I know that is not the best thing to do but I bet some still do). Conversely (and I had a co-worker years ago that did this purposefully), someone could file a W-4 with Married/9 to have less taken out of withholding because "they need the money now", and they pay in $1,000 and have a tax liability of $3,000 and are upset that they owe $2,000 they don't have (shows bad planning just like the first scenario, but I bet there are plenty of these too).  In both of these cases, the tax liability is the same.

 

One way to check your tax liability (unless your tax situation or the tax laws have changed, of course) is to look at previous years' returns on the calculated tax amount (I think line 44 on the 1040) and as Murphy notes above, this is a tax credit which would then be deducted against this amount.

[JATR4]

Bad wording on my end. If you make at least $30,000/year, I think you should be good. Your employer should have taken at least that, if not more, out of your paycheck.

Not enough income.  Adjusted gross income of $30,000 generates a 2014 tax liability of $2,524 for a single person with one exemption.  You might lose as much as $1,483 if your income is that low (4007 - 2524).

 

A single person with only one exemption using the standard deduction would owe $4,025 based on adjusted gross income of $40,000.  To get the entire credit you need $40K in income--more if married, etc.

 

Certainly something to consider BEFORE purchasing the car.

Edited August 3, 2014 at 01:54 PM by JATR4

[Griff]

It's not about the amount of withholding, it's about the amount of tax liability to determine if that is more than $4,007.  Someone could file a W-4 with Single/0 and pay in more on purpose just because they want a big tax refund, they pay in $6,000 and have tax liability of $3,000 and are quite happy they are getting such a big refund (yes I know that is not the best thing to do but I bet some still do). Conversely (and I had a co-worker years ago that did this purposefully), someone could file a W-4 with Married/9 to have less taken out of withholding because "they need the money now", and they pay in $1,000 and have a tax liability of $3,000 and are upset that they owe $2,000 they don't have (shows bad planning just like the first scenario, but I bet there are plenty of these too).  In both of these cases, the tax liability is the same.

 

One way to check your tax liability (unless your tax situation or the tax laws have changed, of course) is to look at previous years' returns on the calculated tax amount (I think line 44 on the 1040) and as Murphy notes above, this is a tax credit which would then be deducted against this amount.

Ok. Did some tax calculations. Single/ No kids 1 exemption Income of $40,000= Tax liability of $4,024. Married filing jointly with 2 kids (4 exemptions) income of $67,000 = Tax liability of $4,098.  Unless you filed your W-4 with a crapton of exemptions, I think they would take that much out. Some folks adjust their exemptions to match their projected deductions (mortgage interest, donations, education, etc.) Some just check the box. I guess the question is, if you have other deductions (mortgage, education, childcare, donations) that cancel out what you paid in taxes, do you get that part back as a refund? 

One could argue that the EV tax credit is used to cover the tax liability and the deductions result in the refund. What do you think? 

[Griff]

Never mind. I answered my own question. I got a refund this year. So, the credit can be refunded as long as you owed that much before your withholding. WIthout the tax credit, I would have owed.

[JATR4]

Ok. Did some tax calculations. Single/ No kids 1 exemption Income of $40,000= Tax liability of $4,024. Married filing jointly with 2 kids (4 exemptions) income of $67,000 = Tax liability of $4,098.  Unless you filed your W-4 with a crapton of exemptions, I think they would take that much out. Some folks adjust their exemptions to match their projected deductions (mortgage interest, donations, education, etc.) Some just check the box. I guess the question is, if you have other deductions (mortgage, education, childcare, donations) that cancel out what you paid in taxes, do you get that part back as a refund? 

One could argue that the EV tax credit is used to cover the tax liability and the deductions result in the refund. What do you think? 

If your tax liability is less than $4,007 you get a smaller tax credit.  If you have additional deductions you may lose a portion of the tax credit.

 

As jeff_h said, the amount of the credit is dependent on line 44 of form 1040.  If line 44 is less than $4,007, the tax credit will be less also.

 

P.S.  Additionally, if you have other credits such as education (250) and childcare (1200) and your tax liability is $4,007, you will get those other credits but the vehicle credit will be reduced accordingly.  4007 minus 250 minus 1200 = 2557 (vehicle credit).  Total credit adds up to $4,007--the same as your tax liability.  Your total credits will not exceed your tax liability on line 44.

Edited August 3, 2014 at 04:47 PM by JATR4