Texas Ranger Posted September 15, 2012 at 03:25 AM Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 at 03:25 AM The following site is something that appears to plague the Leaf (and Volt) in hot climates like Phoenix, AZ or Conroe, TX (my town.)http://www.mynissanl...y_Capacity_Loss I know that Ford has improved the battery manufacturing, but I don't know if the chemistry for the Energi is LiFePO4. If so, does anyone have information about Ford's hot weather testing of the Energi or new Hybrid battery pack?I understand that the previous Ford battery chemistry was NiCad which is more tolerant to 100+ degree days.I'm sold on the idea of the Energi, just need some tech data on hot climates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsamp Posted October 25, 2012 at 05:49 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 at 05:49 PM I understand the Fusion Hybrid battery is LiFePO4. I haven't found anything about hi temp performance/issues. Let us know if you hear anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Ranger Posted October 26, 2012 at 05:09 PM Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 at 05:09 PM I understand that the Volt does not this problem. By source says the problem comes from not having liquid cooling. In hot climates the vehicles with only air battery cooling have more degradation. I assume that Ford has liquid battery pack cooling but don't know this for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlugMeIn Posted October 31, 2012 at 02:54 AM Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 at 02:54 AM Nissan Leaf sales have really tanked after the initial launch. They seem to have a hard time selling them now and will continue now that the C-Max Energi and Fusion are out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Ranger Posted November 9, 2012 at 03:27 PM Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 at 03:27 PM I'm a member of the Houston Electric Automobile Association and Ford did a presentation of the C-Max and Focus Electric at last night's meeting. (I got to drive the C-Max.) Ford is apparently well aware of this issue. The presenters said that the battery pack has "active temperature control" for the pack. For hot climates, the pack has fluid cooling - and in cold climates the fluid is heated. This uses a little power, but preserves the life of the battery better. Like all devices, the battery will not last forever - but my Fusion Hybrid shows no real degradation after 3 years and 70K miles. I trust them. One 'feature' that they mentioned is Ford's recommendation to have 20% battery if the car is stored for 1 month - and 50% if it is stored for 6 months (plus disconnect the 12VDC battery.) I think I have the numbers right. This doesn't seem much different than filling the tank when storing a car - to prevent moisture accumulating in the tank. They didn't seem to have any concern about storage in hot climates, as long as proper precautions are taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckJ Posted December 5, 2012 at 09:17 PM Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 at 09:17 PM We've got ,26,000 miles on our 2011 FFH, live in the Dallas area and have had no problem with the battery in the summer heat. In fact, the worst mileage comes in the winter because the engine has to run to heat the cabin. ChuckJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsamp Posted December 5, 2012 at 11:10 PM Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 at 11:10 PM 2010-2012 Fusion Hybrids have NiMH batteries which do not have the problem in the heat like LiFePO4 batteries do. Different animal. Nice to hear Ford has this issue covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluggedin Posted December 6, 2012 at 01:37 AM Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 at 01:37 AM This article says the battery size in the C Max Energi is 7.6 kWh and produces peak power of 35 kW but does not talk about how the battery is cooled or heated. Should be the same size in Fusion Energi too, don't you think? Here is the article:http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1211_2013_ford_c_max_energi/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluggedin Posted December 9, 2012 at 01:27 PM Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 at 01:27 PM I'm a member of the Houston Electric Automobile Association and Ford did a presentation of the C-Max and Focus Electric at last night's meeting. (I got to drive the C-Max.) Ford is apparently well aware of this issue. The presenters said that the battery pack has "active temperature control" for the pack. For hot climates, the pack has fluid cooling - and in cold climates the fluid is heated. This uses a little power, but preserves the life of the battery better. Like all devices, the battery will not last forever - but my Fusion Hybrid shows no real degradation after 3 years and 70K miles. I trust them. One 'feature' that they mentioned is Ford's recommendation to have 20% battery if the car is stored for 1 month - and 50% if it is stored for 6 months (plus disconnect the 12VDC battery.) I think I have the numbers right. This doesn't seem much different than filling the tank when storing a car - to prevent moisture accumulating in the tank.They didn't seem to have any concern about storage in hot climates, as long as proper precautions are taken.In Tucson we can have up to 110-115 degree temps during the summer and down to 18 degree night time temps during the winter. It is supposed to be 28 degrees this coming Tuesday. So I am concerned about how the Energi is cooled/heated. With that in mind I called my salesman and asked him the question. He did not know, of course. But said he would look into it for me. My guy is pretty trustworthy so I feel pretty comfortable he has asked the question of someone at Ford but after a couple of days, I have no answer. I will let you if or when I do. Even when Ford finally gets around to putting the options and pricing on their web site this type of information will not be there so it is like buying a pig-in-a-poke. And a very expensive pig at that. Texas Ranger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluggedin Posted December 10, 2012 at 02:56 PM Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 at 02:56 PM Here is an Emergency Response Guide that shows the battery location for the 2013 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid, the Fusion Hybrid and the Fusion Energi. See page 15:http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/index.php?/topic/218-battery-pack-durability-in-hot-climate/page__pid__577&do=findComment&comment=577 Still no data on how the batteries are cooled or the trunk capacities though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rprobst Posted December 11, 2012 at 05:43 PM Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 at 05:43 PM Here is an Emergency Response Guide ... Pluggedin, that link is not working for me -- just puts me back to this same forum. Copy-&-paste error? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluggedin Posted December 14, 2012 at 03:54 PM Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 at 03:54 PM (edited) Pluggedin, that link is not working for me -- just puts me back to this same forum. Copy-&-paste error?Ooops. Try this and go to page 15, if it works for you.http://www.evsafetyt...ybrid%20ERG.pdf Edited December 14, 2012 at 03:55 PM by pluggedin rprobst 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Ranger Posted January 1, 2013 at 12:37 AM Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 at 12:37 AM Thanks for all of your information.I decided to purchase a 2013 Fusion Hybrid, not the Energi. I don't see documents indicating that there is any liquid cooling. I believe that the pack is air cooled and will use ambient air from the cabin. I do not know how much heat energy is dissipated this way. My 2013 will cruise at freeway speeds (<63 MPH) for a while, so I believe that the energy consumption would warm up the High Voltage battery pack at this condition. I'm just guessing that most of us will not drive a car un-air conditioned at very high temps, so this may not be an issue (the cabin air temp at the human comfort level is low enough to provide heat transfer away from the HV battery.) I'm hoping that's correct - or that the Blue Oval engineers have a high-temp shutdown feature to save the battery if it encounters extreme temperatures.That being said, it's really cool to coast in EV mode at freeway speeds! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluggedin Posted January 1, 2013 at 04:36 PM Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 at 04:36 PM (edited) I'm a member of the Houston Electric Automobile Association and Ford did a presentation of the C-Max and Focus Electric at last night's meeting. (I got to drive the C-Max.) Ford is apparently well aware of this issue. The presenters said that the battery pack has "active temperature control" for the pack. For hot climates, the pack has fluid cooling - and in cold climates the fluid is heated. This uses a little power, but preserves the life of the battery better. Like all devices, the battery will not last forever - but my Fusion Hybrid shows no real degradation after 3 years and 70K miles. I trust them. Thanks for all of your information.I decided to purchase a 2013 Fusion Hybrid, not the Energi. I don't see documents indicating that there is any liquid cooling. I believe that the pack is air cooled and will use ambient air from the cabin. I do not know how much heat energy is dissipated this way. My 2013 will cruise at freeway speeds (<63 MPH) for a while, so I believe that the energy consumption would warm up the High Voltage battery pack at this condition. I'm just guessing that most of us will not drive a car un-air conditioned at very high temps, so this may not be an issue (the cabin air temp at the human comfort level is low enough to provide heat transfer away from the HV battery.) I'm hoping that's correct - or that the Blue Oval engineers have a high-temp shutdown feature to save the battery if it encounters extreme temperatures.That being said, it's really cool to coast in EV mode at freeway speeds! :)I got an answer back from my salesman last week concerning how the Energi batteries are cooled (see my post above) and he said the batteries are both air and fluid cooled in the Energi. I have not posted those comments yet because I wanted to follow up with him to find out from whom and where he got that info and does he have anything that says those things in print. I will do that in the next day or two and post what I find. What my salesman said supports what you posted on November 9th, Texas Ranger, that the Energi batteries will be heated and cooled through a liquid system of some design. If you are driving highway speeds above 63 MPH you will limited to that speed, in battery mode, with the Fusion Hybrid but not so with the Energi. If I remember right the scuttle butt is that the Energi will be capable of highway speed of up to 80 MPH in battery mode. Having said all of that, if you do not drive multiple short commutes during the month I don't see the Energi being the right choice for anyone, considering what it costs to move up to the plug-in. My two cents. Edited January 1, 2013 at 04:37 PM by pluggedin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rprobst Posted January 1, 2013 at 06:01 PM Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 at 06:01 PM Try this and go to page 15 ...[/url] Wow, great picture of the Energi battery! Thanks, pluggedin! Someone some time before posted that he had been told by a sales person that the Energi rear seats do fold down, 60-40. I'm having a hard time believing that, seeing how large the battery is. The Honda Accord plug-in rear seats do not fold down, reportedly. I suspect that that sales person was confused about the difference between a Fusion Hybrid and Fusion Energi. Of course, I'm open to being pleasantly surprised. Can't wait until one of us has some quality time in a Fusion Energi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluggedin Posted January 1, 2013 at 06:22 PM Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 at 06:22 PM Wow, great picture of the Energi battery! Thanks, pluggedin! Someone some time before posted that he had been told by a sales person that the Energi rear seats do fold down, 60-40. I'm having a hard time believing that, seeing how large the battery is. The Honda Accord plug-in rear seats do not fold down, reportedly. I suspect that that sales person was confused about the difference between a Fusion Hybrid and Fusion Energi. Of course, I'm open to being pleasantly surprised. Can't wait until one of us has some quality time in a Fusion Energi.Thanks for the comment rprobst. Yes, the 60-40 split was a comment my guy made when we were looking at the order form while I was ordering my Energi in November. The Titanium Fusion Hybrid Plug-In order form showed the rear seat as a "60/40" and I saw it too, but it meant nothing to me. However, my salesman said it told him the seats will fold forward. Now, whether the battery size, in the Energi, will allow for a pass through is another story all together. I could sure use a pass through, but time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rprobst Posted January 1, 2013 at 07:25 PM Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 at 07:25 PM Oh, it was your sales guy! Sorry for my lousy memory... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rprobst Posted January 7, 2013 at 02:45 AM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 02:45 AM Thanks for the comment rprobst. Yes, the 60-40 split was a comment my guy made when we were looking at the order form while I was ordering my Energi in November. The Titanium Fusion Hybrid Plug-In order form showed the rear seat as a "60/40" and I saw it too, but it meant nothing to me. However, my salesman said it told him the seats will fold forward. Now, whether the battery size, in the Energi, will allow for a pass through is another story all together. I could sure use a pass through, but time will tell. Until I thought about your comment for a while, I believed that fold-down rear seats only make sense with a pass-through from the trunk. But now I realize that even if there is no pass-through with the Energi, it would still be a good feature to be able to flip the rear seats down to have a flat cargo surface and to protect the seat material. Yes, I could use a pass-through, but I could also use fold-down rear seats without a pass-through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluggedin Posted January 7, 2013 at 03:46 PM Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 at 03:46 PM Until I thought about your comment for a while, I believed that fold-down rear seats only make sense with a pass-through from the trunk. But now I realize that even if there is no pass-through with the Energi, it would still be a good feature to be able to flip the rear seats down to have a flat cargo surface and to protect the seat material. Yes, I could use a pass-through, but I could also use fold-down rear seats without a pass-through.Just in case there is no pass-through, I looked to see if there are will be any roof mounted carriers available for the 2013 Fusion and there are some. There are times when I need to get some long itmes home from Home Depot, or where ever, so I may have to resort to that if there is no pass-through. Or rent a truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelld Posted July 17, 2015 at 11:58 AM Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 at 11:58 AM Some data on the Energi battery pack. http://energy.gov/eere/vehicles/downloads/avta-2013-ford-fusion-energi-phev-testing-results Hybridbear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy314 Posted August 5, 2015 at 04:04 AM Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 at 04:04 AM Energi's have air cooling, Focus is liquid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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