Mike Antonoff Posted March 27, 2014 at 01:34 PM Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 at 01:34 PM So, I wanted a spare charger for my vehicle and found them to be stupidly expensive. I did some research on them, and it appears the charging apparatus itself does nothing except give status lights. It does not contain a transformer or a regulator, those things must be located internally in the engine and are not reliant on the charger itself. So, as someone who deals with electric circuits at work, I want to create my own cord. I am thinking of getting the same handle Ford uses and wiring directly to AC power. What would be the reason this would not work? Anyone tried this or know of something I am missing about the Ford supplied charger besides status lights? The Ford charger there is not much information on, but the Leviton charger I was able to get information for. The only features I would not have are the following:"Built In Communication verifies proper connections before charging can begin" - which is fancy for ensure circuit is complete"Auto-Restart" feature that enables charging to restart after a minor fault - This one confuses me because I do not know why it would stop charging after a minor fault, something internal to the engine? To me neither of these are worth the extra $500 I would be paying to get their charger. Any info would be appreciated, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blars Posted March 27, 2014 at 01:49 PM Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 at 01:49 PM There has to be other internals on the included ford charger...you can hear a "click" coming from the charger when you plug it into the car, and I doubt the click is from the light turning on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russael Posted March 27, 2014 at 01:51 PM Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 at 01:51 PM The reasons behind getting a commercial charger are these: Homebrew chargers are still expensive due to that J1772 connector and cord. You will still probably spend a few hundred bucks. Yeah, you may save a little though, if money was your top concern. No warranty on a homebrew charger. There may also be issues if something happens to your car's onboard charger as a result of the homebrew one. Companies are VERY quick to go, "Oh, you didn't use a commercially approved charger? No warranty for you!" The "Built In communication verifies proper connections before charging can begin" is a little more fancy than just verifying the circuit is complete. The car's charger communicates with the external charger so it knows what the charger can supply (amps available), what voltage, etc to prevent overloads. Fundamentally, chargers are nothing more than a computer board and a big relay. Auto Restart is sort of similar to an electrical grid auto recloser which will try to bring a circuit back up after a fault (say if a branch shorts out the power lines) a couple of times before it fails completely, requiring service. The charger also has a randomized count-down timer after power fails and recovers. This prevents a huge surge of power as each vehicle charger reconnects to the grid to resume charging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Antonoff Posted March 27, 2014 at 01:59 PM Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 at 01:59 PM The reasons behind getting a commercial charger are these: Homebrew chargers are still expensive due to that J1772 connector and cord. You will still probably spend a few hundred bucks. Yeah, you may save a little though, if money was your top concern. No warranty on a homebrew charger. There may also be issues if something happens to your car's onboard charger as a result of the homebrew one. Companies are VERY quick to go, "Oh, you didn't use a commercially approved charger? No warranty for you!" The "Built In communication verifies proper connections before charging can begin" is a little more fancy than just verifying the circuit is complete. The car's charger communicates with the external charger so it knows what the charger can supply (amps available), what voltage, etc to prevent overloads. Fundamentally, chargers are nothing more than a computer board and a big relay. Auto Restart is sort of similar to an electrical grid auto recloser which will try to bring a circuit back up after a fault (say if a branch shorts out the power lines) a couple of times before it fails completely, requiring service. The charger also has a randomized count-down timer after power fails and recovers. This prevents a huge surge of power as each vehicle charger reconnects to the grid to resume charging. The J1772 is actually pretty cheap! But lets go over some other things you said, mainly the built in communications. You said the car communicates with charger to determine what amps/voltage to supply. But the actual regulating of the amps/voltage into the battery is happening where? If it is in the car, then that doesn't matter if the car is getting those details from the charger. The car would do with the incoming voltage whatever it needs to. So for example, what is the difference in the charger of the 120V and the 240V? I do not have the 240V, but electrically, the only difference would be the L1 and L2 prongs are both powered, and the car handles that accordingly. Now if you are telling me the external charger is what tells the car how to handle the incoming voltage/amperage, then its an issue. None of the info on any of the chargers say they have any type of regulator in them though. What I really need to get my hands on is a broken charger to open it up and see what is actually happening. And Blars, that click you hear is most likely just a relay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russael Posted March 27, 2014 at 02:24 PM Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 at 02:24 PM The J1772 is actually pretty cheap! But lets go over some other things you said, mainly the built in communications. You said the car communicates with charger to determine what amps/voltage to supply. But the actual regulating of the amps/voltage into the battery is happening where? If it is in the car, then that doesn't matter if the car is getting those details from the charger. The car would do with the incoming voltage whatever it needs to. So for example, what is the difference in the charger of the 120V and the 240V? I do not have the 240V, but electrically, the only difference would be the L1 and L2 prongs are both powered, and the car handles that accordingly. Now if you are telling me the external charger is what tells the car how to handle the incoming voltage/amperage, then its an issue. None of the info on any of the chargers say they have any type of regulator in them though. What I really need to get my hands on is a broken charger to open it up and see what is actually happening. And Blars, that click you hear is most likely just a relay. The regulation of the current IS handled by the onboard charger in the car. However, the car must know the specs of the external charger. The car is fully capable of drawing MORE than certain chargers can supply, but without that communication, the car doesn't know what the limits are. They do make multiple EVSEs... they have a 12A and a 16A 120v charging stations, and various 240v capacities too. Without your car knowing that limit, it causes problems. An analogy: You go to your bank to make a withdraw from your account. You want to withdraw 100 dollars without knowing how much is REALLY in your account, and the bank teller doesn't tell you what your balance is (the negotiation process between the car and charger). If you have 50 dollars in your account, you're overdrawn (the charger melts, risk of fire, etc). If you have more in your account than you're withdrawing, nothing happens (charger is capable of more supply than the car requires). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Antonoff Posted March 27, 2014 at 04:45 PM Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 at 04:45 PM The regulation of the current IS handled by the onboard charger in the car. However, the car must know the specs of the external charger. The car is fully capable of drawing MORE than certain chargers can supply, but without that communication, the car doesn't know what the limits are. They do make multiple EVSEs... they have a 12A and a 16A 120v charging stations, and various 240v capacities too. Without your car knowing that limit, it causes problems. An analogy: You go to your bank to make a withdraw from your account. You want to withdraw 100 dollars without knowing how much is REALLY in your account, and the bank teller doesn't tell you what your balance is (the negotiation process between the car and charger). If you have 50 dollars in your account, you're overdrawn (the charger melts, risk of fire, etc). If you have more in your account than you're withdrawing, nothing happens (charger is capable of more supply than the car requires). I understand what you are saying. I'm curious as to what the default is of the car then? If a charger was defective and caused communication issues, the car would either A not charge at all, or B go to a default amperage setting. The handle is rated up to 20 amps and I can run a line being able to handle 20 amps to prevent wire melting, but i'm curious as to what the vehicle would default the charge rate to without the handle communication? Hmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Antonoff Posted March 27, 2014 at 05:00 PM Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 at 05:00 PM The regulation of the current IS handled by the onboard charger in the car. However, the car must know the specs of the external charger. The car is fully capable of drawing MORE than certain chargers can supply, but without that communication, the car doesn't know what the limits are. They do make multiple EVSEs... they have a 12A and a 16A 120v charging stations, and various 240v capacities too. Without your car knowing that limit, it causes problems. An analogy: You go to your bank to make a withdraw from your account. You want to withdraw 100 dollars without knowing how much is REALLY in your account, and the bank teller doesn't tell you what your balance is (the negotiation process between the car and charger). If you have 50 dollars in your account, you're overdrawn (the charger melts, risk of fire, etc). If you have more in your account than you're withdrawing, nothing happens (charger is capable of more supply than the car requires). Actually it does seem without that sensing it won't charge on the current chargers. But doing a little more research on the home made, i can find the board that has the controls to send the details through the sensor wire to the car. Simple circuit with a couple relays. Thanks for the fore-warning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russael Posted March 27, 2014 at 05:17 PM Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 at 05:17 PM You can use an Arduino as a controller: http://www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-EV-J1772-Charging-Station/ Since you're in to homebrew, that'll be worth a look. As far as I know, if the car cannot communicate with the charger, it won't use it or will generate some sort of fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtshinn Posted March 28, 2014 at 01:09 PM Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 at 01:09 PM I, and others are building/have built this kit:https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/emw/emw-juicebox-an-open-source-level-2-ev-charging-st$99 w/out cable/connector (I got a cable/connector for $96 on Amazon) I haven't finished mine (even though it's not that difficult, I've just been bery busy getting married, woking on my house, etc.), but others have and like it.You can also get it in various stages of asssembly Check out the thread on the C-Max Enrgy forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerdia Posted March 30, 2014 at 02:26 AM Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 at 02:26 AM (edited) if I may politely add my 2 cents here, If you went ahead a purchased a beautiful 42K car, why would you skimp on a $500 charger? why risk damaging the car?I purchased the turbo cord and it charges my '14 FFE in 2hrs 4min. Good luck in whatever you decide. Edited March 31, 2014 at 10:01 AM by gerdia blars and TX NRG 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seadiel Posted March 31, 2014 at 08:42 PM Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 at 08:42 PM I got a Leviton EVB32-M5L from amazon on a warehouse deal for $560. This charger can output more power then the car can accept. I would suggest waiting/looking for deals to come along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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