CA HOV sticker program status

[Cairo94507]

The HOV lanes are getting so full that they are often moving no faster than other lanes.  Of course, that could be due to the large violation rate we see.  All you have to do is sit in a non HOV lane and watch the cars as they go by.  (My car was in the shop for two weeks when a black thug broke out the side window and stole stuff- all on color video, so I was in a rental car for two weeks watching people go by with their stickers.)  Tons of violators driving POS cars, looking like urban thugs with their hoodies pulled up covering their faces (does anyone but thug crooks do this when it is 70 degrees out and sunny?)  I wish the CHP would work these lanes regularly and write some tickets for a change.  

[Hybridbear]

Of course, that could be due to the large violation rate we see.

In MN the State Patrol regularly watches the lanes for violators & writes tickets. There have even been newspaper articles about how many hundreds of violators are ticketed a year, it's an average of many per day. Even still, there are still a lot of cheaters in the HOV lanes. In MN single occupant vehicles can drive in the lanes if they pay a toll. Sometimes people will have a transponder but turn it off when going under the charge stations so that they don't get charged. But the State Patrol have technology in their cars that if they're near enough to you they can see if your transponder is on & if you've paid.

[Fat Fusion]

I found this 2015 bill that passed the CA Senate, was referred to the Assembly on May 22nd, and is currently in the Transportation Committee:

 

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160SB39

 

If you're a California resident, I would suggest writing to your representative in the Assembly and asking him/her to support this bill.

 

Why in the hell would I support this bill?  EACH and EVERY one of those stickers diminishes the value of mine.  What am I missing?  I'll be sure to contact my rep and ask them to vote against it.  Seems like a no brainer.

[ls973800]

EACH and EVERY one of those stickers diminishes the value of mine.

 

If what I read means the state wants to issue more stickers, you are against that, correct?

 

If so, sounds like a case of "I got mine" and I am entitled to one but you aren't!

 

If that is not what you are saying, sorry if I misunderstood.

[jeff_h]

If so, sounds like a case of "I got mine" and I am entitled to one but you aren't!

 

Sounds more like a case of "early bird gets the worm" where the early adopters would keep their benefits but later adopters would not be able to join in.  This is the same that happened in VA back in 2006 when they stopped issuing a certain type of special plate for use in the HOV lanes, so if you got one of those types from about 2000-2006 you were "in" but after that, sorry they are no longer available to keep the HOV lanes from jamming up too much.

[lonzo71]

Sounds more like a case of "early bird gets the worm" where the early adopters would keep their benefits but later adopters would not be able to join in.  This is the same that happened in VA back in 2006 when they stopped issuing a certain type of special plate for use in the HOV lanes, so if you got one of those types from about 2000-2006 you were "in" but after that, sorry they are no longer available to keep the HOV lanes from jamming up too much.

I had one of those plates...and loved it..but then I moved to Maryland in 07...and then I had to wait till last July to use the HOV in Maryland. Sadly, the cops dont enforce but once in a blue moon and even then, only have 1-2 cop cars for just the beginning of the lanes...people will always try and get away with anything..we see it with speeding..we'll see  it with everything else....

[Fat Fusion]

EACH and EVERY one of those stickers diminishes the value of mine.

 

If what I read means the state wants to issue more stickers, you are against that, correct?

 

If so, sounds like a case of "I got mine" and I am entitled to one but you aren't!

 

If that is not what you are saying, sorry if I misunderstood.

 

It's not a "I got mine" situation at all.  If someone wants to buy a car with a sticker they can.  It just won't be a brand spankin' new car.

 

I am completely against the state issuing more stickers.  Thanks to the link provided, I wrote to my assemblyman stating as such.  It has absolutely nothing to do with entitlement, it has to do with economics.  I paid a large premium to buy a car to be able to enjoy the time savings in my commute, and I feel somewhat betrayed by my government who seems to be in cahoots with the automakers.  It sure feels like they have an automatic increase in the number of stickers each time it goes to a vote.  Meanwhile the dealer gets to use it as a scare tactic to sell more cars each time the sticker allotment is about up.

 

If the stickers #'s are not increased, my car has value = X.  If more stickers are issued, the value of my car is X-something.  It's the value of the car to me that is important here.  If X-something gets too low, then we start selling our cars since they no longer provide the return on investment.  For example, if the state were to issue 500,000 stickers I would sell my car today.  Selling my car today increases the supply of cars for sale and the value of everyone's car goes down too.  And the endgame scenario is an HOV lane going the same speed as the others.  I pay $850 a month on my Fusion and I have two other cars I could drive if the HOV lane gridlocks.  I would have zero problem selling the Fusion and driving my Super Duty Crew Cab 4x4 again, if the HOV lane population gets much worse.  I did it for 15 years.

 

So what am I missing?

[stevedebi]

It's not a "I got mine" situation at all.  If someone wants to buy a car with a sticker they can.  It just won't be a brand spankin' new car.

 

I am completely against the state issuing more stickers.  Thanks to the link provided, I wrote to my assemblyman stating as such.  It has absolutely nothing to do with entitlement, it has to do with economics.  I paid a large premium to buy a car to be able to enjoy the time savings in my commute, and I feel somewhat betrayed by my government who seems to be in cahoots with the automakers.  It sure feels like they have an automatic increase in the number of stickers each time it goes to a vote.  Meanwhile the dealer gets to use it as a scare tactic to sell more cars each time the sticker allotment is about up.

 

If the stickers #'s are not increased, my car has value = X.  If more stickers are issued, the value of my car is X-something.  It's the value of the car to me that is important here.  If X-something gets too low, then we start selling our cars since they no longer provide the return on investment.  For example, if the state were to issue 500,000 stickers I would sell my car today.  Selling my car today increases the supply of cars for sale and the value of everyone's car goes down too.  And the endgame scenario is an HOV lane going the same speed as the others.  I pay $850 a month on my Fusion and I have two other cars I could drive if the HOV lane gridlocks.  I would have zero problem selling the Fusion and driving my Super Duty Crew Cab 4x4 again, if the HOV lane population gets much worse.  I did it for 15 years.

 

So what am I missing?

$850 a month? Ouch. I think that is the highest payment I've seen.

 

The stickers expire anyway in 2019, I think in June but I'm not postive. Of course, they could extend the period as well; they did it for the original Prius yellow stickers. However, here in CA, I think they won't do it. There are already plenty of folks who are sold on "green" cars. The HOV access is an incentive to buy cars that people already want here.

 

It is true that the cars are worth more if resold, if they have the HOV access. But I'm not sure they will command the 4K that the Prius did several years ago. There are already so many cars that can use the HOV that it is less important.

[Russael]

Well, I suppose you could just actually carpool and get access to the lanes that way. :)  Looks like some of them require minimum 2, others 3.  The spirit of the HOV lane is to move more people, not more cars.

 

And if the highway turns in to gridlock, would it be faster to just take surface streets at that point, or do they get jammed up as bad as the highway does?

 

And as far as an 850/mo car payment goes... he may be including insurance with that.  If not, he may have put down a low down payment and went with a shorter term loan.

Edited June 2, 2015 at 04:19 PM by Russael

[stevedebi]

Well, I suppose you could just actually carpool and get access to the lanes that way. :)  Looks like some of them require minimum 2, others 3.  The spirit of the HOV lane is to move more people, not more cars.

 

And if the highway turns in to gridlock, would it be faster to just take surface streets at that point, or do they get jammed up as bad as the highway does?

 

And as far as an 850/mo car payment goes... he may be including insurance with that.  If not, he may have put down a low down payment and went with a shorter term loan.

I figured the shorter term loan. That would be about right for a three year loan. Depends on what model and options he got. Most folks don't include insurance costs in their numbers, or at least I don't.

[Hybridbear]

Car payment? What's that? ;) Our car is paid for and now we're saving up for when we decide to replace the Energi in probably 4-5 years.

[Blastphemy]

Why in the hell would I support this bill?  EACH and EVERY one of those stickers diminishes the value of mine.  What am I missing?  I'll be sure to contact my rep and ask them to vote against it.  Seems like a no brainer.

 

Seems a rather selfish position, dude. The green sticker incentive is not in place to make your car worth more, but to encourage people to purchase low-emission vehicles. But because you got yours then no one else should get one? Wow.

[lonzo71]

Though I dont live in CA, I can see the point...is it about selling cars? Is it about getting people moving? Is it about low emissions? Is it all the above? Sooner or later, its not going to matter because one day, everybody will have a hybrid/plug in...and you'll need 2/3 people or we'll be flying or auto driving....

[Timewellspent]

Though I dont live in CA, I can see the point...is it about selling cars? Is it about getting people moving? Is it about low emissions? Is it all the above? Sooner or later, its not going to matter because one day, everybody will have a hybrid/plug in...and you'll need 2/3 people or we'll be flying or auto driving....

 

Here I thought you were going to say it didn't matter because CA was going to fall into the ocean ;)

[Energitic]

Car payment? What's that? ;) Our car is paid for and now we're saving up for when we decide to replace the Energi in probably 4-5 years.

 

:thumbsup:

 

In fact, taking into account the federal tax credit and CA rebate, I paid barely more for my Energi than I would have for a regular Fusion. Counting the gas savings over a few years (I have a short commute and currently run over 100 MGP), I'll probably come out ahead. The HOV access is just the cherry on top for me. And where I drive the HOV lanes are still significantly faster than the other lanes.

[Fat Fusion]

$850 a month? Ouch. I think that is the highest payment I've seen.

 

The stickers expire anyway in 2019, I think in June but I'm not postive. Of course, they could extend the period as well; they did it for the original Prius yellow stickers. However, here in CA, I think they won't do it. There are already plenty of folks who are sold on "green" cars. The HOV access is an incentive to buy cars that people already want here.

 

It is true that the cars are worth more if resold, if they have the HOV access. But I'm not sure they will command the 4K that the Prius did several years ago. There are already so many cars that can use the HOV that it is less important.

 

I bought a fairly high end model and put zero down.  It's a five year loan at 2%.  Your last line sums up my frustration.

 

Well, I suppose you could just actually carpool and get access to the lanes that way. :)  Looks like some of them require minimum 2, others 3.  The spirit of the HOV lane is to move more people, not more cars.

 

And if the highway turns in to gridlock, would it be faster to just take surface streets at that point, or do they get jammed up as bad as the highway does?

 

And as far as an 850/mo car payment goes... he may be including insurance with that.  If not, he may have put down a low down payment and went with a shorter term loan.

 

Honestly I can't quite put my finger on what the current spirit of the HOV lane is.  It used to be to reduce the number of cars on the road to lower pollution.  Since that was enacted, the amount of pollution any given car creates on average is miniscule.  The current problem is gridlock, at least in the Bay Area.

 

If the highway turns to gridlock, which it does, I keep having to move my work hours earlier.  As it is, I leave the house at 6-6:30 am.  Nice 20 min commute for the ~17 miles.  Today I had to stay late, almost to 5pm.  The HOV lane on 101 was gridlocked.  The other lanes were moving equally fast.  My sticker was worth zero.  Too many stickers, and to be fair too many cheaters have brought it to the saturation point.  That lane isn't just jammed at 5 either.  It jams at about 4 every day.  

 

Seems a rather selfish position, dude. The green sticker incentive is not in place to make your car worth more, but to encourage people to purchase low-emission vehicles. But because you got yours then no one else should get one? Wow.

 

Wow all you want.  I didn't buy the car to have it be worth more.  I expect to take a large traditional accounting loss around 2019 when the green sticker expires.  I did buy it because of the VALUE that is provides.  My VALUE that I decided upon when buying was based in large part by the shortened commute times.  My VALUE diminishes with each additional sticker printed and used.  

 

How many more stickers is ok?  50,000? 500,000?  At what point do you just wave the stickers and anyone with the Enegi or Volt or BMW or Leaf or Tesla or Fiat or Fisker or whatever can just drive in the lane?  Just because a little of something is good, it doesn't mean that a lot of something is better.  

 

Though I dont live in CA, I can see the point...is it about selling cars? Is it about getting people moving? Is it about low emissions? Is it all the above? Sooner or later, its not going to matter because one day, everybody will have a hybrid/plug in...and you'll need 2/3 people or we'll be flying or auto driving....

 

It's whatever the liberal politicians that rule this state feel will help them sleep best at night.  It started to keep cars off the road, but that is clearly not the goal now.  Right now, the well off can afford these cars and the working masses are shunned out.

[stevedebi]

Having the HOV stickers was a factor in my decision to purchase last fall. I expect to need the HOV lane for my commute.

 

As to purpose, I personally believe the purpose of the HOV lane is to encourage drivers to carpool, but in practice what it does is punish those who dont (provided the lanes are any faster). If they really wanted to reduce pollution or save gas, they would put the gas hogs over there, and make the hybrids use the slow lanes, because the gas hog SUVs and such are more efficient when moving, and the hybrids are more efficient in stop and go. That would be totally counterproductive for encouraging saving gas, I know.

 

I believe here in LA the Feds have complained because the HOV lanes are not moving fast enough, or are too packed. Evidently there are rules about this stuff and in impact Fed funding for the freeways.

[lonzo71]

It's whatever the liberal politicians that rule this state feel will help them sleep best at night.  It started to keep cars off the road, but that is clearly not the goal now.  Right now, the well off can afford these cars and the working masses are shunned out.

 

It's whatever the liberal politicians that rule this state feel will help them sleep best at night.  It started to keep cars off the road, but that is clearly not the goal now.  Right now, the well off can afford these cars and the working masses are shunned out.

Hey, i hear ya, In the DC metro area, its worse. We have the #2 traffic in the nation, We have Virginia added HOT-3 ( HOV-3+toll) lanes, we have Maryland that have HOV-2 lanes, Neither state will make an agreement so those that can use the HOV be allowed in both states. The Feds wont take action even though they own the highway system in this country. I have a 42 miles commute from Maryland to Virginia. In the mornings, it takes about an hour. I work 9 hours, leave around 4 and dont get home till almost 6. Mostly because maryland doesnt enforce or seperate the HOV lane from the reg lanes but also because Virginia allowed the HOT lanes to end on the left side of the highway, which once again, slows traffic down to a near stop. I never understood why Virginia made some off ramps to merge left of a highway...

 

Oh and Viginia is a Rep state, Maryland a Dem.....and we all pay the price of it, no matter who is in charge

[Blastphemy]

I am completely against the state issuing more stickers.  Thanks to the link provided, I wrote to my assemblyman stating as such.  It has absolutely nothing to do with entitlement, it has to do with economics.  I paid a large premium to buy a car to be able to enjoy the time savings in my commute, and I feel somewhat betrayed by my government who seems to be in cahoots with the automakers.  It sure feels like they have an automatic increase in the number of stickers each time it goes to a vote.  Meanwhile the dealer gets to use it as a scare tactic to sell more cars each time the sticker allotment is about up.

 

If the stickers #'s are not increased, my car has value = X.  If more stickers are issued, the value of my car is X-something.  It's the value of the car to me that is important here.  If X-something gets too low, then we start selling our cars since they no longer provide the return on investment.  For example, if the state were to issue 500,000 stickers I would sell my car today.  Selling my car today increases the supply of cars for sale and the value of everyone's car goes down too.  And the endgame scenario is an HOV lane going the same speed as the others.  I pay $850 a month on my Fusion and I have two other cars I could drive if the HOV lane gridlocks.  I would have zero problem selling the Fusion and driving my Super Duty Crew Cab 4x4 again, if the HOV lane population gets much worse.  I did it for 15 years.

 

It's looking like you may have to suffer the X value of your car being X - something! lol. If I'm reading this article correctly, then -- pending Governor Brown's signature -- the number of green HOV stickers has been increased to 85,000: http://scvnews.com/2015/06/15/pavleys-incentive-for-plug-in-cars-included-in-budget/

 

Looks like SB-39 got stuck in committee, so Senator Pavley added the language to AB-95 that was just passed.

 

You may not be happy, Fat Fusion, but everyone who was considering a 2016 FFE, 2016 Volt, 2016 ELR, or any other number of PHEVs who were on the fence pending availability of green stickers will be thrilled. From the article: "Thanks to Senator Pavley’s efforts, this proven program will continue – at no taxpayer cost – to put more drivers behind the wheel of cleaner cars, save consumers money, and reduce emissions."

 

Too bad I opted for a 2015 FFE with stickers instead of a 2016 without dealer-ordered stickers. Oh, well... I still love my 2015 even though I don't have the new fancy button controls.

[Blastphemy]

Some other websites have finally picked up this story:

http://www.hybridcars.com/californians-granted-15000-more-green-hov-stickers/

http://insideevs.com/california-surprise-bill-to-bump-hov-green-stickers-15000-passes-assembly/

[Fat Fusion]

It's looking like you may have to suffer the X value of your car being X - something! lol. If I'm reading this article correctly, then -- pending Governor Brown's signature -- the number of green HOV stickers has been increased to 85,000: http://scvnews.com/2015/06/15/pavleys-incentive-for-plug-in-cars-included-in-budget/

 

Looks like SB-39 got stuck in committee, so Senator Pavley added the language to AB-95 that was just passed.

 

You may not be happy, Fat Fusion, but everyone who was considering a 2016 FFE, 2016 Volt, 2016 ELR, or any other number of PHEVs who were on the fence pending availability of green stickers will be thrilled. From the article: "Thanks to Senator Pavley’s efforts, this proven program will continue – at no taxpayer cost – to put more drivers behind the wheel of cleaner cars, save consumers money, and reduce emissions."

 

Too bad I opted for a 2015 FFE with stickers instead of a 2016 without dealer-ordered stickers. Oh, well... I still love my 2015 even though I don't have the new fancy button controls.

 

Only a moron would actually believe that it's a no cost program.  How much are taxpayers on the hook for each tax credit?  

[Blastphemy]

Awww, now don't get all grumpy and defensive because you didn't get your way. You should be happy that 15,000 more people will be able to enjoy the same incentive you wanted to keep only for yourself (and the 69,999 other green sticker recipients). I know you're upset that you'll now be one of 85,000 green sticker owners instead of 70,000, but I'm sure you'll get over having to share your entitlement with others.

 

Perhaps you didn't read the actual text of the bill - there isn't any tax credit or rebate associated with the green sticker program. But I understand that, in your fog of anger, you may have confused the details of the green sticker program with something else. We understand.

[meyersnole]

Can we please not make these posts personal? It is great to discuss the topic of the thread, but it serves no purpose attacking each other.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Only a moron would actually believe that it's a no cost program.  How much are taxpayers on the hook for each tax credit?  

 

 

Awww, now don't get all grumpy and defensive because you didn't get your way. You should be happy that 15,000 more people will be able to enjoy the same incentive you wanted to keep only for yourself (and the 69,999 other green sticker recipients). I know you're upset that you'll now be one of 85,000 green sticker owners instead of 70,000, but I'm sure you'll get over having to share your entitlement with others.

 

Perhaps you didn't read the actual text of the bill - there isn't any tax credit or rebate associated with the green sticker program. But I understand that, in your fog of anger, you may have confused the details of the green sticker program with something else. We understand.

Edited June 20, 2015 at 03:43 AM by meyersnole

[rbort]

 

 

in your fog of anger

 

OMG, LOL!!  Reminds me of Warcraft and the "fog of war".  

 

Thanks for the good laugh!

 

-=>Raja.

[Hybridbear]

Perhaps you didn't read the actual text of the bill - there isn't any tax credit or rebate associated with the green sticker program. But I understand that, in your fog of anger, you may have confused the details of the green sticker program with something else. We understand.

 

Perhaps Fat Fusion was referring to the indirect costs of the program such as adding congestion to the HOV lanes.